Ripper Addennum: Quality Variance

[CadetNewb]

From what I understand, the quality of any Ripper varies greatly due to different manufacturers as well as material used. One Ripper can be primarily made of Zesuaium, armor and bladed weapons, and be someone's personal guard, while another may be made of Yama-Dura through and through, armor and weapons.

We've been getting some new players, so I thought it was appropriate to bring this up and ask permission to add to/alter the article so that it explicitly states this.

Right now, there's no mention of the 'Quality Control' that they use in the construction of Rippers.

 

[Soresu]

Back in the old days when the Rippers were first being used there was only one 'class' of them. Not grunt and officer variants. They were primarily made of Zesuaium and were on par or more than a match for the Mindy 1F (The Anti-Starship Mindy) which was the standard SAoY combat platform of the day.

I'm not entirely sure how variants and varying qualities arose. Possibly through various GM's over the years making their own 'minor tweaks'.

 

[Kai]

It's my understanding that the variants rose because of the lack of detail on the Ripper's page. Some GM's saw the page, and, lacking enough detail to understand what it was meant as, began using it as a sort of fodder enemy, and alternatively as an elite boss enemy, despite the confusing, and repeated discussions, no actual actions were taken leaving us in the same position as before.

I'm for the idea of adding an Addendum that points out our agreed-upon GM reasoning behind these mistakes, and allows the Ripper to be used effectively as a tool for all GM's.

 

[Soresu]

Agreed.

 

[Wes]

The crappy version was added to explain when GMs inappropriately played them as weak. There is quality control but there are two different models - a regular one and a low-cost one.

 

[Soresu]

So basically the Regular is the 'Officer/Elite' model and the low-cost is the Grunt/Cannon Fodder one.

 

[Wes]

No, there's the normal model and the cheap one. There are no Ripper "officers" since they are all piloted by brain-slaves.

 

[Kai]

The problem is is that that 'fix' is still extremely vague, and we have GM's who are applying whatever values they want to the unit, which we're concerned may give new players the wrong idea. This addendum solves that problem and works better with the way we've been using the Ripper in roleplay.


What CadetNewb is asking to do isn't to change the Ripper, but rather to clarify a chronic problem GM's have with the RIpper, because the article is so very vague.

 

[CadetNewb]

Agreed.

Right now, we have someone assaulting a Ripper with a melee weapon, and the Ripper's own integrated blades were described as Yama-Dura by the GM. I myself was under impression that the blades were Zesuaium and the hull...well, now that I think about it, I don't even know what the hell the hull is made of!

 

[Arieg]

That is the commonality of NMX equipment articles in general, very little in the way of RP vital details. Maybe its time to update them as well?

 

[Wes]

The NMX Ripper armors are Zesuaium-armored (that's why they have full SP for their size class). I don't know where this Yama-dura thing came from. The stats say that even the cheap version has the good armor, it's just the shield system and FTL system are not present.

 

[CadetNewb]

I believe the Yama-Dura idea came from GM's working off a less than detailed page. Regardless, now that we have their construction clarified, being all Zesuaium construction, may I or someone else add that design specification in?

Also, what are we going to do with the In Character instances where they actually were detailed as Yama-Dura? Right now, Rita (Frown-chan's character) in 4th Fleet is squaring off against a Ripper that has a Yama-Dura blade using her Vibro-Chainblade. Hell, I recall Luca telling me he once had a Samurai cleave a Yama-Dura hulled yet Zesu bladed Ripper.

 

[Frown-chan]

Well there are a couple things I'd like to say.

First off: I would like to know for the record if Mindys and Hostiles are on par, because...

If Rippers are equal to Mindys,
and Hostiles are equal to Mindys,
then Rippers are equal to Hostiles, and it's appropriate to present a swarm of them as "mooks" in a Nepleslian plot.

However...

If Rippers are equal to Mindys,
and Hostiles are worse than Mindys,
then Rippers are better than Hostiles, and it's inappropriate to present a swarm of them as "mooks" in a Nepleslian plot.

In reference to Cadet, I was under the impression that melee combat was generally something that was left up to the GM to decide on, and that site-wide consensus wasn't really necessary? If that's not the case, then somebody should address the matter of VBCS weapons being used on armor plates.

High-frequency vibrating weapons are generally in the realm of "cutting through pretty much anything like a hot knife through butter," and that would probably be overpowered, but making Zesuaium impenetrable to vibroweapons would make the armor overpowered. A balance ought to be struck.

Oh, and I heard someone mention that her weapon would break if it strikes against a surface it doesn't cut through. No. VBCS weapons are made of Durandium, which is a composite alloy of aluminum and carbon nanotubes. As a frame of reference, a carbon nanotube structure the size of a single strand of hair could support a bus without being crushed, and the aluminum allows Durandium some amount of flexibility or deformation before it breaks. I'm absolutely positive that it would instead be deflected off the surface, especially since its vibrating.

 

[CadetNewb]

Don't worry Frown, Soresu was only referring to the Mindy 1F - the ANIT-STARSHIP Mindy. The one that's not in use anymore, and the one that I can't even find on the wiki.

And as regards to the VBCS, I don't think it'll scratch Zesu or shatter against it. But that's my opinion.

And you don't have to worry about that Ripper suddenly going Super Saiyan on you and becoming all Zesu construction either, since Sigma, the GM, already labeled it as Yama-Dura.

Which brings me back to my point; we now know that Rippers are SUPPOSED to be all Zesuiaum in construction, but now, how will we explain the instances where they were very clearly not? The idea of their quality varying greatly with the manufacturer is very interesting, but also runs the risk of making them mookish, which I think runs contrary to Wes' desire - I'm guessing he wished them to be real mini-boss or even boss fights.

Still, what now?

 

[Frown-chan]

That's even worse. A swarm of Rippers, each of which is capable of destroying a starship, being used as mooks? =/

EDIT: Also,

Zesuaium objects:

are always in a solid state (cannot be melted or vaporized)
are incapable of any flexibility or warping (infinite rigidity)
are incapable of being broken, regardless of forces exerted on them
cannot expand or contract due to thermal conditions
reflect all radiation, regardless of type*
are not electrically conductive

According to this, those Zesuaium Rippers are damn near invincible to everything other than being trapped forever in a black hole. How exactly could any weapon cause damage to something that doesn't conduct heat, is always solid, can't be broken, has infinite rigidity, etc. etc.?

The only thing I could think of that might be effective against something like this is antimatter. I'm curious to know how it has been interpreted in RP in the past, and if maybe the article should be changed to mesh with the way Zesuaium has been presented.

 

[Wes]

I think adding detail would be good but I'm iffy on adding another version of the armor (Yama-dura).

 

[Soresu]

Yamataium with a thin Zesu coating?

 

[Doshii Jun]

Plasma can damage Zesuaium, anti-matter really hurts it bad, and aether is between the two in terms of damage, at least with how we've done it in Miharu.

 

[Sigma]

Gee, it's so great to know that the GM we all keep referring to isn't made aware that people are talking about him in public.

The Zesuaium page specifically states that

In an attempt to phase out overpowered and questionable items from widespread usage, Zesuaium use is being discouraged. Please use other materials if possible.

I've seen Wes and others say the same multiple times. That line is the ONLY reason I have deviated from using Zesuaium.

So, which is it? Don't use Zesuaium or use it? Because I'm not getting very many memos about what's going with the larger setting.

Oh and Frown, the blade is Yama-Dura. The armor and construct is not changed from the original.

 

[CadetNewb]

Oh damnit! Sorry Sigma! I forgot to tell you.

*****

(Original Post before Ninja Action)

Well, we don't HAVE to create a new variant for the Ripper that's specifically Yama-Dura. I was thinking along the lines of a paragraph or so on it's page detailing how specifications on them could vary wildly in some instances due to shoddy quality control in the NMX.

Another possible course of action, is to have an IC post in the News section of the forums in the form of a 'Report' that's all about the Ripper. It'd perhaps detail the history of the Ripper, how it's quality vastly varied from location to location due to poor management, quality control, ect in the NMX. And most importantly, how manufacturing of the Ripper seems to have stemmed, but with a vast increase in quality, making the things consistantly a rare but dangerous find in the battlefield, rather than a frequently encountered roulette as seen in the past.

Of course, this would then be followed by GM's ceasing to use the Ripper as either cannon fodder or mainstay troops and instead using them as elite shock troops or something of that level. And then of course, some minor editing in the wiki to make the article explicitly say what the thing is made out of, and precisely how it is meant to be used and portrayed in roleplay.