Mishhu Question

What Nashoba said.

IC, Nepleslia has no reason to 'play nice' with them, especially given the risks, and the Mishhu themselves aren't known to willingly put themselves in a position of weakness. Even from the Mishhuvurthyar's point of view, they probably have nothing to gain, especially because they have holdings of their own off-map. At their very 'nicest', the Mishhu would shoot at anyone else's ships so that they can be left alone. Like some sullen, angrily smoldering Geth. Even a single one that isn't attacking people and is working with them would likely be thinking about attacking people - and in what ways it could do it - at every single waking moment. Overall, I have to agree with Fred as well.

Having Mishhuvurthar that are amicable in the setting is a really, really big deal. By having something that so sharply contrasts with established lore really does diminish them. This is especially bad for the Mishhu because they've had some consistency problems in the past, where they came off more as large-hams than sentient-monsters in certain instances.

So if Fred writes Mishhu you can negotiate with it's ok, or if one writes a plot with negotiable Mishhu it's ok, but if you write an article with them that isn't in reference to a plot it's diminishing them?

How are you diminishing Mishhu by making an article that gives people evidence that in very rare situations there are potentially equally or more worthwhile things to do when encountering them than blowing them to bits? I don't see why this has to be a zero sum game. I don't see why we can't grow the pie. How is giving evidence of more options with an antagonist cheapening it?

Also, all the "the vast majority wouldn't do X" stuff in a way doesn't mean much because you don't necessarily need the vast majority of Nepleslians and certainly don't need the vast majority of Mishhu to support the idea for it to be feasible.

If anything I see this logic cheapening Mishhu because if we're going to take "90% of X wouldn't do Y" and treat it as 100% then you're basically saying Mishhu can never appear in Yamatai or Nepleslia legally without being instantly killed and thus functionally never appearing. Why turn generalities into absolutes when it can be argued you're hurting roleplay opportunities just as much as you're claiming to be protecting them?

A colony would answer where prisoners go while serving their sentences, whether or not any prisoners live beyond interrogation, where they could go after serving their term and where any free Mishhu could go.

IC, I think Nepleslia has reasons to do this whether you choose to acknowledge them or think they're good. A colony would create a place to protect Mishhu and non-Mishhu from each other and a specific potential default place where prisoners can be placed and potentially create goodwill with a group of people they have defeated which might make those defeated people less likely to attack Nepleslia in the future.

Saying hatred and discrimination trumps everything doesn't sound like all that great a roleplaying aspect to defend from potential diminishing to me.

In real life countries that have defeated others rebuilt them. Sure, you can say they only rebuilt them for their benefit but I sure see a potential benefit to this.

Why is this so dangerous? A low ranking character in a military plot might ask about or suggest negotiation with an enemy? Why is that bad? There's still the chain of command. I don't see one article ruining the initial perception new people or veterans have of all Mishhu, especially when there are different types/generations and factions. Are we going to treat people like they can't grasp these things and that everything isn't all or nothing?

Are "talking with" and "hating" mutually incompatible? I can see how someone who hates another person can make deals which are mutually beneficial, then try to put you 6-feet underground the instant they walk away from the table. A strategic planner might even propose a mutual front against an enemy, hoping both of you will grind each other to pieces and he can clean up.

Someone used a Drow analogy earlier I think, it is something similar, they all hate each other and are trying to deep 6 everyone else, but they do make mutually beneficial deals while at the same time try their best to put a knife in the other guy's back.

This is probably limited to the very rare strategic type thinkers though, the rank and file would probably do as Cadet said and shoot on sight. But in the end, strategic or grunt, their goals are still similar, to wipe you off the face of the galaxy.

We already rounded the issue so I'm going to try and avoid repeating what I said before.

I believe independent Mishhu to be a low profile rarity. I believe it should be kept that way. While I do have plans of my own and do care about the dramatic import of what I'd like to deliver considering the build-up, I don't mind other GMs doing the same. Like Wes did. He introduced them in his plot, and poof, we have a new wiki entry about a colony. Great.

I maintain that to support the rarity of that condition, we ought to leave this element to be introduce within exceptions of the norm; which are often what our plots are.

I do believe that finding and colonizing new worlds for any faction was actually supposed to follow the same scheme. As in, not just planting a flag but try to make a story/an achievement out of it. And most of that really ought to be experienced by players. Missed opportunities have happened in the past, it's not like I'm not speaking of this with some degree of experience too.

If a wiki entry is made of this without really much else except the narrative addition that "Mishhu are here on a Nepleslian world and it's okay", it actually ends up stealing an opportunity roleplayers could have had to discover such situations. Because there can only be so many exceptions before the exceptions just become uncommon "Wow, Independent Mishhu are so rare"; "You kiddin'? There are over here, here, here and here."

Dramatic impacts are important to me. That's why I want people to be careful.

Have to admit, I see the point in Fred's view, if friendly Mish becomes too common, that sort of ruins them as an enemy faction.

Misshu = Non-Hostile Sapients.... Perhaps an individual as we have seen in some plots. But a collective bunch are going to revert to form, power struggles and the like.

The real issue is the scale; it's just too many of them, and without IC precedent that lead up to the event. It isn't just mere 'generalities' that this goes against - there's been nothing to lead up to a colony or planet where they're either allowed or held as prisoner. To have it be canon at this time would be very sudden, unexpected and against IC reason. I agree with Fred that it's ok for individuals, either players or GMs or both, to work on building up to it IC, but to suddenly make it happen with an article like this undermines RP the very same way he pointed out.

Right now, it's better to set the stage for something like this to happen, not actually have it happen.

Nightowl said:

Have to admit, I see the point in Fred's view, if friendly Mish becomes too common, that sort of ruins them as an enemy faction.

Click to expand...

I don't agree with this necessarily. I mean, there's plenty of friendly humans but hostile human factions aren't "ruined" by that. Not every member of a species is going to be on board with a faction. For example, when Hanako was implanted with Mishhu eggs back in the Sakura days, it produced three Mishhuvurthyar who still live in Yamatai.

I think the consensus seems to be that it's okay for individual, named Mishhuvurthyar characters to be exceptions to the "norm" of the evil Mishhuvurthyar archetype, but that making a whole community of them could disrupt that archetype and isn't wanted without some sort of RP plot attached that would build it up. Does that seem like a fair summary to everyone?

*nod*

It would be incredibly odd if a race created for hatred and revenge suddenly became all flowers and sunshine (non-instant version). I suspect massive drug distribution, especially since the last Mish I met suddenly asked me to "Take me to your dealer."