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MQC-1 PDSMG

D

Dark zero_x

Inactive Member
Producer Information
Designer: Sarkar Darkstar
Manufacturer: NAM/private investors
(Suggested) Price: ~600
Red dot (intergated) ~20
mags (10, 20, 32, 40) very


Nomenclature Information
Name: MQC-1
Type: solid, chemical
Models: MCQ-1, MCQ-1MPK, MCQ-1C MCQ-1MTAC
Role: The MCQ-1 has many uses, but was specifically made for the close quarters combat operations onboard Starships, were the power of a battle rifle is need but the compactness of a SMG or pistol is required. being almost fully modular from red dots to PEQ units, silencers and
stocks.
Length: MCQ-1 25.56in (stock extended) 15.6in (folded), MCQ-1MPK 9.2in, MCQ-1C 15in stock extended 10in (folded).
Weight: MCQ-1 4.2lb, MCQ-1MPK 3.4lb, MCQ-1C 3.9lb

Discharge Information
Projection/ammo type: Low impulse anti armor/personel
Firing Mechanism: Roller delayed blow back. fries from closed bolt, spring fed mag.
Caliber: 10x28mm
Effective Range: 150m
Maximum Range: 400m
Minimum Range:0m
Muzzle Velocity: ~1700FPS
Muzzle Blast: quite soundless for a large round minimal muzle flash
Firing Mode(s): Fully Automatic/Semi Auto.
Recoil: Due to low impulse round almost none.



Ammo Description:
Name: 10x28mm low impulse the round it self is the acumulation of centuries of successful ballistics. the 10x28mm (.40) is a low impulse round meaning that it has almost no recoil, causing almost any one to be able to wield and fire the weapon accurately. the round ballistically acts like a cutdown rifle round, with high velocity and penetration, and a pistol, its .40 diameter has incredible stopping power, but with the mating of the two it becomes a formidable foe. it can penetrate most power armor, but the most deadly part of it is that it tumbles after contact, much like the anicent 5.56x45mm. the 5.56 tumble was a fluke with positive results upon contact with soft tissues it would fragment and spin tearing at a victims organscausing maximum damage, but after centuries of study and testing the tumble has been refined and maximized to greater effect. the .40 caliber round is an in between for 9x19mm and .45 APC with the stopping power of the .45 and the amount of rounds of a 9mm it was the perfect go between. so not only dose the round have armor pearceing capabilities but it also causes great harm, with considerable stopping power.
Ammo: 10x28mm (.40)

Damage Descriptiondue to tumble effect it severly damages internal organs. can penitrate armor

Visual Description:compact with verying looks the standard MCQ-1 comes with a slideing stock much like the anicent M-14EBR and the MCQ-1C has a smaller stock and the MPK front end. the MPK model lacks a stock and has a shorter hand grip.
Ammo: 10, 20, 30, and 40 rounds



Weapon Mechanisms:
Safety: Yes, standard fire switch on side of firearm
Fire mode selector: Yes, read above
Weapon Sight: intergrated red dot sight
Attachment Hard points: yes, being modular almost everything is replaceible with current items
Really cool built in thingy: recoil buffer, red dot.
Maintenance Information: Field Maintenance Procedure: keep it clean.
Replaceable Parts and components: almost every part, save frame and mech., is interchangeable with current items


Visual Description: compact SMG it verys on model but all have lover pistol like rail for mounting items, and a RIS rail running the top of the weappon.
 
I do not see how this round can both be 'low impulse' (i.e. low momentum and recoil) but also be huge and high velocity. The last two multiplied equal the first, so if they are large the recoil must be similarly massive.

Also, a round traveling at 1700 FPS is going ~Mach 1.5 and will produce a very large retort from the sonic boom.

On full auto at those muzzle velocities with such a large round this weapon would be extremely hard to handle.
 
On full auto at those muzzle velocities with such a large round this weapon would be extremely hard to handle.
Click to expand...

Like needing an arm-cage so the recoil doesn't compact every bone in your wrist and dislocate every major joint from the wrist down in your arm?
 
I'm no firearms expert, but from what I've gleaned it isn't too far-fetched. Modern assault rifles can reach much greater effective ranges than the MQC using somewhat heavier rounds, though not necessarily at full-auto. He hasn't specified what the bullets are made of, so it's hard to guess the actual numbers. But assuming that it's using metals with roughly the same mass as most modern rounds, then yeah, it would be totally inoperable as a pistol.

Vesp is right in that the description is self-contradictory. For example, tumbling rounds like the NATO one you based it on were noted for their awful penetration ability. They were designed to be lighter, sleeker rounds so they could could travel faster and cause less kickback. On this point, your weapon seems to have an even lower velocity -- nearly half that of the M16 -- meaning it's penetration abilities would be a joke. In it's current state it would certainly not have "incredible stopping power," let alone the ability to penetrate armor at all (again, this depends on the ammunition type you use). You probably could penetrate armor at this velocity if you used much heavier rounds, though the kickback would make aiming and full-auto use nigh impossible.
 
I'll get to this tonight. Fascinating concept, but a lot of this sounds wrong.

Note, however, that the 5.56 x 45 mm round is a very good penetrator -- what it does after it penetrates is anyone's guess (tumbling inside of a target). Also, modern assault rifles actually don't stretch much beyond 300 m for an effective range, if that, and they're using rifle cartridges. This thing, at 10 x 28 mm, sounds like a rifle bullet in a big pistol cartridge, which is probably not the most effective combination.

EDITS: I'll add to this as the night goes on.

1. Stopping power or penetration. You need to choose. This bullet goes too fast and/or is too oddly shaped to have both. Is this half of a spitzer bullet? Is it a pistol bullet? How long is the bullet itself? How deeply is it seated into the case? Why use this round at all, when 10 x 25 mm KZ is basically 10 mm Auto and fucks shit up good?

Right now, without knowing the weight of the bullet, this baby produces the same killing power as a .30-40 Krag in a smaller (but higher-pressure generating) case. That level of power is going to spit-shine modern power armor, not damage them. To even rattle a power armor, you need to get up to about 3,000 METERS/SEC.

2. This low-impulse business works with special recoilless guns, but it doesn't work on handheld rifles and what not. You need to explain how it works to us; a roller-delayed locked receiver block, ala H&K, does not produce the results you're looking for.
 
trust me, look at the 5.7x28mm its bigger than a 5.56, yet has almost HALF the recoil. and no its not the KZ its a tapered round (much like the 5.7) AND we are baseing it off OUR balistics, now this far in the future, I think new propelents would be avaible to use. if you realy want to get down to it the .40 S&W has very light recoil to a large round. I speak from experice here becuse I own a Glock 23C (best pistol ever) if you make the case longer and neck down the top of the round it decreces needed powder, and uses gasses more effcently. to get onto a diffrent subject, the gases use in a fire arm are about 25% is used to propel the round ~5% is used to work the action and the rest (a whole 70%) is expended in a muzzle flash. its defenitly possible in the setting we are in. (oh yeah the 5.56 dose tumble after penitraton. the green tip 5.56 on the other hand dont unless you hit center mass) all I got to say about the stoping power thing is this, im comparing it to a NORMAL SMG round not that its super powerful (any way the .45ACP goes ~750FPS but would knock you on your ass.) I understand some of your arguments (and I didnt know that a 10x28mm was around) and will rework the round to the games likeings, but insted of shooting my idea out of the sky, you could help by CONSTRUTIVE critism. so no flame waring over this. jsut noticed last comment, FN P-90 look it up. not that special.
 
I don't think Doshii was blowing your stuff out of the sky. He's telling you stuff that you might want to listen to, and trying to help. Try not to blow him off. I've seen this forum if the admins don't like someone, you'll know.
 
trust me, look at the 5.7x28mm its bigger than a 5.56, yet has almost HALF the recoil.
Click to expand...

1. That's because it's a pistol round and has less than half the volume for powder. The round's designed for a polymer handgun.

and no its not the KZ its a tapered round (much like the 5.7)
Click to expand...

2. It's a tapered round, or a bottlenecked round? There is a difference (the 5.7 x 28 mm FN is a bottlenecked round).

That raises a bigger question though -- this is a 10 mm round that's bottlenecked; that means the case is even wider than the round. That's a pretty big cartridge.

AND we are baseing it off OUR balistics, now this far in the future, I think new propelents would be avaible to use.
Click to expand...

3. Then say so. But be careful; in the SARP, we really haven't played with chemical propellents. We've kind of just assumed that such propellents couldn't be refined much more, and the interest eventually switched to energy weapons.

if you realy want to get down to it the .40 S&W has very light recoil to a large round. I speak from experice here becuse I own a Glock 23C (best pistol ever)
Click to expand...

4. I own a Glock 17 and I've shot a Glock 20 and 21 on numerous occasions. If you want to claim that .40 S&W is a light recoiling round, do so -- but don't speak from the experience of a compensated gun; that doesn't help us. I personally would argue .40 S&W can have some bite to it, but my friend thinks it doesn't in the gun he uses -- however, if we use, say, a Ruger P94(X?), all of our results might differ.

Remember, there's recoil, and perceived recoil. The original weapon template carried both.

if you make the case longer and neck down the top of the round it decreces needed powder, and uses gasses more effcently.
Click to expand...

5. It also creates higher pressures inside the gun, ensuring the need for a different kind of action. The .30-06 is rarely used in a gun with the kind of piston-driven action of an M4A1 in part because it doesn't generate pressures the same way -- it uses its propellent much more slowly.

Your roller-delayed action isn't going to fly if you make it pistol-sized like that -- you'll arguably need something sturdier. I'm working off the idea that you're using a 10 x 28 mm bottlenecked pistol bullet that's being fired faster than most normal pistol rounds (a 9 x 19 mm Para round goes about 1,200 fps) and we don't know how much it weighs.

Remember -- that 5.7 mm bullet only weighs 23 grains and has a very short range; much shorter and lighter than what you're suggesting with your round.

to get onto a diffrent subject, the gases use in a fire arm are about 25% is used to propel the round ~5% is used to work the action and the rest (a whole 70%) is expended in a muzzle flash. its defenitly possible in the setting we are in.
Click to expand...

6. It might be. We don't know. We need more detail from you about how you're doing it.

all I got to say about the stoping power thing is this, im comparing it to a NORMAL SMG round not that its super powerful (any way the .45ACP goes ~750FPS but would knock you on your ass.)
Click to expand...

7. Stopping power is relative. It is not a proven facet of any ammunition in the world. Some people believe it has to do with mass; others say size; others claim velocity. It's not a science. The .45-caliber Automatic Colt Pistol round does tend to stop people in their tracks -- but so do my 9 mm Para law-enforcement-grade hollowpoints.

What you suggested is a .40-caliber rifle round being fired at relatively slow speeds. If it were a pistol round, I can see stopping power (and a decrease in range). But this is a rifle round -- a chopped-in-half spitzer bullet, is how I take it. That makes me think FN-P90, which isn't known for to stop people. It is known to penetrate body armor, and that's why you need to decide what this round is good for.

I understand some of your arguments (and I didnt know that a 10x28mm was around) and will rework the round to the games likeings, but insted of shooting my idea out of the sky, you could help by CONSTRUTIVE critism. so no flame waring over this. jsut noticed last comment, FN P-90 look it up. not that special.
Click to expand...

The SARP is a community of experts. All of us are experts in something, including you. Wes knows the Army and how to be an administrator; Fred knows strategy and game mastery very well; Yangfan knows how to weave a story and be a good mediator.

I don't know those things. But I know guns. I know them pretty well. So if I seem nitpicky or blunt, I apologize in advance. This is what I know for the SARP, so it is what I take the most care with. I do not want to see your submission's potential misplaced because I was inattentive to it.
 
Yeah, fuckin' server. Try keeping your stuff on a notepad or something. It's pretty much necessary now; ten minutes ago the whole site was fucked.

EDIT: I called your 23C "compensated;" that's my bad. It's the "competition" version, right?
 
it started life as a comped but they are interchangeable but I did havwe lots of experince with the S&W 1004 (10mm auto) so yeah I should have said that I must have sounded like an ass (any way ... ok my internet went down for the last few weeks and I forgot what I was going to say...

oh yeah!

7.7x28 bottelneck better?
also lets say that it uses new propelnts/new recoil system
also alows better use of gasses when fired.
lets go with the short stroke piston with 2 locking lugs.
lets also say that it has the tumble.
 
The caliber, propellents and recoil system might work just fine ... but we still don't know what the purpose of the caliber is. If you want tumbling, then you'll need a much lighter bullet, and I don't know how you'll get that out of 7.7 mm (that's roughly .303).

I think you should start by asking, "Do I want penetration? Or do I want mushrooming?" Then everything else will fall into place.

The short-stroke piston is fine, if a little odd for a traditional SMG. Have you seen this thing before? I just saw it a couple days ago; this kind of action might at least get you the kind of perceived/recoil that you're looking for. Then again, it's using .45 ACP, but I bet with some work it could work for a bigger caliber.

Problem: fieldstripping this fucker will be annoying.

Also, have you consulted with Fian yet? He's the man when it comes to NAM; you should get his go-ahead on this project so you can list NAM as a manufacturer.
 
1. Stopping power or penetration. You need to choose.
Click to expand...

In theory, couldn't he switch between the two with the advanced technology we have available to us?

It wouldn't be amazing in terms of throughput performance but it'd be incredibly useful.



We have the technology.
 
Four things:
1. You cannot have this manufacture this under NAM without the permission of Uso, Tom, or Fian.
2. The Nepleslian currency is the DA, so you may add that to your pricing area.
3. You'll need to have something explaining the development of this weapon if it is being done your character. A couple sentences in an rp post should suffice.
4. Please run your posts through the spell checker. It takes all of five seconds and makes everything so much easier to read.
 
We have the technology, Osakan. But is it worth the cost?

If you want "stopping power," you need a bullet with low penetration. Whether it has a lot of energy behind it isn't a concern; the bullet can be shaped or cut in that will give it the desired effect. But it must have low penetration, or at the least, limited penetration.

You could, theoretically, have a reservoir of liquidized memory metal (nanobots made of lead or whatever?) that could be drawn on to form a certain kind of bullet shape. As long as the bullet was one caliber, it could theoretically be fired from the gun. I don't know how propellent would work ...

Well, wait ... you could build a cartridge that has the nanobots inside of a seperate chamber inside the case, with the powder. Input a command to the cartridge, and volla! The cartridge can form whatever bullet is needed, be it some kind of wadcutter to a spitzer. That's doable.

If that's done though, the cost of 100 rounds of ammunition should be much, much more. Much more. We're talking half as much as the gun, at least, which should also be costing a bit more too.
 
Also keep in mind that puts a limit on the durability and hardness of the projectile, since the nanobots can only manipulate materials up to a certain toughness. I don't think this gun has the bullet energy for that to be a issue (the cost would be the big one, and that a EMP or radiation blast would fry your ammo and render it useless).
 
Yeah he did inform me of this project when he first started and I gave him permission for it. The sub looks fine to me (but hey, I'm no gunsmith), but I have one issue regarding this gun.

it can penetrate most power armor
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For one, I doubt any mere handgun can penetrate the NAM Elemental series Power Armor, or any Elysian or (especially) Yamataian ones either. At most I belive it 'might' go through the outdated Cyclones or Demon but thats about it.

1 KS = 2 DA, very simple.

As for the RP part, it would be great if the designer is a PC with a full fleshed bio, but if its too troublesome then we could just either threat him as an NPC (Which means you can get back to him later, if at all), or the tech can be credited to NAM as a whole.
 
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