OOC [OOC] - Senate of Yamatai Discussion

#Qel'noranLivesMatter

Nice meta-reasoning there for the Empire, Wes, solid, 10/10.

ICly, Yamatai does not know what threats exist beyond its borders, ICly, no one knows what exists on the fringes of the Kikyo Sector. It would be prudent for Yamatai to accept a military alliance which would consolidate the military might of the sector for the purpose of encouraging colonial expansion outward from the core clusters and further out into the fringes. ICly, the overconfidence and bravado which Yui is displaying is a disservice to her history.

More so, it was never about protecting Lor and Nepleslia, ever. Nepleslia and Lor can look after themselves if they so desired, by having their own treaty, with their own agendas. Instead, the treaty was carried out not to protect Lor and Nepleslia, but so Lor and Nepleslia could protect everyone else from Yamatai. Lor does not want another species to have to endure the hardship it has suffered through. Nepleslia has seen what Yamatai has been capable of since the beginning. Between Lor and Nepleslia, there is plenty of motivation to put a muzzle on Yamatai. However, even with that intent, there still exists the IC boon of cooperation between the nations, and the OOC boon of providing new RP opportunities which simply did not exist before.

If Yamatai rejects the treaty, and attempts to renegotiate, its very possible that the Empire could end up isolated from its neighbors, and treated as a pariah, due to the distinctive implications of Yui's desire to 'do her thing'. This display of indulgence in pride and wrath on Yui's part, especially in a forum such as the international relations conference, would only serve to polarize the situation, and likely set the smaller factions gathered against Yamatai in a steadfast manner, purely out of worry for what Yui may do when she 'does her thing'.

Frankly, from an OOC perspective, I enjoyed the treaty not for the muzzle on Yamatai, but for the fact that we could finally move on to something else other than the unspoken cold-war that had distinctively been a thing. From an IC perspective, the Matriarchy was happy to have a promise of new security for all parties involved, and to coordinate for that purpose.

What it comes down to is this: Wes, nobody is trying to sabotage, weaken, or harm Yamatai. We wish to protect it, from itself, because we do still love the heart of your sandbox, and we only want the best for all of us involved from an OOC perspective, and interestingly enough, that overlaps directly with IC interests.

My character is no longer a senator, but I thought it was time to chip Wes's view of the situation with one of my own.

If Yamatai leaves DATASS, it may simply be exchanging shackles made of paper for a noose to hang over its head, I fear. By continuing to wage war and genocide undeterred and announcing its opposition to DATASS, for every conquest Yamatai makes, more nations will join DATASS to protect themselves.

Perhaps what finally stops Yamatai is its eventually surrounding by nations unwilling to yield from their coalition. Victory may just yet defeat Yamatai. I think even Wes understands just how many players he will anger if he tried to godmod his way out such a situation, but that's just me drawing the scenario to its logical conclusion.

Yamatai's primary benefit from joining DATASS was that its neighbors no longer consider them a threat and do not draw plans of war against them in case they are next. To some it represented an element of Yamatai maturing as a nation, of making friends and finding new solutions to problems.

By leaving DATASS in such a cowardly fashion in a manner that suggests such selfish reasons, Yamatai may find few friends in the future from any that have heard their past deeds. It is rare to be given a chance of redemption, will Yamatai squander theirs?

But this is just drug-induced rambling from a sick man. At the rate things are going, Wes may find Yamatai facing that alien coalition he had been planning alone. It seems the K-guys may not be as big a threat as was initially anticipated if this is the path we all go down.

I view the above as shortsighted fearmongering.

Here's the actual truth:
- Yamatai is the most powerful nation in the setting
- Nepleslia and Lor are second and third after it.
- Most other powers don't actually have much of a bias against the big 3. What they do know is that Yamatai is the most powerful, and rumors of past wrongdoing/throwing weight around from that nation.
- No one wants Wes to make a new wiki article with the Star Army planning Operation Roxxors-your-boxers in order to have a war plan against their faction.
- No nation can actually defeat Yamatai and the Star Army of Yamatai unless Wes wills it so. Chances are fair that he won't. Not even against combinations of nations. Therefore, going on directions less-than-friendly with Yamatai can bring about non-fun stuff to nations demonstrating more hostilities. It has happened before, and OoC peer-pressure is the only reason why it doesn't happen more.

Therefore, Yamatai goes and asks more freedoms on a treaty that doesn't really advantage it so far, but seems fine with maintaining peace. Peace as in, having written incentive to:
1- Not to shoot at you
2- trade with you (and Yamatai has this unreal super-rich economy)
3- In general make it so that anyone else wanting to shoot at you might want to think twice, because you're friends with Yamatai and if you're good friends, Yamatai might want to pitch in and help you survive being shot at (preferably by swiftly getting rid of the person doing the shooting with extreme prejudice showing all that they are not to intercourse with)

Therefore, the other two nations would be in the right to wrinkle their noses at Yui's excuse and not be happy to have renegociate things, but - heads up - having a treaty in place is still a huge benefit. It just won't be as much of an alliance... but that's okay, the alliance metaplot was something only Wes tried to push and communicate, and people only made token responses once he groused 3/4 through the time of the alliance treaty until now.

Want to sniff haughtily, huff in displeasure and implicate that Yamatai is going to corner itself, yadda yadda yadda? Feel free to. Keep fearmongering, prophesize doom and gloom of Yamatai. But don't be surprised if boxers get roxxored.

Or you can be bright, be glad that Yui is open to renegociating something that sounds pretty similar, and salvage something out of the situation; since things still look good: Yamatai remains uninterested in shooting you. Being pragmatic would serve you better than this chain-rattling.

Are people so weak as to fear the ramblings of a sick man?

The renegotiation of the treaty isn't my concern, I have only stated the ultimate state of affairs as I've seen it if Yamatai does break out of the treaty in the way it seems set upon.

And yes, Wes can godmod his way and beat all of DATASS if he really wants. But Yamatai have proven historically to not always be the best of friends, and if DATASS grows to include more and more nations that is more and more OOC collateral damage that will make the exodus of the Freespacer players look like a picnic.

This is my worst case scenario, not my greatest hope and desire. A bleak outlook, perhaps. But one that could easily be avoided, even if Yamatai does back out of the treaty eventually.

Are people so weak as to fear the ramblings of a sick man?

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I laughed at this line. It seems like something that should be said in a stage play and not in a thread about a roleplayed government. It's just a cold, Jimmy. Have some chicken soup. Get rest!

even if Yamatai does back out of the treaty eventually.

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It's already happened.

Yuumi is ready to renegotiate anytime. Might as well. If we all wanna get on that, let's do it so we can stop bitching about it. It'd be a nice capstone to Yuumi's career.

I see a lot of OOC reasoning here, next to nil IC reasoning. This is meta as can be, and it drips with it. I play my characters, and guide my faction, by what is ICly known and unknown. There is a lot of unknown in an IC environment, this includes being unknown to Yamatai. Only with a meta view from outside can anyone effectively say; "lol np Yamatai gud 2 go rek sheeit."

ICly, we're just asking Yui to stop wearing blinders and think ahead. This is especially good advice for Yamatai, since most of Yamataian conflicts and disasters have arisen from their own lack of foresight. This very situation they are in now has come about because of their lack of foresight (Sure learns e'm not to humiliate a whole species, and learns e'm not to marginalize another).

Considering a big portion of the OOC (and IC) reasoning for the treaty was to end the Lukewarm War and make sure we(s) didn't destroy the whole site, I can live with some meta. This is about the site as a whole as well as factions working together.

I just want to get something done and make sure the Lukewarm War stays perpetually on ice.

Given that I can now post IC for the senate, I'm presently in the process of cobbling together a response to start laying the groundwork toward stabilizing things internationally, as well as bringing together the currently split Senate. I can't say when I'll get it done, but it should be some time today. Hopefully it'll give some direction other than arguing back and forth the pro/con list of what to do with the treaty.

I think a scenario of mutually assured destruction would make this far more interesting.

It would be insanely Gibsonesque to trade with an enemy you were locked into a cold war with and even air their media and television and the cold war just be an accepted part of life.

I could write an essay on why that is bad, however I'm already risking burning out so I'll just keep it to: plz no

Eistheid said:

plz no

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That's plenty eloquent enough.

Sorry if I'm pushing international peace a little too hard but I actually like being able to interact with the setting on an international level instead of being stuck in a single nation or plotship. When I joined I was presented with a setting where I could visit three different fleshed out cultures with the possibility of potentially visiting the smaller less open participants at some later date, and that is something that I would like to maintain and continue to experience.

So again sorry if I'm not blindly supporting Yamatai, if that is something that is desired. I don't know.

I don't think you have anything to apologize for.

Eistheid, with or without an International Peace you could still visit each culture.

@Nashoba: I'd rather not have to worry about whether or not I'm going to get shot at trying to cross the border.

I'd rather keep the site whole and on its Ps and Qs.

The Senate: where we OOCly argue ICly about stuff going on ICly and OOCly.

I understand @Eistheid but one doesn't need a bad treaty to ensure peace. Case in point, I have never heard that Nepleslia had closed its borders to civilian traffic.

I suppose I'll have to try to keep an open mind, though I'll admit I'm quite apprehensive.