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[Origin] Frame Spear

Re: [Origin] Pilebunker Spear

Putting the angst and drama from y'all aside, the submission does have some issues that need to be addressed, Fivemarks.

1) What is the spear head made of? The shaft is made of durandium and the edge is made of ADNR but there is no mention of what the primary make-up of the spear itself is. Some of the people reading it are assuming the entire spearhead is composed of neriumium, clearing the composition up would go a long way to clearing up problems with it.

2.a) What are characteristics of the launched dart? DR, range, etc.

2.b) By what mechanism does it launch the dart? Is it a railgun, a chemical-propellant weapon, or does it use springs?

3) What is the spear actually intended for? At first glance I was assuming that it was meant for larger PA/Mecha what with a length of 10m (which keep in mind is the length of a bus), but from everyone’s comments I may be wrong here.

4) Related to the above, why was it made? I realize you are going for the "because its cool" explanation, but you really do need to provide a explanation for why the company, ICly, is making the spear. What niche in the market are they looking to fill? No one is looking for a treatise here, just a short explanation on why they thought it would be profitable to design and market a spear.

5) As a FYI, I do not believe melee weapons have a set DR. A melee attack has many more factors entering in to its damage potential than does, say, a railgun sabot.

6.a) By what mechanism does it shorten? Is it made of segments that are pushed in to each other, do they screw together, is the shaft accordion-like and just collapses what?

6.b) As was already asked, what triggers the above? Is it a button, a switch, manual effort, or a squirrel doing the correct Tango?

6.c) If it has any electronics in it, how are they powered?

7.a) What kind of scale is it? This ties in with 3). Is the shaft and spearhead (apart from the things overall length) scaled for a human-sized user or is it meant for a PA or bigger?

7.b) What kind of weight are we looking at for this thing? It is not that important if it is meant for a PA/Mecha (since they can toss cars around) but if it is meant for human-sized persons a weight entry is a necessity.

8) Just as a note, I don't think it is all that crazy to use starship-grade material as a bullet. It is stated that it is pretty abundant, so its not going to be that hugely expensive. In any event, munitions cost has not proven to be a big issue for any of the militaries in this setting (just look at the prevalence of mini-missiles).

9) A second note; While melee is not a primary component in combat in the setting, it is considered a area of concern for militaries. Almost every PA or Mecha in the setting has some form of built-in melee weapon (quite a few have a veritable armory for close-in combat) and a add-on would make sense for those people who like to get up-close and wail on the enemy, however unlikely such a scenario may be. Even for the more balanced, you always want to be prepared for melee, even if you do not intend on getting in to it.
 
Re: [Origin] Pilebunker Spear

Scot said:
Seriously though, melee weapons have their own section, I don't see why this spear has to be special.
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Because it isn't made of wood or normal metal. This is an archaic design made of space-age weaponry, being produced by a manufacturer of starships.

This is a weapon being used by a mecha, and the creator wished to have an article that could be linked to in future designs. Because it is something that will be used in confrontations between mecha, this is perhaps for the best.

Gamerofthegame said:
How does a overall society who is thrust into a advanced age, having no memories or history of whatever it was they came from (IE: We'll assume Earth) save for just a faded legend know what a spear is?
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If we have swords, axes and guns, we can have spears. Hell, out of those, the spear is the easiest to recreate, given that it is one of the first weapons ever created.

tl;dr:

These are not valid arguments if you are trying to prevent the article from being approved.

EDIT: Thank you Vesper. Those are all fine questions to be asking.
 
Re: [Origin] Pilebunker Spear


Thank you Vesper, for giving me relevant questions to answer

A number of your concerns are no longer valid, but I will strive to answer the ones that are.


I have worked on the article to try to clear that up. The entire spearhead is ADNR, with a monomolecular edge, i'm sorry if that isnt clear.

I remember making this, while asking myself "Sure, the ashigaru will be popwerful, but it could use a bladed weapon. But swords and axes are so overused, what could make it stand out?" And I came to the conclusion that I might as well use a spear.

I never thought about how the spear shortens itself, so I don't really know how. My immediate thought is "lol nanomachines",but I then slap myself for being silly. I figure that the shaft folds in on itself, then folds out when needed, but that would bring up more problems with "realism"

The Ashigaru's spear is large, because, for lack of a better word, the Ashigaru is large. Not counting Lorath and Iromakuanhe Frames and mecha, the Ashigaru is slated to be the largest humanoid combat vehicle in use.

The spear doesnt have any electronics.

This thing is heavy. I'm not entirely sure exactly how heavy it is, but I know it's too big for a normal human to carry. It's too heavy for cyborgs and nekos and ID sols to carry.
 
If it is intended for use by a specific armor, it really should note that in the writeup so that someone reading it without any other knowledge about it can get a idea of its scale.

For extending/retracting it, if you do not want to use any electronics the best course would probably be to make it telescope out. It would have a latch/switch/ w/e on it that would unlock the thing. Then the armor would just flick the handle to extend the spear. For retraction you could either do it manually (slow) or have it spring loaded so that when it was extended and the switch was thrown it would retract in to the handle. The second would require the armor to apply more force to extend it, but I doubt flashy opening moves are of issue since the thing was made for "cool effect". Keep in mind that such a mechanism could prove to be a problem if it where caught in a confined location.

A problem with a telescoping shaft is that the shaft is going to be weaker near the ends than the handle. If you choose this method you would also have to say were the handle is. Is the handle in the middle of the shaft (so the spear telescopes out from both ends of the handle) or at one end (so that it only somes out of one end)?

As to the weight, yes, I always do like numbers, but for something intended for a 3-story mech the spears weight is not a critical issue. It weighs a ton or two is fine (keeping in mind that some beefy NH27 or IDSOL could still drag that around).

Issues still not resolved:
1) Why did they make it? Judging from the armor it is designed for, I would guess it is simply a melee weapon intended to give it some reach. Whatever it is, just put a sentence or two concerning why the thing was made.

2) As said, I do not believe melee weapons use a fixed DR. I may be in error here, so it would be good if one of the reviewer folk could comment on this issue.

That is all,
Vesper
 
If this was a Personnel Scale melee then yeah, it wouldn't need a DR per Damage Ratings page. That said, this is an Armor scale weapon that is used in a melee format, so it really should have a DR rating, or probably multiple ones to account for how it is being used, eg: Slashing, Stabbing, Setting.

It should probably also have an entry as to how much damage it can take, after all if someone comes at Frame carrying this item, with a melee weapon of its own, the Spear could be used to block, so an idea of how much damage it can take before breaking wouldn't hurt.
 
There, I added in slashing and piercing DR, and described how it contracts.

I don't see why a spear is such a big deal and requires such intense discussion though.
 
I have to agree, Five.
The fact that an armored spear took up three pages when a starship can be approved in two posts is confounding to me.

Nevertheless, this is a nice piece of equipment, if not for the simple awesomeness. Good work.
 
The fact that an armored spear took up three pages when a starship can be approved in two posts is confounding to me.
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Think of this place as being like congress. Congress freaks out whenever anyone tries anything which is unorthadoxly new.
Of course, keep in mind that unlike congress, the tech board wants to know what it is being submitted in the finest of detail before they approve it.



If the tip is hollow, you could make it a warhead cap or have some special function. I liked the pilebunker idea: the extra inertia would be quite epic for hull cutting or heavy melee against frames and tanks or even armor if the kinetics of the armor can work with it . . .

. . . and If weight is an issue, you could make it hollow. Zesuaium swords are all very thin and very hollow but all are quite heavy and can be remarkably brittle under the right conditions.

Just an idea, of course.
 
This is rediciulous.

It's a spear. It doesnt shoot aether beams, it doesnt open gates to alternate dimensions.

It is just a spear.

There is no logical reason that this is taking so long. I want this approved before I submit the Ashigaru, and I need to submit the Ashigaru so my plot can have some meat and potatoes.
 
This review is for: Origin Industries Frame Spear

The submitted article is/has…
[+] A general topic sentence under the title header
[+] Artwork (illustrations are strongly encouraged for all spacecraft and handheld items)
[+] Needed and/or useful to the setting
[+] In the proper format/template
[+] Proofread for spelling and grammar
[+] Easy to read and understand (not a lengthy mass of technobabble)
[+] Wikified (terms that could be a link should be a link)
[+] Reasonably scientifically plausible
[+] Reasonably neutral point of view

The submitted article is/does not…
[ ] Overpowered (or cutting tech for a faction with little or no roleplay)
[ ] Obtusely redundant
[ ] Contain copy pasta descriptions of systems or interior compartments
[ ] Unauthorized by faction managers or player-controlled corporation
[ ] Contain references to IC events that have not occurred (SM must authorize retcons)
[ ] Use second-person language (“you” or “your”) unless it is an instructional guide aimed at players.
[ ] Use bombastic language (“virtually immune,” “nearly indestructible,” “insanely powerful,” “horrible effects”)
[ ] Use an unbalanced header/text ratio (many headers but sections are one-liners)
[ ] Use major unapproved sub-articles that should be submitted separately
[ ] Lacking Detail

The article has…
[N/A] Speeds in compliance with the Starship Speed Standard, if applicable
[*] Damage Capacity and Damage Ratings in compliance with the DR Guidelines
[] The in-character year of creation/manufacture. (Should be current year. Future years not allowed).
[+] The Standard Product Nomenclature System, if applicable.

Summary:
One item on the checklist is not satisfied and will hold up approval.
** Year of Manufacture is not present in the wiki.

One item on the checklist could be improved, but will not hold up approval.
** Structure points of the spear not present.

Notes:
It is desirable for melee weapons to possess a SP value, and I would encourage submitters to include them, so that their relative durability in combat is known. However, I was not able to locate any extant weaponry (melee or range) on any other armor that lists a SP value. Because of this it is my judgment that it is not a disqualifying lack in weaponry until such time as it is mandated officially (and extant weaponry required to retroactively include it).
 
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