What's new
Star Army

Star ArmyⓇ is a landmark of forum roleplaying. Opened in 2002, Star Army is like an internet clubhouse for people who love roleplaying, art, and worldbuilding. Anyone 18 or older may join for free. New members are welcome! Use the "Register" button below.

Note: This is a play-by-post RPG site. If you're looking for the tabletop miniatures wargame "5150: Star Army" instead, see Two Hour Wargames.

  • If you were supposed to get an email from the forum but didn't (e.g. to verify your account for registration), email Wes at [email protected] or talk to me on Discord for help. Sometimes the server hits our limit of emails we can send per hour.
  • Get in our Discord chat! Discord.gg/stararmy
  • 📅 October and November 2024 are YE 46.8 in the RP.

[OOC] SAINT Medals; Titles and details

mizunoyoroko

mizunoyoroko

Inactive Member
So, here's the idea. We take the existing medals and rewrite them to have a separate meaning to members of SAINT. This way operatives who work in SAINT deserve some form of recognition but I'm not sure that the standard medal system is really appropriate, nor is it fair to them. The medals would have a double meaning, to all not in SAINT they would default to their original meaning (which would make sense for operatives that operate in cells based on ships), while among their own they would have a different meaning altogether. The medal itself will be no different.

As an aside, perhaps the "Secret mission" medal could be awarded as a warning to operatives who performed poorly. Another note, these medals most likely would not be awarded to non-operatives. Those that serve in desk-jobs or positions where medal awards aren't appropriate wouldn't get them. I dunno, both of these are up for discussion though.

What do you guys(or girls if there are any) think?
 
I don't see why they can't have the same meaning for SAINTs as regular soldiers. They'd just apply to different contexts. ex. you get the POW award for resisting interrogation under extreme duress. The awards have broad definitions, they can apply to SAINT activities without changing the meaning altogether. That would just be overcomplicated and confusing. What if I transfer out of SAINT and suddenly my awards mean COMPLETELY different things then? I don't much see the need.

I also don't like the 'covert ops award is a punishment' idea. The military doesn't give out medals for screwing up. They give you court marshals.


But, yeah, I think SAINTs should have access to the same awards system.
 
I guess I didn't quite mean 'covert op' as punishment, so much as kinda something you don't want to get. Ideally people wouldn't know that your an operative unless they too are operatives, covert mission awards seem kind of counter intuitive for SAINT. It'd be like screaming "Woo, I did secret stuff". Maybe it's just me.
 
I do have to agree that getting a bunch of public awards for operations that might be officially denied doesn’t make a lot of sense. At the same time, I can understand Teddo’s point about retaining access to the traditional medal system. I think we could reconcile the need for secrecy, the need for lateral movement of awards, and the need for recognizing mission types and accomplishments unique to SAINT in two ways. First, add to the medal page or description elsewhere that it is standard policy for all awards issued for actions taken while on covert assignment for SAINT are considered classified and can only be viewed by commanding officers. Awards issued for situations peripherally related to the covert assignment can be displayed in the public jacket. Secondly, we can propose a new set of medals issued by SAINT for intelligence related accomplishments (i.e. breaking up terrorist plots, exemplary work undercover, etc, something a bit more specific than “secret ops”) or even a system of letters of commendation, which would also be classified in the same manner addressed above.
 
New medals are alright (submit them in NTSE or the SACN forum) but I'm stopping the "double meaning" idea cold--medals should mean what they're supposed to.
 
I agree that, since the missions are classified, the reasons for getting the medals should be kept a secret. However, I don't see why an operative wouldn't be able to physically wear them -- with the exception of SAINT-only medals, if you intend to make them. You just glare at people whenever they ask you how you got it, and your file gives a fantastically vague reason that's essentially the description on the medal page.
 
I see what you guys are saying, and this is something that is a bit of a quandry but here's why I suggested a 'double meaning'.

Let's start out with the purpose of medals. They are designed to give you recognition for things you have completed, if you can't really display them then it doesn't do you much good, though maybe the good feeling you get for getting them does.


In intelligence work you don't want anything that could potentially give yourself away as an intelligence agent to anyone who isn't supposed to know. This would mean creating a separate set of medals for SAINT could be bad. If any other intel agency found out what they were then they could identify SAINT agents based on their chestcandy or personal possessions.
 
I think the main issue is not so much being able to identify operatives; after all, they wear uniforms with black paneling that clearly mark them as such. Besides, with the ease of body transfers identifying the particular operative wouldn’t be that useful. The real focus is that displaying medals, of any sort, earned from a covert operation would reveal the success or failure of that operation. This applies regardless of whether the medal is SAINT specific or of a sort general to the Star Army as a whole. Take the service medal, for successful completion of a mission, for instance. Say a counter-intelligence group is able to identify a cell of operatives active in a certain area, but can’t find any sign that the operatives had done anything. If operatives of said cell are then seen wearing shiny new service medals, any decent counter-intel group is going to start looking really hard for what the operatives did to earn them, which could potentially roll up ongoing operations and efforts by other operatives. Besides, if you volunteer to serve in an intelligence unit, doing work that requires complete circumspection, you ought to know that you aren’t going to be afforded public recognition and honors for your work; the respect of your peers within the community, and perhaps classified awards shown only to those with the correct clearance, will have to suffice.
 
If a counter-intelligence group can only figure out we successfully executed a mission by our medals, then their level of competence would suggest they're not much of a threat. I don't even care about wearing it on my regular uniform... but it would be nice to have it on my dress uniform. Soldiers need their bling.
 
That's sort of my point: if you join SAINT, you're not a soldier anymore, you're an operative. I think I put it best when I wrote up the operative occupation:
Above all, operatives have to be dedicated to the Empire and its service, as they will frequently be asked to place themselves at the very tip of the sword, where no backup is available and no recognition will be given to their efforts.
Click to expand...
If you need the ego boost of public awards and recognitions, you don't really belong in an intelligence unit. And assuming that some piece of information isn't really that important to keep secret is an excellent way to get assets compromised and operatives killed. Frankly, if a counter-intelligence group figures out you successfully completed your mission without finding out through a post-facto award, comment, etc, then you as an operative really haven't done your job right.
 
Sadly Teddo the YSE has done away with dress uniforms. Alrighty folks, I have some more to say on this for feedback (and to comment on your comments specifically) alas time is thin for me so I'm focusing on plot for now. I'll have something else here in a few days.
 
Hmmm, I see your points. I guess for me the issue is how to reward you as players for good roleplaying. Since the Genei is a ship I had considered having it reclassified (well, 'reclassified') as a traditional ship involving combat. Then assigning medals, which could be earned on such a ship, that had a dual meaning as a reward for such. Of course, as has been pointed out Chestcandy, though deliciously tasty, does kind of declassify an op. The idea for the 'SAINT' version was something as vague as the traditional medal system (which after looking again, as indicated, could be vague enough to use anyway). Also as Sean pointed out, and as I've indicated in roleplay a (very) few times, the job of SAINT is for the most part unrewarding for those involved. Save for that sense of satisfaction and pride associated with saving the empire without anyone knowing.

What about an internal reward somehow...something that could be assigned to the operatives file but isn't quite a medal. Something standardized of course.

As I write this though, I can't help but wonder if maybe it just isn't necessary. Maybe I'm just trying too hard to get this concept through and missing the fact that it's not really needed. Thoughts, opinions?
 
For myself, I don't really feel like medals are that important as far as rewards go. Promotions are far more attractive as far as providing incentives in my opinion. But even those seem a little unnecessary in this plot because, as has been said, the job of an operative isn't very rewarding. And, more importantly, the operatives work in a cell, as a team, rather than in a more traditional chain-of-command like structure; having the Shosa present isn't important in terms of having a superior officer per se, but rather for someone to make policy decisions and plan operations.

But if you really want to issue "medal" like things, specific to particular operations and efforts, what about classified letters of commendation? That way specific achievements could be recognized while providing the perhaps more important reward of a letter in the personnel jacket that will look very good to future commanders, promotion board members, etc, assuming that they have proper clearance.
 
Sean_ODuibher said:
For myself, I don't really feel like medals are that important as far as rewards go. Promotions are far more attractive as far as providing incentives in my opinion. But even those seem a little unnecessary in this plot because, as has been said, the job of an operative isn't very rewarding.
Click to expand...

I'll agree about promotions: they're a much more attractive reward. I don't see why operatives couldn't get normal consideration for promotion. At the very least, it's a bit TOO unthankful to keep them at the lowest pay-grade.
 
My wife and her mother are teachers.

Anyway, Star Army Intelligence personnel generally are promoted fairly quickly and most tend to hover around the warrant officer ranks while the top ones go on to be officers up to Taisa.
 
K, I was more worried about whether we are properly promoted than properly decorated. Being stuck in limbo as a santo hei would be kind of lame.
 
RPG-D RPGfix
Back
Top