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Relativity or Quantum theory?
- Thread starter Marr
- Start date
Sean_ODuibher
Inactive Member
Could you be a bit more precise with your question? For instance, are you referring to general relativity? The Copenhagen interpretation? And really, what is it you are concerned about, as far as causing a problem with RP? In my experience, which is, granted, less than some others on this site, we don't really run into situations where we need to explain gravity in a particle physics context.
Marr
Inactive Member
Well, im going to creating a few power armor designs, and im worried about the engine types and how they will actually perform. Im looking at an engine that uses some stellar-radiation for propulsion and I was wondering what the effects of going near light speeds would be.
Marr
Inactive Member
This engine type isnt based on anything old, its completely new. Dont worry, its not for mass production. It really doesn't matter though if what it is, I wanna know if time is gonna slow down, or if I'm gonna make warpy thing. It doesn't matter which it is, I just wanna know so I can apply it correctly to the engine. The power Armor is what is gonna slow this down, but Im mainly talking about the power source. The shielding and weapons will also be affected by this but I want to know just for the engine at this point.
Sean_ODuibher
Inactive Member
Well, if you're worrying about time at c-fractional speeds, then this is more a case of special relativity and you don't really need to worry about quantum mechanics, unless there's something about your drive system I'm missing.
There are a few other general things to consider, though. First, the current set-up of SARP space doesn't exactly have ships spending super long periods of time at high-speed, since everything is actually very close together (this may change fairly soon, however; there is a space map retcon of sorts in the works). Also, some of the drive systems used for superluminal and sometimes subluminal travel work by warping or distorting space rather than propelling the ship at high speed (locally, at least), so the normal subjective perspective of special relativity might not apply.
And finally, this being a forum RP site, time tends to move at the speed of plot. Missions that take just hours in-character can span months of OOC posting, but once the mission is over the plot is (sometimes) reconciled with the current time; think of it like unspoken time-skips. Really, what it means is that a careful accounting of time and relative time-passage isn't really necessary, so I would say don't worry about it.
Ultimately though, we can't tell you what effect your engine will have if we don't know how it works.
There are a few other general things to consider, though. First, the current set-up of SARP space doesn't exactly have ships spending super long periods of time at high-speed, since everything is actually very close together (this may change fairly soon, however; there is a space map retcon of sorts in the works). Also, some of the drive systems used for superluminal and sometimes subluminal travel work by warping or distorting space rather than propelling the ship at high speed (locally, at least), so the normal subjective perspective of special relativity might not apply.
And finally, this being a forum RP site, time tends to move at the speed of plot. Missions that take just hours in-character can span months of OOC posting, but once the mission is over the plot is (sometimes) reconciled with the current time; think of it like unspoken time-skips. Really, what it means is that a careful accounting of time and relative time-passage isn't really necessary, so I would say don't worry about it.
Ultimately though, we can't tell you what effect your engine will have if we don't know how it works.
Marr
Inactive Member
This system is a generator based specifically around the manipulation of harmful Interstellar particles. This Drive propels thousands of these highly irradiated raw particles to achieve near light speeds. These particles can be used to go any speeds that are sustainable by whatever vessel that is utilizing the Drive system. Therefore this system has limitless potential and can be used for any sized vessel. When these positively charged raw particles are released, they give off a variation of the particle which is even more highly irradiated. These new particles are then condensed within the system and can be used in a weaponized format. These particles are extremely irradiated and therefore utilization of this Drive system should only be used in Space.
This is what I have so far. If you have any things that you can think of to make this more physically probable, please share them. This system is intended to be extremely expensive so only a few power armors would be equiped with this system, and I will create a series that could actually be able to equip this type of engine.
I want this system to be based around % of particles being filtered through the drive, so at 100% it will hopfully around .5c or a little higher depending on each of the 4 suit designs I entend to create.
The suits are almost done, but I wouldn't be able to put them up for approval untill this tech. is in the system, (not to mention I still need to create a character to create all of these systems).
This is what I have so far. If you have any things that you can think of to make this more physically probable, please share them. This system is intended to be extremely expensive so only a few power armors would be equiped with this system, and I will create a series that could actually be able to equip this type of engine.
I want this system to be based around % of particles being filtered through the drive, so at 100% it will hopfully around .5c or a little higher depending on each of the 4 suit designs I entend to create.
The suits are almost done, but I wouldn't be able to put them up for approval untill this tech. is in the system, (not to mention I still need to create a character to create all of these systems).
SentientRace
Inactive Member
I dunno exactly what to say about that, since I dunno exactly what you're talking about by 'harmful interstellar particles', unless you're talking about micrometeorites and other debris... but to answer your original question, I'm fairly certain SARP uses quantum more than relativity.
Relativity is kind of old, and quantum theory is making a lot of progress and holding up better. Also, superstring theory is awesome. EDIT: The aforementioned sentence is mostly my opinion.
The Difference Engine the Freespacers made pretty much entirely relies in Quantum Theory, and there are other such examples across the wiki that make reference to quantum, as opposed to relativity.
Hope that helps, if only a little.
Relativity is kind of old, and quantum theory is making a lot of progress and holding up better. Also, superstring theory is awesome. EDIT: The aforementioned sentence is mostly my opinion.
The Difference Engine the Freespacers made pretty much entirely relies in Quantum Theory, and there are other such examples across the wiki that make reference to quantum, as opposed to relativity.
Hope that helps, if only a little.
Sean_ODuibher
Inactive Member
So it seems like your drive system causes local acceleration. Thus it would, technically, cause relativistic time dilation, but again, I would submit my previously made points: practically, relativistic time-dilation doesn’t really matter for RP in this setting.
As a side note, unless something has changed, the maximum STL velocity is .375c. Look here if you want more information about that.
To get back to the general point of relativity vs. quantum mechanics, I’ll have to disagree with SentientRace in saying relativity is “old” and isn’t “holding up” as well as quantum mechanics. First of all, special relativity is almost universally accepted across the scientific community and is extremely well supported experimentally; this is the most salient point because the issue you are worried about here is one of special relativity, not general relativity. But moreover, general relativity is still considered a very successful model of gravity. It’s true that it is incompatible with quantum mechanics, in its inability to model at extremely short, i.e. Planck, lengths, but to say string- or M-theory is better is not particularly useful as, in addition to merely being candidates at the time and not yet having reached acceptance across the community, they both are being looked at to provide a theory of quantum gravity and unify all scales of interactions; they aren’t required to replace general relativity on its own merits or in larger scale situations.
This is getting close to just being a physics argument and is sort of getting off-topic so I’ll sum up:
1 – In my view, there is no reason why relativity, both special and general, does not coexist with quantum mechanics within the physical properties of SARP. Just as both relativity and quantum mechanics are accepted, used for modeling, and studied in the real world, so too should they in the SARP; accepting, of course, their theoretical limitations.
2 – I cannot see any reason why we would discard special relativity, nor do I think existing tech articles and descriptions in the SARP imply that. Instead, I think its presence as a functioning model is born out by said descriptions.
3 – None of this really matters, because the practical limitation of forum roleplay and the set up of SARP in particular means that accounting for time dilation doesn’t really matter.
In essence, have fun making your tech and don’t sweat it.
As a side note, unless something has changed, the maximum STL velocity is .375c. Look here if you want more information about that.
To get back to the general point of relativity vs. quantum mechanics, I’ll have to disagree with SentientRace in saying relativity is “old” and isn’t “holding up” as well as quantum mechanics. First of all, special relativity is almost universally accepted across the scientific community and is extremely well supported experimentally; this is the most salient point because the issue you are worried about here is one of special relativity, not general relativity. But moreover, general relativity is still considered a very successful model of gravity. It’s true that it is incompatible with quantum mechanics, in its inability to model at extremely short, i.e. Planck, lengths, but to say string- or M-theory is better is not particularly useful as, in addition to merely being candidates at the time and not yet having reached acceptance across the community, they both are being looked at to provide a theory of quantum gravity and unify all scales of interactions; they aren’t required to replace general relativity on its own merits or in larger scale situations.
This is getting close to just being a physics argument and is sort of getting off-topic so I’ll sum up:
1 – In my view, there is no reason why relativity, both special and general, does not coexist with quantum mechanics within the physical properties of SARP. Just as both relativity and quantum mechanics are accepted, used for modeling, and studied in the real world, so too should they in the SARP; accepting, of course, their theoretical limitations.
2 – I cannot see any reason why we would discard special relativity, nor do I think existing tech articles and descriptions in the SARP imply that. Instead, I think its presence as a functioning model is born out by said descriptions.
3 – None of this really matters, because the practical limitation of forum roleplay and the set up of SARP in particular means that accounting for time dilation doesn’t really matter.
In essence, have fun making your tech and don’t sweat it.
