OOC [OOC] - Senate of Yamatai Discussion

Ok, so if Imperial Demesne means that they can never form suzerains, then the Imperial Demesne should be relatively small. And if we want a really expansive one, then negative space wedgies should be able to move systems outside of it. We also need to add a lot of Suzerains.

Trying to move a system out of that direct sphere would be a gross violation of sovereignty i don't see being allowed

You said earlier that:

Soban said:

I'm planning on Essia to become a Suzerainty, and I also suspect that Ohara and Gashmere should also be excluded from any Imperial Demesne if being in it excludes the possibility of ever becoming a Suzerainty. Remember here that the point is to help people with making their own little culturally distinct places that contribute to the Empire and setting as a whole.

Click to expand...

But according to the Territories of the Yamatai Star Empire page, "Albini, Anisa, Essia, Gashmere, Nataria, Ohara, Tami, Tatiana, Ushobrakflug, and Yamatai" are considered the "Heart of the Yamatai Star Empire."

@Wes can correct me if I'm wrong but those worlds, no matter their culture, are literally considered both IC and OOC to be central elements to the YSE. They aren't meant to ever become semi-independent suzerainties. And beyond that, longstanding places like the Bard Cluster, Samurai Sector, and MCS are also very important centrally thematic locations that OOC, if not IC, are also essential to the whole Empire.

This is not an exclusionary statement. It's essential to understand that independent setting elements tend to be new things rather than old things ripped from Yamatai.

yeah that.

So what happens in say 10 years when someone finds say the Abwehrans cool and wants to make them a Suzerainty with their own cultural identity? If they are in the Imperial Demesne, it means they can't. So that means we need a mechanism OOC or IC for them to go outside of it.

Soban said:

So what happens in say 10 years when someone finds say the Abwehrans cool and wants to make them a Suzerainty with their own cultural identity?

Click to expand...

The Abwehrans are part of the Yamatai Star Empire already. Fully merged. The Star Map simply hasn't been updated.

I know that, it's kinda my point.

Raz, it really seems like you want to put the setting into some sort of China Cabinet stasis where no one can ever touch the toys. You don't seem to understand that toys don't go into the China cabinet to die, they go into the play box for people to use and have fun with.

I think assuming a) you can't make cool RP in Abwehr and b) it doesn't have cultural identity because it's a part of Yamatai are fundamentally wrong. Just because it's Yamataian and not its own standalone thing doesn't mean it's not playable.

Soban said:

Raz, it really seems like you want to put the setting into some sort of China Cabinet stasis where no one can ever touch the toys. You don't seem to understand that toys don't go into the China cabinet to die, they go into the play box for people to use and have fun with.

Click to expand...

Being a full part of the Yamatai Star Empire doesn't make any setting element unusable. It makes it part of a functional micro-nation. Not sure where you're coming from with this.

Ametheliana said:

I think assuming a) you can't make cool RP in Abwehr and b) it doesn't have cultural identity because it's a part of Yamatai are fundamentally wrong. Just because it's Yamataian and not its own standalone thing doesn't mean it's not playable.

Click to expand...

Then why have player factions independent of Yamatai at all? Because sometimes people want to do their own thing without having to get caught up on twenty years' worth of wiki articles. Yamatai has a ton of background and that can discourage new players from getting involved.

We're not talking about new factions here at all. Actually, raz's words should assuage your concerns here so...

Air Admiral said:

Then why have player factions independent of Yamatai at all? Because sometimes people want to do their own thing without having to get caught up on twenty years' worth of wiki articles. Yamatai has a ton of background and that can discourage new players from getting involved.

Click to expand...

raz said:

It's essential to understand that independent setting elements tend to be new things rather than old things ripped from Yamatai.

Click to expand...

I see zero reason why someone who’s willing to put in the time and work necessary to bring a dead setting element back to life (like Soban has done with the Separa’shan, Dana has done with the Kodians, and demibear has done with the Reds) shouldn’t be rewarded for their dedication and effort, so long as they realize that their sub-faction will always remain a part of Yamatai.

Also, nothing is being “ripped from Yamatai,” as I’m fairly certain none of the individuals I just mentioned have any plans of separating from Yamatai like Asteria did.

I was typing up a storm, but Frost said what I wanted to say better than I could.

These are not vanity rewards for players, they are things that say "here is a flavor of RP". A single person's passion project isn't a region, a suzerainty, or a subfaction. These aren't supposed to be the end result of RP, but the beginning of it.

Ametheliana said:

We're not talking about new factions here at all. Actually, raz's words should assuage your concerns here so...

Click to expand...

I'm not talking about new factions either, I'm talking about new players. And Raz's post doesn't address anything, it's just a statement of how things currently are and that people should be fine with it.

I should also clarify independence in a subfaction is not meant to be "can do fine on their own."

They can just feed and care for their own people as any local government should be able to. Independence of agriculture is just that. Sure, imports and exports are a big thing. But can you grow the basics to survive?

Independence of technology, again, does not mean you don't import. Means you have local resources to manufacture what your people need

Independence of governance is literally just having a functional local government, such as a damn HOA.

On Earth, that'd be a minimum of a farmer's co-op, a steel mill, and a schoolhouse to form a township, thus having representation in county proceedings. Even if that city's a population under 50. Or state, if there's no relevant county. Point is, the independence clause of the system definition allows small worlds like Tami to stay small and still be represented, cause they have everything they need to function without big oversight.

Does not mean they're military, economically, or socially independent.

Yuuki, it sounds to me like you feel that setting is this sort of static painting. Like say a sourcebook for a roleplaying game that is set in stone. I don't really see it that way, I see it as being very much a living thing that is symbiotic with RP. It's not only the beginning of RP, but also the result of it in a sort of positive feedback loop between the two.

Setting is very much a character in its own right, and grows and changes like any character should. I didn't make Sacre to be this eternally static monolith. I crated her as a person who had shut herself off from the world and through RP gains true friendships and melts her ice queen exterior. Similarly, when I'm dealing with a setting element, I question "where is this thing going? How has it been changing and how will it change in the future?"

@Air Admiral
Then why have player factions independent of Yamatai at all?
We do, this isn't a discussion about them. It's a discussion about the regions currently within Yamatai. It's not up for debate that other independent factions are important but this discussion isn't about them or whether they stay in Yamatai.
Because sometimes people want to do their own thing without having to get caught up on twenty years' worth of wiki articles. Yamatai has a ton of background and that can discourage new players from getting involved.
Okay, but if someone wants to make a character in a place that was once part of Yamatai, they still have to do the reading. If a manager of a system wants it to depart from Yamatai, that person will also need to get caught up on tons of reading. Creating new setting elements is the easiest workaround if you're not willing to get caught up, which is why I brought it back around to that. But even then, joining the NDC is not a lot easier than joining Yamatai because it hasn't had twenty years to be streamlined into the "need to knows" so maybe you're right.
-
I'm going to be honest, I agree (with Yuuki) but I've seen demibear doing so much RP and so much worldbuilding with the Reds that I've always been like "If they broke away it would make sense because of all of this buildup" but they also have the history to warrant it. Talking about breaking away the Elysians, I think it makes sense if they go monster mode and really vilify themselves. But I just don't see it for the Essians, Kodians, or Phods. The history isn't there to warrant it like it is for Reds and Elysians. But I think a lot of us know Elysia wants to break away and are like "how will what we approve now come to bite our senators later when that happens" as well as wondering if Soban wants to do the same thing down the line.

Soban said:

setting is this sort of static painting

Click to expand...

You're literally the one who was just only a couple days ago arguing that there should be things that should just be left alone untouched.