• If you were supposed to get an email from the forum but didn't (e.g. to verify your account for registration), email Wes at stararmy@gmail.com or talk to me on Discord for help. Sometimes the server hits our limit of emails we can send per hour.
  • Get in our Discord chat! Discord.gg/stararmy

[Nepleslia] Primus Battleship

I am looking at this and it seems to me that no thought was even put into it. I get no emotion...I have no real feeling that this ship is really wanted. This Article feels like it was just slapped together to fill a niche.

After reading it I had more questions about this ship then answers.


An Example of what I am speaking of is "Key Features

The Primus has two features: its heavy armor and numerous powerful guns."

This is a Battle Ship.

Heavy armor and powerful guns are kind of implied. Key Features would be like some new fancy technology peace, or luxurious interiors, a new kind of shield or engines.
 
Also, the weapons list The Primus has a simple job: be the most powerfully armed and heavily armored warship wherever it is.

Twin multiphase cannon turrets: 8, SDR 2-4
Quadruple plasma lance turrets: 20, SDR 4
NAM Twin Plasma Turret: 20, SDR 3
NAM Massed Positron Array: 30, SDR 2
Heavy Penetrating Vulcan: 40, DR 1
NAM Curbstomper Mark II Torpedo System: 6, DR Variable
NAM Extended Rack Missile System: 72, DR Variable

Completely violates the DR system we have in place. Rule of thumb is you can't have more SDR then what the ship has on its hull going in one direction at anytime.
 
If that is so I see multiple ships needing revising to conform to said policies. Which I am having trouble finding. However this has not stopped other vessels from being approved. Beyond that I'm finding myself in agreement with Ira regarding some creative faults.

But the big thing that leaps out at me is the Propulsion Statistics. Usually they're on the page, not linked to another article. Also, range wise this vessel won't be getting very far at a paltry Forty-Five Lightyears. Is it meant to stay close to home?
 
Ira said:
This is a Battle Ship.

Heavy armor and powerful guns are kind of implied. Key Features would be like some new fancy technology peace, or luxurious interiors, a new kind of shield or engines.
Click to expand...

Key Features are not "New" features. Key Features are the selling points of the article itself. There is no new fancy technology listed here because there is no need for new fancy technology, or new kinds of shields or engines, because the ones we use currently are fine by our standards. And our interiors are not what one would call luxurious. It's a dreadnought, not a cruiseliner. Yamatai or the Elysians might fancy paintings lining the halls of their ship interior, but Nepleslia doesn't follow that sort of design aspect, and if a GM wished to, he could modify the ship to his own liking.

In this particular case, the Primus' key features are heavy armor and powerful guns. In other words, if you want something with heavy armor and powerful guns, arguably the best Nepleslia has to offer, you would want to use the Primus. And that was the intention, if what I gleaned from the About the Ship section is correct.


I don't think I understand the complaint here. I haven't seen this "rule of thumb" in any ship creation article, but the weapons on the Primus are spread out across the ship; the article states that the Primus' main method of attack is broadside, not just forward-facing guns, and weapon systems are situated evenly on both port and starboard sides. All of these weapons do not face a single direction. Is that what your worry was?


The Primus follows regular Nepleslian propulsion statistics; it makes sense to link those statistics, as that seems to be the trend rather than constantly writing out the system descriptions and numbers.

45ly actually encompasses all of the systems in Nepleslia from any given system point. You can reach the farthest reaches of the Colonial Expansion from Nepleslia Core with 45ly. I don't think it needs to be able to go farther; it's not an exploratory ship.

Although I am not 100% certain, I imagine Sigma wanted a drawback to the larger, heavily armed and armored Primus to be a limited range. It can still make jaunts beyond the Nepleslian systems, but requires planning and preparation to do so.
 
The "rule of thumb" is that regardless of how many guns you put on a ship, anything more than twice the ship's SP is not counted. So, for example, if the ship has 25 SP, the maximum DR is 50 against one target in one turn.

I agree with Ira that this feels uninspired and the lack of art is a big part of that. In the submission form in the OP, it says the faction requires art. So where is it? Thanks Ira for being brave and saying something.

The section between Ship Systems and Armored Hull and Hull Integrated Systems is empty. Most of the other sections could use some more beef to them. We want this to be something people can easily use in the RP.
 
Wes said:
The "rule of thumb" is that regardless of how many guns you put on a ship, anything more than twice the ship's SP is not counted. So, for example, if the ship has 25 SP, the maximum DR is 50 against one target in one turn.
Click to expand...

In that case, seeing as this is classified as a Battleship, which, according to the Damage Rating wiki pages, means its SP is a base 50, as heavy armored modifies at a 1.0 rate. So, by the rule of thumb, it can have 100 DR of attack at any giving point/turn.

A little time on a calculator, and:

Twin multiphase cannon turrets: 8, SDR 2-4 (24 for the sake of addition)
Quadruple plasma lance turrets: 20, SDR 4 (80)
NAM Twin Plasma Turret: 20, SDR 3 (60)
NAM Massed Positron Array: 30, SDR 2 (60)
Heavy Penetrating Vulcan: 40, DR 1 (40)
NAM Curbstomper Mark II Torpedo System: 6, DR Variable (24 for the sake of addition)
NAM Extended Rack Missile System: 72, DR Variable (NAM minimissiles do not do ship-class damage, so 0)

For all guns firing at the same time, it adds up to 288 damage "in one turn".

Keep in mind, however, that the weapons on this ship are designed and placed in 3 direction; the fore, port and starboard. Divided evenly (assuming the guns are divided evenly; I'm just going on assumption here), it's under the 100 DR allowance at any given point when going ship to ship. Likewise, the Primus cannot bring all its weapons to bear on a single target; only a third of its total guns, at most.

For this sort of design, though, you'll want Sigma's actual input, not mine. I asked Sigma for a big bruiser, and he delivered it to me; the specifics of that design I leave up to him.

Wes said:
I agree with Ira that this feels uninspired and the lack of art is a big part of that. In the submission form in the OP, it says the faction requires art. So where is it? Thanks Ira for being brave and saying something.
Click to expand...

I actually thought there WAS art for this at one point. Will have to wait for Sigma's answer. I know he showed me a basic rendered ship prior to submitting this.

Wes said:
The section between Ship Systems and Armored Hull and Hull Integrated Systems is empty. Most of the other sections could use some more beef to them. We want this to be something people can easily use in the RP.
Click to expand...

Maybe I'm mistaken... but in this article, there isn't anything between Ship Systems and Armored Hull and Hull Integrated Systems. Ship Systems is the category and Armored Hull and Hull Integrated Systems is the first article under that category. What is missing?

And while I agree that descriptions are a bit bare-bones, I thought we were trying to lean our submissions towards heavily using wiki links rather than writing out unique descriptions? In fact, I'm positive that this was the direction we were told to take in regards to things like ship systems and such.

If we want to forgo that, I'm fine with it, but it would be nice to know which sections actually need their own unique flavor text as opposed to referring to the basic starship component pages we made for this purpose.
 
I got beaten to the punch D:

Anywho; looking at this article I must agree with what is being said here.

The main header, the one at the top; does seem rather bare-bones and really doesn't tell us much about the ship other than it is a 'dreadnaught'

It's also missing a history section (which is part of the template) so that is a black mark right now.

DR looks to me to be a bit 'too' high, although admittedly I need to check something before I can really comment much more on that.

All in all, it does feel like this article needs more work.
 
Me and Sigma still need an answer to what we are expected to put in ship components. A long time ago, each article had its ship components uniquely written, sometimes copy-pasted but oftentimes unique to that particular ship.

This changed a bit back to what we are supposedly still doing, which is just linking standard ship component links instead of unique written articles for each individual system. It is my understanding that we are still supposed to do this and it has not reverted back.

I'm going to need to know which parts of the article actually need to be written out and described uniquely, as opposed to linking articles.
 
I am just remarking on the fact that Key Features are something of note.

This is SARP. All of the ships have SUPER ARMOR WITH MASSIVE GUNS SPITTING DEATH ACROSS SPACE AND TIME!

Key features are like

Modular turret mounted Gauss Cannons weapons.
Gartagen Missiles deployment.
Turret mounted XRASER weapons
Advanced communications suite
Expanded Command and Control systems
Hyperfold Drive.
Thick armor
Ablative armor



Things that set the ship apart from the others in its line.


Now. I am not trying to shut this down, I am merely trying to help. So I will say this The ship's name is Primus.

That is a very powerful Latin word which means PRIME

1. of the first importance; demanding the fullest consideration: a prime requisite.
2.
of the greatest relevance or significance: a prime example.
3.
of the highest eminence or rank: the prime authority.

^^ That is a very clear cut definition.

So I am challenging this article to be PRIME. This ship has a good powerful name. I think the article needs to reflect all of the definitions presented here. That does not mean lets max out the guns on it. We have lots of guns. I want to know what makes this ship prime. What is it like living on it. Why was it created, by whom, a significant engagement where it was the sole reason for a victory. Sorry for being preachy guys...I saw the word Primus used.
 
@ Wes:
Contains New art? Not yet, artist is busy
Click to expand...
. If you are find my work uninspiring, please read Yamatai's own Sharie and Yamato articles. They just list everything as bullet points. Take away the artwork and you'll see that I wrote more. I acknowledge this can be improved upon (which is why I submitted it here for review), but Yamatai's comparable warships are no great shakes either. As part of the titular faction, shouldn't they be of the godly inspiring level you seek?

So rather than just saying that it needs work, its not good cos there's no artwork, etc etc, please be more specific in your requests. By your own stated standard, my article (artwork aside) is better than the Yamataian Sharie and Yamato as I at least have semi-unique paragraphs as opposed to a bullet point list.

@ Kyle: I consider "About the Ship" to be the same thing as History. As a Historian, I see no difference between the two phrases so I just lump the two sections together. I don't follow the template 100% so it won't be where you assume it to be. I dislike the template and prefer to make my own modifications to it. You will find that this has been a pattern in my starship submissions for quite a while.

From said template about the Header:
Code: 
<REQUIRED: One or two concise sentences that give an overview of what the ship is>

From the Yamataian Sharie's Header:
Code: 
The Sharie-class is a large battleship used by the Star Army of Yamatai. It is built by Ketsurui Fleet Yards and replaces the Yuumi-class Battleship and Chiharu-class Flagship.

From the Gartagen Prosecutor's Header:
Code: 
Produced in YE 32 the prosecutor is the largest dedicated warship used by the Gartagen Union Solar Navy.

What is wrong with my header, Kyle?
 
The Header on the Primus has me...some what confused. Is it a Dreadnought? Is it a Battleship? Both designations are considered unique(Dreadnoughts are usually bigger, more carrier/battleship hybrids, and are very large.

The Header mentions both. As I said earlier when I read the article I ended up with more questions then I had answers.
 
I see a historical section was added so that fixes that problem. Regardless of how we feel about the templates, it is still a requirement, we have to follow them. Things need to be uniform to make it easier for people to not get so confused.

Also, the problem with your header is that it doesn't explain ENOUGH of the ship. Below is what I feel the header should have, as it gives an overview of what the ship is, who designed it, and when it was introduced:

Code: 
The Primus-class battleship, also known as the Primus-class Dreadanught, is one of [[nepleslia:democratic_imperium_of_nepleslia|Neplesia]]'s largest capital class vessels that serves the role of an anti-starship platform. It was designed by [[nepleslia:nepleslian_arms_and_munitions]] and introduced into the [[nepleslia:navy|NSN]] in [[:ye 35]].
 
And I just want to point out that part of the submission rules (4I) specifically says that older submissions are not a valid argument for why a new submission should be okay the way it is.

Just because other submissions aren't up to snuff, you want to work down to that level? Make this submission better, and make those other ships look bad in comparison. That's how you justify things like the DR ratings.
 
The About Section is blank, both the Sharie and Yamato have three paragraphs which provide more basic information about the ship and its purpose.

Some additional details would help, the Appearance does not mention anything about where they are placed, how many, etc.

Does Nepleslia have a standard color scheme? If so it should be mentioned in the appearance, what about the Flag is it on the hull and if so where?

At this point these are the only details I can see that are necessary, the absence of art is another matter.
 
Posting from my tablet here. I will be in a better position to comment once I am home from my grandparents and can get some time on my computer. I have received some PMs I need to address. Please be patient until then. Thank you.
 
Approved.

But please try to improve on it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Menu
Log in
Register
Cookies are required to use this site. You must accept them to continue using the site. Learn more…