Rule Change

What has prompted the adding of the no new FTL and Armor rules?

It's been mentioned unofficially by moderators a few times so far... its just no one really went and tried spending an evening stabbing Wes with a fork repeatedly until he decided to update the rules.

Who did the stabbing? I suspect Chigusa. Her large shelf could hide a lot of cutlery.

It effectively kills any chance of PvP between groups by killing the tech forums. All ships now have to be made lego style from pre-exsisting stuff which can only be aquired from certain places.

This is a bad rule and it needs to go. It shouldn't have been added in the first place.

Wes wants a standard for how ships travel around and a standard for what sort of weapons will end up tearing through the very fabric of reality. I can't really blame him for wanting to narrow things down.

That in itself isn't bad. I mean, if it works for Star Trek and Star Wars...

Could you explain more at length why you believe this would be detrimental to the roleplay?

The no super weapon thing wasn't bad. But the extention of the no new stuff policy to armor and FTL is.

Like I said before, with no new FTLs or Armors able to be created then no one is able to get FTL systems or armors from their own nations. They are forced to go elsewhere for it and physically aquire it from another nation. That is unrealalistic.

In PvP neither side will be able to adapt/modify/upgrade their designs. As such people will be stuck with old designs and battles will be determined solely on who has the most ships because nothing new can ever come out to change the strategic picture.

And I would like to point out that even in Star Trek and Star Wars new weapons, armors, and FTLs are being created constantly... sorta. There is a technological progression in both series though the sequal/prequal thing muddles it up a bit as stuff gets downgraded.

New races won't be able to make their own ships now because they can't have their own armor and they can't justify suddenly having someone else's armor. Along the same lines they can't even use FTL systems because of this rule.

I might be willing to make an exception to the armor rule, if the armor filled a niche that wasn't filled already (difficult) or it was fairly hard science.

I find myself agreeing with Uso on this specific issue.

What Wes is trying to accomplish doesn't even need this rule as much as stricter guidelines on approval.

Yes, but the continual development of technology that does the same shit as already existing technology violates Occam's Razor - All things being equal, the simplest solution tends to be the best one.

Sure, there may be multiple ways to travel at FTL speeds, but there is invariably the most simple way to do it and thus developing more complex ways to do it is a waste of time and resources.

As far as armor goes - Nerimium (Hephestium) is a natural resource and widely abundant - if you want more specialized armors like Durandium (Solanium) or Leptonium (Yamataium) then yeah, you're gonna have to get at the Confederates or the Yamataians.

At this point, you can't expect every entity to have its own unique set of FTL travel and armors.

I think this looks more like an on hold for tech development.

Lets face it the SARP universe has too many "I Win" buttons already. Ships that travle faster than any realisticly concivable technology should allow. Weapons and armor that make no sence in their scope of power, and a HUGE galaxy that has only been explored out to maybe 50 or 60 light years.

If sarp wants to be taken seriously I think wes intends to clean it up abit to make it more beliveable. To make something belivable you need to have drawbacks and limits. The way weapons ceep improveing unrealisticly destroys that and turns the tech fourm into a mile a minuet arms race.

Did it ever occour to someone that another race could have stolen and or found their own way to create a type of FTL engine? Theres no reason for a ship's sublight speed to even hreach HALVE the speed of light by conventional means. Simple physics aside it's simply unballanceing and lacks appeal in storytelling. Which should be about People not their machines.

To use a comparison, look at a show like Bebop. ships were old broken and lived in. There was really only one way to get around in FTL and the tech wasen't a star of the show but just a background piece to the setting. Lets face it people dont want to here technobabble they want to here a good story. Ive even backed off the tech fourmafter talking to some of the "old salts" in sarp Once there is a standard on what can do what i am shure Wes is a reasonable enough person to allow people to sudjest additions agian. After all a RP community is made up of players. without that it's just an empty site.

A s a side note on the armor issue. The material may be the same but the construction is what is important.

there are no new radical materials in those british chalanger tanks armor that make them superior. It's the way it's constructed that makes it strong and resiliant. Instead of inventing a new element or alloy try to use or borrow another style of soctsruction.

Maybe your ship or whatever is built a different way than conventional "more inches of thick plateing" do some bloody research on what works in the real worls and apply it to your idea it makes it more believable

Why can't every new race have its own way of using FTL? That would create the variety that one would expect from having a bunch of different races co-exsisting. New systems are essential to new races. Already established organisations aren't hurt by this much but it kills everything else. After all how do you explain new races suddenly having all the same systems and armors that everyone else has? That would kill suspention of disbelief.

Also Occam's razor is about making as few assumptions as possible. In this case so long as the tech is generally sound there should be no reason to not approve it.

With the new rules all that will be generated is text, useless, uninteresting, text. New ships won't find their way into RP because they aren't improvements. I would like to remind everyone that tech is an intrigal part of this RP and contributes to many dramatic situations.


I would also like to point out that if you are against new superweapons Wes has been constantly adding new superweapons even though his rules forbid them such as the 10ly range QDs on the starfortress or the star teliporter for the SMX.



I would also like to point out that the ban affects ALL new armors. This would include using exsisting materials in new ways.

THis also bans all new FTL systems reguardless of how they move through FTL.

I asked for this rule change. At first, I said put a moratorium on Yamataian and Nepleslian tech -- NOTHING new, period. I didn't like the restriction from a speech point-of-view, but if it shut everyone up and ended the bickering, I'm happy. It forces people to focus on the roleplay and get creative.

Instead, Wes and I came to this compromise.

The amount of technology we have is stunning. Overwhelming. Somewhat hard to swallow. Nevermind the quality or level of it.

ICly, time passes very, very, VERY slowly. A week could take months, OOCly. Time could fast-forward some, but it will still amount only to a few weeks. The level and speed of technological development is utterly maddening for such a short time period. Nepleslia's grown into a nation of amazing advances within that time. It's already hard enough to believe.

This rule does not bar everything. It only bars major technologies. Spins on current ones could probably pass muster, if they're believable and within the spirit of the board. But it does bar creating new ships, new methods of travel, and new major weaponry.

We have enough of it. Make do with what we have; that's my sentiment.

Interesting rule... but I dislike it for apparent reasons, but for the sake of the thread, I'll explain.

First off, there is a large gap between the tech scale of races such as the Phodians, Lorath, and Nepleslians, and the Yamatai Star Empire. Meaning the development of a new armor or new lightspeed drive would greatly benifit one of the smaller races in relation to "Being like one of the big kids".

A fine example of a problem with the rule is for brand new and fresh races, such as the Sourcian (I doubt I spelt it right). A race which relies on technology far different than that of Yamatai or Nepleslia. This would require entirely new armor and drive systems to be introduced in the long run, and with the new rules, that won't happen and it will put a nice big bullet through logical plot.

Anyways, I could prattle on for some time, but I'll cut it short and put it this way; There is a lot of speed between a Hyper Fold Drive and a Fusion Engine, that means there may be a lot of machines to do the job. As with a wide range of speed, there is a wide range of damage and armor to counter the damage, not to mention a million and one different feasable ideas for armor. The key point is... sure Yamatai does not need new treats, but the young races do. I know I am not going to be wanting to use WTFoverpowered armor on my creations, thus I am going to want to introduce my own... unfortunately, with this rule, I can't, and that ruins my enjoyment of the setting because to "Keep up with the jones's" I would have to use physics-rape material (Zesuaium, Yamataium).

Meaning: Regulate, do not restrict.

While I'm at it, I was told the rule blocks all new FTL systems however the wording on the wikipedia is a double negative if I am not mistaken.


The current wording of the rule does bar everything. It should be removed entirely and the system should return to a case by case basis.

An excellent point, Doc, and one I discounted personally. I should've mentioned it; my apologies.

Regulation is tiresome. It's a pain. And it generates plenty of vitrol and bickering. Restriction is easy and less cumbersome, and though I feel like a lazy politician for thinking this way, it just puts my mind at ease that people will have to actually roleplay out some time and do with what is available instead of spending their time "catching up with the Jones'."

You're right. You have to use what's in the setting instead of coming up with things ad nauseum. It's a rule that favors both moderators and players -- the playing field has a limited number of toys to play with, and that allows all of us to get on the same page about those toys and stay there.

The actual "warring" and "catching up" this board sees through roleplaying is practically nil. All this catching up is meaningless unless it is played out. So play it out for now and see what happens. If the rule becomes cumbersome, it can be changed.

As far as the wording, I fixed the double negative and added the words practically repetitive. This means that incredibly slow systems such as that of Concerto's Relic Ship are okay, but the systems that Uso comes up with, for instance, are restricted.

Wes can overrule me on that, but I think that is the spirit of the restriction.

Note that Concerto's Relic Ship passed muster before under the rules, as it does not go beyond what is already in existence.

no submissions of new, practically repetitive propulsion systems

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That specifically bans the wormhole drive as it is repetitive as it has been done before numerous times.

If you want to end bickering drop these new rules. They only hurt the RP by restricting any development of new ships.



Edit: If you want to ban new methods of FTL then have the rule say only certain methods of FTL are allowed like wormholes/hyperspace/warp drive.

So my new CCD II drive is a no go? =/
I was going to have it fail anyway, much like the Excelsior form STar Trek, but geez.
I already have to pick and choose from existing ship, many of which don't have a lot of information or details tho them, and then try to build a new & useful ship out of them. X.x

I have a little free time to throw some thoughts about this subject. (STUPID DELL RAHGAGHAGHAGHGH).

You're right. You have to use what's in the setting instead of coming up with things ad nauseum. It's a rule that favors both moderators and players -- the playing field has a limited number of toys to play with, and that allows all of us to get on the same page about those toys and stay there.

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I think what bothers the players of the non-Yamatai nations are the painfully obvious limitations that they have on actually using what's in the setting.

There's a whole bunch of restricted tech out there that exists solely for the use of the Star Army of Yamatai, not even including the 'behind the scenes' development of 'storyline' weapons (as I like to call them) that Yamatai and the SMX are (according to Uso) repeatedly pulling without going through the tech approval forum... which is, in itself a double standard, but one that exists, perhaps wrongly, for the sake of keeping IC storyline flow.

So, I like to think that the non-Yamatai nations are interpreting this along the lines as being bullied. A 'we have this and you can only use what we have, but you CAN'T because you don't have access to it,' if I may say.

But this restriction extends both IC and OOC. And that's a big problem with some people.

If a nation cannot access certain techs that it would deem invaluable (such as FTL, Soul Savior tech, etc), the only logical conclusion would be for said nations to develop their own versions (even if said versions are primitive in comparison). Anything less is the equivalent of said nation sitting idly and awaiting the Yamataian or SMX machines to gobble them up.

All this Razor talk does not apply if you are a nation concerned about having your water supplied from someone else's pool, a pool that can be cut dry in an instant.

But with these OOC rules, there's a curtailing of that process as well. So it's understandable to expect some negative backlash.

There are valid arguments for both sides of this debate, and I'm sure some sort of compromise that favors both sides can be used. However, if things remain as they've always been, this issue will not be resolved. What's needed is a clearly laid-out and community-created system for the approval of technology and degrees of access / limits of technology that each nation in the galaxy should have.

The actual "warring" and "catching up" this board sees through roleplaying is practically nil. All this catching up is meaningless unless it is played out. So play it out for now and see what happens. If the rule becomes cumbersome, it can be changed.

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This does not justify the reverse, however: the use of roleplaying to approve tech that has not been introduced to the tech forum, as we have seen with Yamatai and the SMX.

If what Uso has stated is true, this is as problematic as what we're debating in the first place.

I'd like to see consistency in regard to technology and how it is used in the RP. Things 'just appearing' are not any better than overpowered techs being approved for general use through the tech forum.

Now hold on a sec--everyone's got (potential) access to aether, hyperspace, and CDD; shouldn't that even the playing field some, since it defeats Zesuiaum (which is slowly being phased out anyway)?

Only the Mishhu have non-approved tech appearing, and that's because they're completely GM-run.

The star-killing weapon was my doing too, not Wes'. He can't be blamed for that (though Quantum Detonators with a 10 ly range is a bit pushing it - it could have had been 3 ly and still have been pretty awesome).