Della said:I wrote a page on Polysentience, the Freespacer neural network.
https://wiki.stararmy.com/doku.php?id=fr ... ysentience
I still think it's missing something, but can't put my finger on what it is.
SUBLIMEinal said:Also, we're trying to nix tachyons, Della. Please remove the references to them on the page.
Andrew said:As a note above posts I was not conflicting in terms of the article content; I am more concerned about the Freespacers putting down some serious RP to contribute to the setting.
Wes said:Anyway, my concern with this is that it essentially makes the Freespacers one single mega-character with many bodies.
Andrew, as I noted previously, my classes make it too difficult to maintain schedule consistent enough to govern over a plotship. I don't mean to take your words out of context but I hope you're not suggesting we stop refining wiki articles and adding reference information for players until a plotship is created, are you?
I don't mean to take your words out of context
This terminology (nearly impossible, almost invincible, etc) is quite frowned upon in submissions. Say it is extremely difficult, but please avoid this particular wording. Of course something like this, which I found later in your submission,hijacking or disrupting this communication network might prove nearly impossible
is fully acceptable.Theoretically, it's easy to hack into Polysentience, since it's large and has no protections or organized defense systems. However, its high rate of connectivity also means that, upon malicious intrusion, a potentially very high number of hackers could be alerted and mount a counter-attack. In many ways, it's like disturbing a beehive: the Free State has many very skilled hackers, and they take a very dim view of anyone who tries to damage Polysentience.
Do you mean FTL here?and some of the more recent have a small STL capability (often Subspace), limited to between 1 and 3 light years.
This was in regard to collective memory...is this automatically done, or do Freespacers stop and intentionally update their wiki pages manually? Please elaborate.And every time anyone learns something that is new to said body of knowledge, he adds it to the database, for the benefit of all.
How does this effect the Freespacer's perception and cognitive faculties in the dream? Does it dull or just operate slower due to the lesser resources available? Also the Freespacer aware of what his mind is being used for and can he decline to give up resources if he knows they will be needed soon?During the scarce few hours of sleep that a Freespacer enjoys, while his body rests, his mind is temporarily put aside (in a virtual reality) as his brain's computational power is made available to Polysentience.
Hence, a Freespacer's βdreamsβ are actually recreational activities played by his conscious mind, while the bulk of his brain is kept busy processing everyone else's information. Not a single moment goes wasted.
I find this very hard to believe unless redundant systems were placed in both halves of the ship to make it operate if cut in half.Even if a starship would get cut in two, the two pieces would not only still work, but be able to coordinate their efforts as if nothing happened.
Individual Freespacers, while they still retain their individuality, are so acutely aware of βsocietyβ as a whole that they identify themselves more with the Free State than they do with themselves.
Reincanration procedures, the ascetic style of Freespacer life, and the effectiveness of Polysentience communications enhance this sentiment: When one Freespacer has the dozens, sometimes hundreds of previous incarnations in him, and can access the mind and memories of everyone else in the Free State, he has an higher opinion of the common collective than he has of himself. After all, he, as an individual, comes and goes, while the Free State endures.
In spite of the comments to the contrary in this thread, this sounds alarmingly like what Andrew was concerned about. While everyone maintains their individuality in theory...it is all too easy to lose themselves in the hive mind and simply become an extension of the mind's will, especially if they rank the State above themselves.In many ways, Polysentience and the Free State as a whole are remarkably similar to a single, titanic intelligent creature. Every single part of this creature works for the good of the creature itself, much like every single organ of the human body contributes to the well-being of the body as a whole.
Or, to make another example, Freespacers take on the role of individual neurons in a brain, and that brain is Polysentience. Just like a brain hosts (and not merely βisβ) a mind, this composite βbrainβ hosts its own βmindβ.
This structure (Polysentience as a sapient mind formed by the holistic union of many lesser sapient minds) is sometimes called βthe Overmindβ by Freespacer sociologists.
In many ways, Polysentience and the Free State as a whole are remarkably similar to a single, titanic intelligent creature. Every single part of this creature works for the good of the creature itself, much like every single organ of the human body contributes to the well-being of the body as a whole.
Or, to make another example, Freespacers take on the role of individual neurons in a brain, and that brain is Polysentience. Just like a brain hosts (and not merely βisβ) a mind, this composite βbrainβ hosts its own βmindβ.
This structure (Polysentience as a sapient mind formed by the holistic union of many lesser sapient minds) is sometimes called βthe Overmindβ by Freespacer sociologists.
Toshiro said:This terminology (nearly impossible, almost invincible, etc) is quite frowned upon in submissions. Say it is extremely difficult, but please avoid this particular wording.hijacking or disrupting this communication network might prove nearly impossible
Toshiro said:Do you mean FTL here?and some of the more recent have a small STL capability (often Subspace), limited to between 1 and 3 light years.
Toshiro said:This was in regard to collective memory...is this automatically done, or do Freespacers stop and intentionally update their wiki pages manually? Please elaborate.And every time anyone learns something that is new to said body of knowledge, he adds it to the database, for the benefit of all.
Toshiro said:How does this effect the Freespacer's perception and cognitive faculties in the dream? Does it dull or just operate slower due to the lesser resources available? Also the Freespacer aware of what his mind is being used for and can he decline to give up resources if he knows they will be needed soon?During the scarce few hours of sleep that a Freespacer enjoys, while his body rests, his mind is temporarily put aside (in a virtual reality) as his brain's computational power is made available to Polysentience.
Hence, a Freespacer's βdreamsβ are actually recreational activities played by his conscious mind, while the bulk of his brain is kept busy processing everyone else's information. Not a single moment goes wasted.
Toshiro said:I find this very hard to believe unless redundant systems were placed in both halves of the ship to make it operate if cut in half.Even if a starship would get cut in two, the two pieces would not only still work, but be able to coordinate their efforts as if nothing happened.
Toshiro said:Individual Freespacers, while they still retain their individuality, are so acutely aware of βsocietyβ as a whole that they identify themselves more with the Free State than they do with themselves.
Reincanration procedures, the ascetic style of Freespacer life, and the effectiveness of Polysentience communications enhance this sentiment: When one Freespacer has the dozens, sometimes hundreds of previous incarnations in him, and can access the mind and memories of everyone else in the Free State, he has an higher opinion of the common collective than he has of himself. After all, he, as an individual, comes and goes, while the Free State endures.
In spite of the comments to the contrary in this thread, this sounds alarmingly like what Andrew was concerned about. While everyone maintains their individuality in theory...it is all too easy to lose themselves in the hive mind and simply become an extension of the mind's will, especially if they rank the State above themselves.In many ways, Polysentience and the Free State as a whole are remarkably similar to a single, titanic intelligent creature. Every single part of this creature works for the good of the creature itself, much like every single organ of the human body contributes to the well-being of the body as a whole.
Or, to make another example, Freespacers take on the role of individual neurons in a brain, and that brain is Polysentience. Just like a brain hosts (and not merely βisβ) a mind, this composite βbrainβ hosts its own βmindβ.
This structure (Polysentience as a sapient mind formed by the holistic union of many lesser sapient minds) is sometimes called βthe Overmindβ by Freespacer sociologists.
Toshiro said:Hmm. Valid points all. Still, we'll be waiting for Wes to make a decision.
However, in the meantime, perhaps it would be best to expand upon that last aspect of polysentience, since it's so easy to assume a Borg or typical hive-mind mentality.
Toshiro said:Since all Freespacers have access to the entire library of intelligence and experience, would this mean they all make decisions with the exact same data and experiences, and develop accordingly?
I ask because in such a society, it might not be possible for one to have a will independent of the state not because of a lack of free will, but a lack of individual experiences which no one else has. If everyone has the same experiences to draw from, then they are much more likely to reach the same conclusions in the poll boxes.
The only differences seem to be personality or demeanor, though I wonder what prevents those from fading over time and exposure to the "default", which is the standard mentality that the common experiences of the race as a whole would convey.
In short, while the "average" person does not really exist in a society mentally (there's ALWAYS a degree of deviation), polysentience actually allows networking to the point that everyone becomes that average not by force, but by logical conclusion. Even individual personality could fade over time, depending on how early one is introduced to polysentience. For a stable personality, access to polysentience would have to be delayed until a child's development was complete, and even then there would be no guarantees they'd retain individual personality.
No matter how a hive mind is structured, it's a risk that exists by design, albeit in a less malicious form.
This sort of thing needs to be clarified in the actual article.MissingNo said:I think the difference is between "shared information" and "shared experiences". A hive mind would share experiences, that is what would give the hive its homogeneous "personality". However, all the 'Spacers are sharing is information. It's like reading a wiki. You don't get the experiences that the page-poster had, but you get the resulting information that they gathered from those experiences.
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