Shields...

[mizunoyoroko]

Okay, I'd like to bring this up here since I don't want to open a wound to the General Public. I also want to make sure that I as a player, GM, and potential tech submitter understand crystal-clear what the rules on shields are, and how they interact with the tech I use or submit.

Typically, shields have a stopping value equal to their size class (1 through 5). For example, a light hull's shields will entirely block a very light damage or light damage weapon, but stronger weapons will only be mitigated and the excess attack power would hit the ship's hull.

I'm going to give some examples to see if I understand this correctly.

Both Ships are using Starship Damage Scale

1 20SDR Shield with 2 Threshold

5 SDR Damage

5 (Damage)
-2 (Threshold)
--
3 hull damage with 18 points on the shield remaining

Is my understanding of this correct?

 

[mizunoyoroko]

Ah forget it, I'll get to the point. The example above is just confirming what the rules about shields say. I'd like to agree with Wes's ruling and respectfully disagree without contradicting him at the same time.

Shields on Starships that are class 4 or 5 (bigger ships, or ships with higher shieldratings) are much better as a single shield. Simply because most damage coming in will be smaller than the shield threshold and because of that the shield will last longer.

In a nutshell any craft designed to handle combat with ships it's class or lower are best off with a single shield with all of it's SP. This makes multiple shields for those craft useless.

On the other hand, craft that are going to be attacked by craft of a higher class or damage scale greatly benefit from multiple shields. I'll give an example of the shield system for the dropship I'm designing. I expect most damage coming in against this to be from Starship class weapons whether they be installation based or actual fire coming from a starship.

Mecha Scale
Hull: 12 (Lightly armored, shuttlecraft (Base SP 20))
Shields: 4 Total SP: 20 (3*6 = 18 + 2 = 20)

• Shield 1: 2SP[2] threshold
  • I figure that a shield has a threshold equal to it's size class (4 in this case) or the SP of the shield, whichever is lower. After all, it can't block more damage than it can absorb.
• Shield 2-4: 6SP[4] Threshold

Enemy does SDR2 Damage

SDR2 in Armor Scale is ADR10

10
-2 (Shield 1's threshold value)
--
8 (Shield 1 remaining SP = 0 since it blocked 2 damage and is now offline)
-4 (Shield 2's threshold)
--
4 (Shield 2 now has SP of 2 and Threshold 2 since it blocked 4 damage)
-4 (Shield 3's threshold)
--
0 damage and shield 3 now has 2SP and 2 Threshold

Let's say another attack hits, same DR

10
-2 (Shield 2's threshold)
--
8 (Shield 2 is now offline)
-2 (Shield 3's threshold)
--
6 (Shield 3 is now offline)
-4 (Shield 4's threshold)
--
2 Hull damage (10 remaining) and Shield 4 is now at 2SP and 2 Threshold

Another attack of the same strength would destroy shield 4 and deal 8 damage to the hull leaving the hull completely undefended with only 2 more points of damage before it is destroyed.

All in all this enables the shuttle to survive 4 shots by a craft larger than itself (at least 1 dealing SDR2 damage). However if it were attacked by ships weaker than itself the advantage of multiple shields would be negated. Since the shields have a smaller pool they are taken down quicker. Once a shield is taken off-line the shield no longer provides the defense in terms of it's threshold (the amount of damage it can stop outright). Very quickly smaller craft can strip the protection of multiple shields from larger craft.

Additionally, multiple shields probably take up considerable amounts of space. This means power armor wouldn't be able to mount multiple shields, which is fine for what they do. Shuttles and Fighters could do so, but at the expense of other useful things such as weapons.

All of this is something I arrived at following the guidelines on the Damage Rating page. In my opinion most Starship Scale shields are great as a single shield, same goes with mecha shields. Fighters though, or very light starships engaged in gunboat style combat (such as the Yuuko) would benefit from multiple shields.

 

[Fred]

This is not a number game. This isn't a board game either. In SARP, we use those values to sort of outline in general what kind of protection your energy screens can provide for your ship. You are being far too critical on the number crunching - it isn't made to push toward that level of complexity.

Some will be generators with backup units if they collapse. Others will be generators set to protect six different facing for the vessel to form a complete shield bubble. Some others will be energy accumulator systems which will absorb damage by storing the energy delivered, and then use cooling systems to cope with their vessels ability to handle that abuse.

The above sort of hints at the method in which the shield can recover, which is a useful tool to provide to any tech-oriented players.

What multiple shield systems is supposed to stand for is that your shield generation unit could have multiple protective devices built into that defensive value, such as electro-magnetic shielding, graviton shielding, space-distorsion bubble shielding, scalar fields and so on (hence 'multiple shields'). Those can be combined, but endline is that overall, the vessels total protective value is about the same.

For any further specifics, that's for the GMs to figure out inside their own plots.

 

[mizunoyoroko]

This is not a number game. This isn't a board game either. In SARP, we use those values to sort of outline in general what kind of protection your energy screens can provide for your ship. You are being far too critical on the number crunching - it isn't made to push toward that level of complexity.

Frankly this is just an example of my take on the UOC's Regenerative Shield System. Instead of having a single shield devoted to the defense of the ship, when an attack temporarily overloads the shield (OOC terms the attack is more powerful than the shield's threshold) a backup shield is smoothly transitioned into place, helping to reduce the impact of the blow. Of course that still weakens the shields. Really it's exactly like running multiple shield 'bubbles' right underneath eachother. It's just a different method.

Frankly the damage rating system concerning shields is extremely well written in my opinion and allows different shield philosophies to show through. I just went through the theory to show the pros and cons of multiple shields. I feel that multiple shields do have a place and are not useless in this setting and I wanted to fully explain why that was so. I felt the 'number crunching' as you call it was necessary to explain this. Of course that place is a niche and not necessarily something that is applicable in all situations.

edit:

Also...it is a number game. These values can and have been used in PvP, they can and have been used by GMs to represent damage. Not just that but the way the shields work as layed out by OOC terms help a GM realize the method in which a ship operates. We're asked to think like the actual designers of this equipment would think and then translate it into OOC terms so that other GMs and players can understand the way something works and it's comparative effectiveness to any other piece of technology in the setting. To maintain fairness and quality we're asked to adhere to certain guidelines and rules. These being to follow the DR system, to follow the other OOC rules set up, and additionally to put it down in paper so that other people know how much damage ships can do, how much damage they can take, etc. It is very much a numbers game, though it should be a numbers game driven by roleplay.

I'm not calling for any changes to the DR system. As it is that example I gave follows the rules to the letter. I am just putting forth my opinion that multiple shields do have value in this setting, though not in all situations.

 

[Wes]

Multiple shields do not allow a ship to sustain more points of damage. The reason multiple shields are allowed is only to allow defense against multiple weapon types. A ship, regardless of the shield type(s), only has one threshold - equal to their class (1 through 5).

 

[mizunoyoroko]

That's the thing, this really doesn't allow you to sustain anymore damage than a ship with a single shield at SP20 (in this example). Other than it lets you be able to actually use all 20 points of your SP before your ship is blown to bits. Regardless of multiple shields or not, there are still only 20SP points. The ship will never ever be able to take more than its allotted SP. This just allows its shields to protect it from larger attacks more effectively.

 

[Wes]

This just allows its shields to protect it from larger attacks more effectively.

Yeah, it's an exploiting of a part of the rules that weren't clear enough. I thought "useless" was clear enough but I saw I had to be even more explicit.

 

[mizunoyoroko]

Why is it an exploitation? It seems only logical that someone would eventually develop this method, I mean heck read the Regenerative Shield System it's implemented there in all but mechanics. Now you're saying the UOCs method of handling shielding is completely wrong, even though you had no problem with it until I put it down in mechanical terms.

The ship can still only handle 20SP worth of damage, but now when an SDR 2 attack comes against the ship it takes 10 shield damage instead of 4. It doesn't give the ship any additional SP for its shields. Now the ship only has 10SP remaining in its shield.

 

[Wes]

The "regenerative shields" as written have been questionable ever since the new DR system came into effect over a year ago. This is not new to anyone but you.

Why is it an exploitation?

Because you're making your ship tougher by using multiple shield systems, despite the fact that ships with multiple shields are supposed to have the same damage capacity as their single-shield counterparts.

The ship can still only handle 20SP worth of damage, but now when an SDR 2 attack comes against the ship it takes 10 shield damage instead of 4.

The whole point of the damage system is to put factions on a fair level with each other. Having your ship take less damage means your ship has more effective SP than other ships. Stop trying to game the system.

 

[mizunoyoroko]

You mean threshold not SP. The total SP will never change. If you hit it with attacks its class or smaller it will still only take 20SP to deplete the shield, though it should be noted that this quickly reduces the overall stopping power of the entire system.

As for the concept, yea...the point was to prevent the shields from being overwhelmed due to stronger attacks. Instead of a single shield that fails, multiple shields are there back eachother up when one fails. Still it can only absorb 20SP max of damage.

Consider this:

A normal shuttle has 20SP and 12 hull points. It takes 2 SDR2 attacks to blow it up. When it is destroyed it has 12 (edit: math error on my part, fixed was 16)SP remaining. At least this way when the ship is destroyed it has 0 or close to 0 (depending on the attack, SDR5 in it of itself is a force to be reckoned with) SP remaining. Like I said I am applying the concept of RSS in game terms. It's not a concept that is really that hard to grasp and it is not without its disadvantages. It is an alternative '1 shield' system.

The advantage to the 1 shield system is the protection from attacks that the system can handle without overloading. It doesn't lose any protection really when it is hit with those attacks because it has a larger (mechanical terms here) pool of SP. Bigger attacks almost bypass the shield completely though.

In my opinion you shouldn't be able to transfer shielding between multiple shield systems, because they are seperate systems. In mechanical terms this doesn't matter, if you transferred all the SP to a single shield on an RSS system you wouldn't get all of the threshold protection of multiple shields, only 1 (that's also why my ship has the weaker shield in front).