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New Species: Ottyo

CadetNewb

Well-Known Member
Uh-huh. Yeah, I know, I know. We already got quite a few in SARP. Still, here I am, putting my idea forward because I honestly believe my creation here will come in handy and add to Star Army in a meaningful way. And no, this isn't going to be another playable faction. Hell no. Another one of those will only risk further thinning us out. Instead, it's a faction I hope players will take delight in fighting against, and GMs will have fun scheming with. Hopefully, they'll start off with the Iromakuanhe and if people like them, move on to the rest of SARP. (And the universe! Ack! Just kidding.)

They're far from done, so for now, just the species by itself so I can get some input. Keep in mind, I made them this way specifically so that they are unattractive to humans and so appear much more hostile.

https://wiki.stararmy.com/doku.php?id=species:ottyo

Again, I can't help but say that they're far from complete, but that's not going to stop people from poking around the rest of the race. Still, keep in mind that for now, this approval thingy here is focused on the species only.

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7/23/10

Currently, this next part that I'd like feedback on looks somewhat plain, so I'd like to know what you guys think would fit well here or what's needed.

https://wiki.stararmy.com/doku.php?id=ottyo:culture
 
Can you say “bad timing”, bro? Ah well. ;)

I remember our brain pan session about these guys, although I also remember being so out of it at the time I thought it was Stovaa who was cooking these guys up afterwards. o~o

Well, from information I remember, that you haven't released here, 58.6 billion is way too much for that kind of lifestyle, consider that Earth is currently supporting 13 billion, and is nearing the edge of it's capacity.

Also, you explained how these guys looked a lot better when we talked, there are a lot of long words here, unless you're writing a university paper, it's best to use simple words for poor Joe's like me. ><
 
Yeah, It's 'bad timing' alright. But for me, that's a good thing believe it or not. This thing is still under construction, and I'm more after opinions on what people would want in new bad guys than getting this all approved right now. Wes suggested I put it here if I wanted feedback, and here I put it. So, for anyone else reading this, please give a reply, and tell me what you like in your evil empire today!

Sorry. I couldn't help myself.

Ok. Population concern. I picked 58.6 billion with some thought. At 13 Billion or so today, we are nearing our capacity as you said. But that's only with our current technology level. With stuff from a more advanced civilization than ourselves, you can expect to fit more people onto the surface of a planet. But that still does not explain 58 billion. Now, imagine how squished together they are. Oh, and they're living underground.

Obviously, the government will spend money to keep the people happy despite the fact that they're living underground in heavily populated areas. You're in a sardine can and you're brainwashed to the point that you might as well be saying 'Hail Hitler!'. But its a very nice sardine can. I was hoping this would come off as insidiously efficient. Do you have any ideas? I'd like to hear them Jimmy.
 
I am sorry, there are too many blocks of text to the point that it's like trying to read the constitution of independence.

I suggest making a whole lot of header dividers so to make it smaller bite sized reading, and easier to find part of the race they were looking for.
 
Yes, they will be using a form of high density apartment or condo complex, but I don't want the whole scene to look too cookie cutter either. I'd get boring for players to fight in. I intend for everything a person could want to be within walking distance.

In urban PA combat taking place in an underground Ottyo city, players could end up smashing through the wall of a concourse and end up fighting in a hospital. Next, they could fall through a few stories of the hospital only to drop through it's bottom floor and into the upper story of a mall or supermarket.

Yeaaaaaaahh...

I spaced out the thing in hopes it helps and tried out those header dividers. I hope it looks better and is a bit easier to read.
 
Jimmy said:
Can you say “bad timing”, bro? Ah well. ;)

I remember our brain pan session about these guys, although I also remember being so out of it at the time I thought it was Stovaa who was cooking these guys up afterwards. o~o

Well, from information I remember, that you haven't released here, 58.6 billion is way too much for that kind of lifestyle, consider that Earth is currently supporting 13 billion, and is nearing the edge of it's capacity.

Also, you explained how these guys looked a lot better when we talked, there are a lot of long words here, unless you're writing a university paper, it's best to use simple words for poor Joe's like me. ><

We still haven't reached 7 billion yet... where'd you get 13 from?
 
I don't keep track of census data, but the number does not deminish the message. Why'd ya quote tha whole st8/\/\3nt?
 
Trying to keep this from becoming derailed here, how do they 'look' to you? Any suggestions? Comments? Criticism? Is it a bit easier to read now?

I'd really like feedback before I get a commission here.
 
CadetNewb said:
I'd really like feedback before I get a commission here.
The best feedback I can provide is, "Hold your horses and wait until they're actually approved before you go and get art."

Getting art without approval could have bad results and immediately has bad effects, such as adding pressure to approving the race just so we don't waste the art and feel bad about it later.

No one, including the tech mods, wants to be Shanghaied into that.
 
Alright, my incredibly talented and perfectly formed brains as popped some chemical's and fizzed a bit and determined that quarters is real tight for these guys if the planet is to remain habitable.

Living space:
These guys gotta by used to living real tight, you'll probably find families living in small units, bed sharing, cost cuts like that. Luxuries are likely to be in the public domain, and houses are probably going to delapidated in order to aviod any show of wealth to steal.

Minimal resources per individual:
Each group, or family is given a pool of resources, this is radically different from our system in real life at the moment. Technology and luxuries will be spread among many people, you'll probably find things like laundry and board games are communal affairs. Computers will be much rarer too, probably only used for work.

A sustainable economy:
Technology such as geothermal powerplants, solar energy, and other forms of sustainable energy sources would be mandatory. Fusion would probably only be used for the major industrial areas, not living space. The reduced demand by minimal resources wil probably allow a large industrial sector cover most of the populations needs, although dealing with all that trash is going to be a nightmare.

Save the trees:
The ecosystem is a sometimes precarious balance between oxygen production, and oxygen use. Other factors also apply, but you'll probably find that many areas of their planet maintain healthy amounts of growth, and their oceans would be quite stable. Otherwise you'll probably find a rather large kill-over would happen, and the species is maintained by extracting oxygen from water like a submarine. Their recycling tech is probably top-notch too.

All these factors, combined with the underground living space you mention would maybe support a LOT of human life, these guys will have different oxygen and atmospheric requirements in order to stay healthy, but these factors probably won't tilt the scales more than a few billion.

Of course, I'm no expert on the subject. But depending on planet size and all that jazz, these pointers should push the scales towards the numbers you seek. I still reccomend drastically cutting the current estimate however.
 
Doshii Jun said:
CadetNewb said:
I'd really like feedback before I get a commission here.
The best feedback I can provide is, "Hold your horses and wait until they're actually approved before you go and get art."

Getting art without approval could have bad results and immediately has bad effects, such as adding pressure to approving the race just so we don't waste the art and feel bad about it later.

No one, including the tech mods, wants to be Shanghaied into that.

Thanks plenty for the advice. The only reason why I wished to get art so soon was that I thought it was necessary to have the images in order to even be considered for approval. I had seen Ira obtain art before even being approved, and assumed that was the norm.

And Jimmy? I'm impressed. You've managed to figure out a good portion of what I had in mind, though, the most surprising things you've still haven't found.

On a side note, how did you get derailed again? I wanted more feedback on their physical appearance. Physically, would you, a player, love to hate them? Love to fight them? Love to kill them?

Maybe I should take the population number away just so you won't pay so much attention to it. :twisted:
 
Oh...jeez, I didn't even know I got a reply here. Sorry about that. Well, I decided to settle on the physical appearance, since no one was pointing out that they didn't like it or liked it.

And there's an addition to the original post now. I'd appreciate it if I could get feedback on how the culture looks. I'm not sure it's giving off the right feel that I'm aiming for. Most likely, I'll have to add to it either way.
 
Ok CadetNoob


1. I personally think one way to make an "bad guy" race exiting is to not make it have a bizarre/impossible culture but instead be race that exploits the cultural or technological weaknesses of good guys.

Recently Exhack did a expose on the Iroma, which I recorded on a whim. Here is the pad-->http://piratepad.net/k95IoR9DCp.
In the pad is the line:
19:29]<Exhack>One of the main issues, though, is that there is no middle ground between saturation and deprivation. The outer system colonies tend to be impoverished hotbeds that cultivate periodic insurrection by the people who want to leave and colonize other systems.
[19]<Exhack>But can't afford MASC Drives.
If possible it would be interesting to see the bad guys bring this internal conflict for the Iroma to the for front of the players mind. Thus they are not only having to battle the bad guys, but having to battle themselves internally as well as they search for meaning.

2. This suggestion may be out of place becuase I don't know Uso, Wes, or Fred plan with the NMX; however, I think that this race should be at least a some point allies with the NMX to make things simplier and easier for people. Fred do you see anything
 
Here are is some positive things I noticed:

Religion is taboo, much disliked and blamed for prior conflicts in history; it is spurned and spat on. Despite this, their roots are remembered as a mistake not to repeat.
Good job on making them anti-religious especially since fascism and religion conflict with each other as shown here on wikipedia:
Wikipedia/Fascism said:
One theory is that religion and fascism could never have a lasting connection because both are a "holistic weltanschauung" claiming the whole of the person.[293] Along these lines, Yale political scientist, Juan Linz and others have noted that secularization had created a void which could be filled by a total ideology, making totalitarianism possible,[322][323] and Roger Griffin has characterized fascism as a type of anti-religious political religion.

Also it is an interesting common language you choose CadetNewb ^^. I especially like the example you gave in the translation section of the article.

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Things to work on or improve:
As newcomers to the galactic community, they are xenophobic, and fully expect to fight off anyone who rivals or surpasses them in technology, especially if such societies have had previously imperialistic pasts.
Cadet I do think xenophobia allows your race to definitely be a plausible enemy to a lot of races in SARP; however, based on watching the SMX transition to the NMX last year, I think xenophobia in SARP has to be carefully used by GMs or else it will be counterproductive. Since I lack experience in villainy I defer to our local evil overlord Fred for his input on Xenophobia. Fred what do you think of CadetNewb's race? Furthermore Fred are their any suggestions you can think to give CadetNewb to help with his race to be bad guys in SARP?
 
https://wiki.stararmy.com/doku.php?id=ottyo:culture
Often, this language is used by members of other species who have become acclaimed among Ottyo, acclimated and live with them, or have frequent contact with them.

Umm... Since they Ottyo are Xenophobic... they really wouldn't acclimate to other races, instead they assimilate them.
In fact the only time a truly facist government will make a fair alliance with another ethnic nation is when both nations have a common enemy of rest of Europe like the Axis Powers did during WWII. Although for the Axis power, it was more than just a common hatred of America or Europe. German and Japan were mainly able make an alliance thanks to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German-Japanese_relations.



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https://wiki.stararmy.com/doku.php?id=ottyo:philosophy

Looking at the philosophy article, I think it looks good so far CadetNewb; however, since the Ottyo government is facist; you also need to add to this article some points about nationalism and the Ottyo's superiority complex

Infact CadetNewb, take a look at page 11 of Social constructions of nationalism in the Middle East. I think they author does a better job of explaining nationalism in this sort paragraph than wikipedia does. Specifically pay attention to this quote:
Scholars who focus on the meaning systems that generate and interpret nationalism emphasize especially the role of culture in producing the spectrum of nationalism. Ernest Gellner identifies homogeneity, literacy, and anonymity as the traits of nationalism where men profess political loyalty to a cutlure, often transmitted through education. The sense of solidarity, common culture, and nation consciousness often defines the element that gradually bind a community of people into a nation.
...
Even though the organization elements with which these nationalism take shape are not extensively discussed in and of themselves, all the scholar also take notice of the philanthropic and secret societies, and political parties that help reproduce nationalisms

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In general, the ethics Ottyo go by are directly controlled by the state; it's interpretation and common understanding of is manipulated by the government.
Good job CadetNewb about mentioning that both ethics of a fascist society is control by that state. In fact, often time the state will use education and media to control people's ethical values and even philosophy as it mentions on wikipedia.

https://wiki.stararmy.com/doku.php?id=ottyo:ethics
The Ottyo ethics article you wrote is also a good start like the philosphy article. In fact when you are talking about:
Though it is generally unacceptable to partake in what is considered a cruel and unusual action, it may be justified if there is a direct benefit to the group
it is interest to see how the concept of "direct benefit to the group" parallels fundamental principle of Ulitarnism. I am not sure how much Fascism and Utilitarianism agree, but its interesting to think about a possibility of Facist Spock. Also The Inter-species part has definite parallels to real Facist foreign policy. (Although the Nazi's where actually socialist... so Facist Spock really is a stretch XD)

One thing that I did find, is that you should probably go into more detail is about the Intra-species Ethics. Specifically, the idea of the government enforces ethical principles and the concept of eugenics in this article has a name is Facism. Its called Social Interventionism


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https://wiki.stararmy.com/doku.php?id=ottyo:culture
Finally going back to the culture article, I found something odd about education part.
Throughout the entire regimen, loyalty to the state, and brainwashing in general, is implemented with a high success rate overall.

A modern futurist fascist leaders don't sell their education to the people as state-controlled education or brainwashing, since those are tropic words that would send off alarm bells in the intellectuals, which would lead to protests and eventually Anti-intellectualism and the fall of the government. Instead in futurist fascism, you appeal to be people by calling it a state funded "no child left behind" or mandatory public school system with seperations based on eugenics, intellect, and academic scores.
Therefore Instead of explicitly admitting they use education for their own brainwashing propaganda, The government says it "actively works to educate all childern to the greatest possible amount so that every child become future model citizen working their hardest for the state, family, and friends.
 
Lets see...where to start?

Originally, the Ottyo were to be very similar to the Iromakuanhe in terms of technology in that a lot of biotech is used. However, the thing that would set the two apart the most is their mindsets. I basically summarized it as the Iroma being the dreamers, and on the other hand, the Ottyo as those who no longer dream. Since Ottyo are Fascists (which may be in turn argued as a different strand of socialist) they have a tendency to think more of their groups and glorious nations instead of individuals. I planned for the Ottyo to wage war as an ends of itself in a manner of speaking, using it to prevent stagnation, thus leading them into conflict with the Iromakuanhe. Yes, they would make use of the rebellious colonists, but that ties more into the nationalistic views that they hold, which I'll jump into a bit later.

The Xenophobia's been done too much, yes, and the words chosen put too much emphasis on it, making it come off to strong. I edited that to try and tone it down, and make it come from a more logical perspective. As for the acclimating and assimilating thing in the language section, I fixed that up a bit. The reason why I originally used acclaimed was to point out that even they can have their respect won.

Ok, now back to nationalism. It is because of their nationalistic views that the Ottyo would even consider using rebellious Iroma against the main core world Iroma. From their point of view, if a species fails to unify or stay that way, it is most likely weak. Since they also have the policy of 'beating the crap out of you and then putting you into a cage so you'll look nice when the neighbors come in and stay well fed and cared for for the rest of your life' they will use the lack of national unity as a justification for such treatment. The contain and preserve thing I mean. And I added that in too.

As for their superiority complex, I put that up in the psychology section. And about Fascist Spock...Yeah. Pretty much. With these guys, I wanted to take one of the more irrational and arguably disgusting things we've ever came up with (fascism) and take it to a logical extreme. Here, we should now see something that someone has created to specifically keep the people pacified while simultaneously allowing for lots of war/loss of life and so on.

And education's been clarified.

You have no idea how much I appreciate this. Do you think I missed out on anything else?
 
On the subject of the art, I did obtain art before approval because I was told "You need art for approval.

I also read it in the rules that "Art is needed for approval."
 
I see. I'll probably hold off on images unless it's well received or something, or if everything else checks out. Words are cheap in comparison if you consider how many a picture's worth.
 
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