Zack
Inactive Member
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[NAM] Epee
- Thread starter Zack
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... When are their plans to submit something that doesn't contain "the controversial NERD drive?"
I meant something that will be mass-produced. Sorry, not thinking. Everything you've submitted so far isn't for mass production.
Also, isn't the Epee a scout in the Wing Commander games? One of them, at least. I swear. Not saying the name is wrong or anything, just can't remember if that's right.
Also, isn't the Epee a scout in the Wing Commander games? One of them, at least. I swear. Not saying the name is wrong or anything, just can't remember if that's right.
It was, I checked.
Or did you mean the mass-producing thing?
Or did you mean the mass-producing thing?
Ah, okay. What about the mass-production thing? I'm just curious.
Moon Doll's Twin
Inactive Member
...25 lightyears per minute?
Seriously, this is pretty much the quintessential example of my issues with Nepleslian equipment getting dramatically overpowered.
If we ignore momentarily the massive Hyperspace speed - something Nepleslia's being allowed to get away with pretty much unkempt - we have the power of the weapons and the fact that, in all honesty, NERD remains a rather overpowered device.
I understand that's not here or now with the NERD. I'm just starting to find myself more and more jaded with the concept of designing. We all of us put a lot of work into our writeups, you no less than anyone else. But as I said, it seems the trick is to post dramatically OP pieces and then grind them down slowly to get away with more.
You insisted that you don't water down your submissions in the last thread I brought this up, and yet every submission you get through is massively powerful AFTER being watered down. It isnt just clarification. It is always full on editing - grinding down from overpowering so as to get away with more.
If Wes wants to approve it, I suppose that's his business. I'm starting to wonder what the point is, though. Balance and canon national capacities seem to mean very little anymore.
Seriously, this is pretty much the quintessential example of my issues with Nepleslian equipment getting dramatically overpowered.
If we ignore momentarily the massive Hyperspace speed - something Nepleslia's being allowed to get away with pretty much unkempt - we have the power of the weapons and the fact that, in all honesty, NERD remains a rather overpowered device.
I understand that's not here or now with the NERD. I'm just starting to find myself more and more jaded with the concept of designing. We all of us put a lot of work into our writeups, you no less than anyone else. But as I said, it seems the trick is to post dramatically OP pieces and then grind them down slowly to get away with more.
You insisted that you don't water down your submissions in the last thread I brought this up, and yet every submission you get through is massively powerful AFTER being watered down. It isnt just clarification. It is always full on editing - grinding down from overpowering so as to get away with more.
If Wes wants to approve it, I suppose that's his business. I'm starting to wonder what the point is, though. Balance and canon national capacities seem to mean very little anymore.
Toshiro
Inactive Member
I also have concerns about the 25 LY/M issue. The consensus is that speed decreases are necessary for military ships, but this seems to fly in the face of that. 25 LY/M is simply ridiculous.
Recommending flat-out rejection. Because I agree with Orion on his other point as well.
Recommending flat-out rejection. Because I agree with Orion on his other point as well.
Cora
Well-Known Member
My, I belive I brought this talking point up before.
[Nam] is making all it's ships with NERD. Powered armor, and spaceships are all being outfitted with this all-in-one drive system.
Limited production of lines non-withstanding, it also means a limited number of NERD systems. Seeing how this is the, what? sixth thing with NERD, it's safe to assume you're ignroing the notion of Limited, Uso.
[Nam] is making all it's ships with NERD. Powered armor, and spaceships are all being outfitted with this all-in-one drive system.
Limited production of lines non-withstanding, it also means a limited number of NERD systems. Seeing how this is the, what? sixth thing with NERD, it's safe to assume you're ignroing the notion of Limited, Uso.
Zack
Inactive Member
25 ly/min is the speed of the DD4 and it is unreasonable to have a scout ship that moves slower than the main attack ship. It is unreasonable for people to keep saying that Nep doesn't have this tech when it clearly does.
If you were willing to say what you think is OP about the NERD I could discuss that with you but don't just sit here and manufacture drama if you don't intend to try and fix things in some way.
If you were willing to say what you think is OP about the NERD I could discuss that with you but don't just sit here and manufacture drama if you don't intend to try and fix things in some way.
I'm Only Dancing
Inactive Member
The DD4 is NDI tech. And I seem to recall it caused a HUGE amount of issue, and I know through dozens of conversations Im not the only one who still considers it to be painfully overpowered.
The DD4 was however approved with that sort of fold speed after a long drawn out discussion on Milky Way v. Kikyo galaxy. It is insofar the only ship approved with a fold speed higher than the Sakura. I cant speak for the approvers here, but I will say this.
If you start approving multiple ships with that kind of speed, it sets precedent. And it will either start an arms race, or cause people to leave, or both.
Actually, hell. Precedent has already been set by the DD4, since really all anyone needs to do to technically justify uberspeed from an IC standpoint is wave their hand and say "NDI". Can it exist IC? Probably. Should it? I think Ive made my view on that perfectly clear.
Zack
Inactive Member
Perhaps if I write in that it becomes more unstable the faster it moves?
I could limit the safe speed of travel to the 6ish range where most other ships are but it would still be able to keep up with the DD4 which would allow it to seem like a realistic scout ship. Like I said I think it is unreasonable to assume that a scout ship would be made to move slower than the other ships in the fleet.
I could limit the safe speed of travel to the 6ish range where most other ships are but it would still be able to keep up with the DD4 which would allow it to seem like a realistic scout ship. Like I said I think it is unreasonable to assume that a scout ship would be made to move slower than the other ships in the fleet.
I'm Only Dancing
Inactive Member
Id normally agree.
The problem is, the 'other ships' you are referring to move about three times faster than any other existing scout ship anywhere, and the only reason I can really comprehend for that is that the GMs gave up on trying to argue it down to reasonable rates.
This is perhaps a pet peeve of mine, but I think NDI tech really detracts from this setting. I like the technology in context, but on SA I dont see it make much use other than being massively, MASSIVELY too powerful and causing issues like this very one we discuss right now.
The problem is, the 'other ships' you are referring to move about three times faster than any other existing scout ship anywhere, and the only reason I can really comprehend for that is that the GMs gave up on trying to argue it down to reasonable rates.
This is perhaps a pet peeve of mine, but I think NDI tech really detracts from this setting. I like the technology in context, but on SA I dont see it make much use other than being massively, MASSIVELY too powerful and causing issues like this very one we discuss right now.
Zack
Inactive Member
You want to complain about NDI tech when Yamatai will go around and make something that does the same thing only with a 10ly range?
And seriously, what is so bad about having fast ships? Plots get to be moved around more quickly and I can not remember any time when someone's playing experience has been ruined because someone's ship moves a few ly/min faster than someone else's.
In the mean time I'm going to go back and re-write the FTL stuff.
Edit: FTL changed to maximum safe and a maximum speed. I also wrote in that the NERD's weapon function can't be used, mainly because I only wanted one weapon on the ship and because I forgot to include it in the original point cost.
And seriously, what is so bad about having fast ships? Plots get to be moved around more quickly and I can not remember any time when someone's playing experience has been ruined because someone's ship moves a few ly/min faster than someone else's.
In the mean time I'm going to go back and re-write the FTL stuff.
Edit: FTL changed to maximum safe and a maximum speed. I also wrote in that the NERD's weapon function can't be used, mainly because I only wanted one weapon on the ship and because I forgot to include it in the original point cost.
I'm Only Dancing
Inactive Member
Yamatai tops at 20 LY/min, which to me is really too much. I cant do a thing about that, but Id like to.
Everyone likes being fast. But this setting has a nice syndrome of "so fast its really goddamn stupid". This is, of course, not your fault, but submissions like this certainly dont help it. Why, WHY, does every ship need to be able to travel across the entire known IC universe in under 4 minutes?
The best thing that ever happened to this setting was the halt on super-weapons and uber-speeds. It came too late, but it was a massive improvement to what was happening. Submissions like this (and the DD4, and other recent NAM subs) threaten to start us up all over again with that kind of thing.
A playing experience isnt ruined by one ship being faster than another. But right now I think the only genuinely interesting plotship would probably by Yggdrasill, because its the only one that cant span the entire universe in the bat of an eye. The DD4 can travel across known space in 3 minutes, the Sakura in 4. The Crataeis in 11 or so, the average military vessel in 10 to 15. Its sheer mental masturbation having speeds like this on everything, and exceeding them as NAM seems so keen on doing just goes to the point of shallow, pedantic pissing-contests.
Everyone likes being fast. But this setting has a nice syndrome of "so fast its really goddamn stupid". This is, of course, not your fault, but submissions like this certainly dont help it. Why, WHY, does every ship need to be able to travel across the entire known IC universe in under 4 minutes?
The best thing that ever happened to this setting was the halt on super-weapons and uber-speeds. It came too late, but it was a massive improvement to what was happening. Submissions like this (and the DD4, and other recent NAM subs) threaten to start us up all over again with that kind of thing.
A playing experience isnt ruined by one ship being faster than another. But right now I think the only genuinely interesting plotship would probably by Yggdrasill, because its the only one that cant span the entire universe in the bat of an eye. The DD4 can travel across known space in 3 minutes, the Sakura in 4. The Crataeis in 11 or so, the average military vessel in 10 to 15. Its sheer mental masturbation having speeds like this on everything, and exceeding them as NAM seems so keen on doing just goes to the point of shallow, pedantic pissing-contests.
Derran Tyler
Inactive Member
Another bash the DD4 thread?
Confederate inter-phased drives are that fast because the galaxy the NDI is based out of is many magnitudes larger in terms of what is colonized and what is not.
However, to rectify the problem - I will edit the DD4's design with a 'speed governor' that limits the speed of the destroyer's fold drive to a more reasonable speed.
Happy now?
Confederate inter-phased drives are that fast because the galaxy the NDI is based out of is many magnitudes larger in terms of what is colonized and what is not.
However, to rectify the problem - I will edit the DD4's design with a 'speed governor' that limits the speed of the destroyer's fold drive to a more reasonable speed.
Happy now?
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