Staff Members and Family Members

[FrostJaeger]

Are staff members allowed to make staff-level decisions for community members that are also family members of theirs in real life, @Wes? The answer, in my opinion, is a definitive “no” due to the vast potential for bias and, similar to what you said here, the possibility of “their impartiality [being] called into question” - but I’d like to make sure, as, well, I was told in PMs today that such a thing “[wasn’t] my call to make” despite being (in my personal opinion) a rather “common sense” kind of thing.

The reason I ask is due to the staff-level decision that was made here in spite of the fact that I explicitly asked for your input and in spite of the protests made by numerous community members (myself, @IQ, and @club24 in this thread and @SirSkully, @Alex Hart, and @Arbitrated in this one).

 

[Jack Pine]

I say no personally, as that as you've pointed out, adds bias and makes the decision seem not impartial. I also agree with the argument given in those threads by mentioned members. No one is exempt from the rules, and if it is enforced on others, then they don't get to ignore them. (there i've given my two cents.)

 

[Arbitrated]

Agreed. I try to avoid doing any sort of staff-related decision with @META_mahn where the results are "iffy" whenever possible, usually asking for someone else to help handle him. (I mean to be fair, he rarely actually causes problems in the first place. But when he does, I ask for help...)

I think that personal relationships should always be accounted for when a staff member is interacting with something. It may not always be a "positive" relationship that should be paid attention to - "negative" relations should also be accounted for, because if a staff member dislikes somebody they are likely to see what that person is doing to be wrong, whether intentionally or not. An ideal world would have staff be one-hundred percent unbiased in every situation, but since we have human staff members we should work on a way to minimize the risk of relationships interfering with decisions.

I'm part of the staff team of a roleplaying community based on discord, and there's a special staff-only regulation specifically for this type of situation. Ever since it's been put into place, things have been working more smoothly in terms of staff actions there. There's a "problem" where a lot of the staff is generally friendly and liked, but we still manage to make impartial decisions there because of said regulation. Something similar on SARP would likely be very helpful in reducing potential bias in decision making.

 

[Syaoran]

@Ametheliana didn't make the staff decision Wes did in discord. He straight up said that the thing did not apply to teh M38, Ame just acted on Wes' judgement. You can literally scroll up in the discord and see it, and I even reposted it for you. @FrostJaeger. So where exactly is the bias? Ame waited until Wes made a decision, and then simply executed it for him. It was not Ame's decision. It doesn't matter that Wes didn't specifically speak in the forum because there is -proof- of his response to it and Ame acting on the response. Stop nitpicking stupid stuff and stop trying to run people's name's in the dirt by putting clearly legitimate actions in a bad light.

And because you did infact write your post as if Ame was being bias when proof has already been presented to you that it is not true but rather just enacting Wes' judgement, I'm reporting this thread as attempted harassment.

 

[club24]

Why are we still going on about this I thought it was over already, big man said no so no was the answer right can i just go to work without fear of being dragged into several more threads or conversations?

 

[Charmaylarg Dufrain]

i think its less about the M38, And more about something that came about because of it (Like the question of if a staff member can make decisions for someone they are close with.).

 

[club24]

I mean, sure i did make a couple posts making it known I wasn't super happy, but its an online rp. Whatever happens here isn't really going to change my day to day life bar the scenario i leave or get banned.

And i agree with you char but the problem is this. Everytime there is a slight altercation on the site, the minute its done someone makes a thread like this which is always spurred on by the recent action, as pointed out ame was relaying wes' message and without trying to be rude here we all know that would be a lot faster than waiting for wes himself in most cases.

Another point to make, afaik ame is the only staff memeber with family on the site as well, so this thread is basically driected at her in its entirety unless we get a new family duo joining the site and one goes straight to staff.

 

[Syaoran]

@Charmaylarg Dufrain The question about staff treating family is fine, the problem is how deliberately information was falsified in the initial post. This isn't a thread meant to benefit the site it's a thread meant to damage Ame's reputation.

 

[FrostJaeger]

That's the thing, though, @Syaoran and @club24 - if @Wes wanted for his message to be official, why didn't he post in the thread itself? It - and if I'm wrong about this, Wes, please correct me on it - seems to me like his message was more of an observation then an official announcement.

@Charmaylarg Dufrain The question about staff treating family is fine, the problem is how deliberately information was falsified in the initial post. This isn't a thread meant to benefit the site it's a thread meant to damage Ame's reputation.

Seeing as how you're deliberately falsifying information and slandering me, @Syaoran, "I'm reporting this post as attempted harassment."

 

[Syaoran]

Wes specifcally said that it does not apply to the M38 or other energy weapons. You're the only person who can see that and try to twist it into something else. You can report me all you want, but anyone can look at the discord logs and see it. Even without profile post about it that have mysteriously been deleted. You just need to drop it, you were wrong, let it go.

 

[FrostJaeger]

Energy weapons that are essentially personnel-scale pistols will live in the Tier 1 or Tier 2 range depending on how powerful they are. For example the NSP is Tier 2 because it can take off your whole arm like a rifle round can. Most energy pistols should probably be Tier 1 like their solid ammo counterparts.

Wes specifically said otherwise, @Syaoran.

 

[Syaoran]

Frost that is a lot older than -yesterday- and that is also older than the post in the same thread that specifically said that that thread is meant to apply to -only- conventional solid ammunition on personnel scale weapons. Not to power armor scale energy weapons. You are literally cherry picking 1 post that is 'out dated' to try and prove your point.

 

[Ametheliana]

This is cool and all, but please keep my personal information off of the internet. I might make a thread and explain what happened there (pre-SARP), but I really do not feel like going into it. It is for my safety and for protection that you don't talk about the personal information that was edited out of your posts. Thanks for understanding, and even if you don't, please don't talk about this stuff publicly.

Frost approached me in forum DMs about this. I told him that it really isn't his call if I am biased. I gave him a dead end and so I think he's trying to drum up a response against me for a bias, which isn't super useful so I am locking the thread.

Wes decided I could make tough calls where bias might be an issue when he made me staff and rescinding that decision will never be hard for him, if need be.

The thing is, I made a call for a gun and only after asking Wes to VC and hearing him talk about it. Well, he didn't really say much besides reading out the thing he said on discord as he typed it. When he said that I was just like, "Okay well I will make it so on the forums."

Wes doesn't have a huge ability to post on the forums right now, Frost et al. so please understand that when I hear something from Wes' mouth and in text, I'm going to put it into action. It's not my job... But it's my job.

 

[Wes]

Staff should avoid doing discipline decisions for family members. For things like submissions the normal anti-bias considerations apply.

Because Ame was simply basically posting my answer from earlier I don't think it was biased.