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Tech Idea: Low impact personal shielding

Firebrand

Inactive Member
I had an idea for a piece of technology I could develop as a civilian venture, and I just wanted to see if there would be any interest in purchasing it. Basically it'd be a sort of skeleton suit composed of a core belt unit, and then a series of lightweight bands worn on the arms, legs, neck, and other limbs. When active the unit would generate a personal forcefield around the wearer- the force field suit could be worn underneath clothing, and even underneath a power armor (though it forcefield would interfere with the power armor's shielding, requiring one of them to be deactivated).
 
There have been at least a couple discussions of personnel level shielding one here and tangentially here.

If you're too lazy to look through them the short of it is this: No one so far has put in the research to develop a personal level shielding system. Yamatai has expressed interest in it with the latter of those links, but no one has put in the time to make a shield for personnel scale, meaning that IC time is going to need to be dedicated to researching the concept without it just popping up.

The purpose of this is to let you know that you're going to have to approach this with a slower development cycle than normal tech submissions because this is going to potentially change the landscape of SARP's equipment.
 
Advanced chelti infantry might use personal shields, if the NTSE crew doesn't go into hysteria the moment I enter the room with it. However, most of those are reactive directional or vortex shields and stay off most of the time. Basically acting as mobile cover for a few seconds.

All-around bubble shields which miraculously don't make the PA pop off the ground and roll around like a comical person-snowball from a Crash Bandicoot game will probably remain in solely the realm of PA or tanks for the time being.

I also had some amusing far-off plans for a shield system for a few very high ranked chelti to have shield systems embedded in circuitry tattoos in their skin, at the expense that when they turn it on their clothes are ripped off. Imagine a pissed off naked alien chasing you down the street tossing cars out of the way.

Well, I think it's funny.
 
Personal shielding was discussed in the past. It did not end well. You wanna open that can of worms? It is you funeral.
 
I think with the new damage system coming down the pipe, there's not gonig to be that much division between armor and power armor, so it would make sense for personal shields and armor shields to be closer, too. I also think that in the future, we'll see Nekovalkyrja volumetrics eventually replaced with hard-light ones that will give them a sort of personal photonic shield, too.
 
Wes, just so you know, I'm not in support of that. Will the new DR thing in the works be able to support something like this? Definitely.

Should it, though? I do not think so.

Nekovalkyrja have followed a dumbing down process. They are in good shape right now. Personnal shielding is not a variable I believe should be included with them, especially with player characters. Not to mention that usually, when GMs try to have unarmored away teams, it's because they want things to be more barebones. This, to me, makes the move disingenuous.

Not to mention that the smaller example of shielding we have in the setting are on power armors, whom require lunch-box sized power supplies and significant hardware, and that being in proximity of forcefields is typically harmful to living creatures.

We have good setting dynamics going on here. Why rock the boat when the current setup is well-justified?
 
I will open by saying that I have mixed feelings on personnel scale shielding. On the one hand I think it could lead to some interesting writing. On the other hand I can see it being abused or misused by the playerbase.

As such my opinion is that standard Nekovalkyrja shouldn't have shielding. Much in the same way that the Stealth models are assigned only to special cases IC; related something I feel doesn't happen often enough given the number of SAINT characters floating about with either standard bodies or for some reason ending up as Eihei models instead of Stealth models for reasons beyond me... Anyway, back on subject I feel that if special assignments necessitated a transfer to a shielded body, I'd be fine with this, but I would however like it if GMs would take the time to make sure that the player can handle the abilities.

This brings me to my second point: From what I've observed in the archives the big reason that Nekovalkyrja have been 'dumbed down' is because players often treat them as humans with cat ears. This in my opinion leads to players playing their character wrong when they ignore abilities that should be obvious to the species. Hence why the more recent models are simpler. It helps new players who get into the setting by having a gentler learning curve than the old Neko models necessitated. I don't think it is really wise to say that it is completely for the better that Neko have become more human over the years, apart from making it easier for players and GMs to pick up the race.

As for what @Fred mentions about present shielding one could argue that personnel shields would necessarily be weaker and more fragile than PA grade shields. Perhaps even involving longer changing times. One could also argue that the shields only slow rather than stop threats perhaps allowing armor to last longer rather than outright stopping the damage. So more in the spirit of how armor works in concert with health in Doom, rather than the shield system in say Halo. Of course this might be over complicating things.

While I do largely agree that SARP as a whole is largely well balanced with the mechanics and set-up for action IC, I do also like the idea of adding in different flavors or variety in certain circumstances... While I understand that often GMs don't want players to get their hands on certain pieces of the setting I feel that it limits the opportunities for players to have fun if you flat out ban them from restricted portions of the setting. There are many portions that I would like to see more often, or even get a chance to write, and I don't think it would wise for me to pursue GM status just because it would allow me to play with certain Player banned pieces of the setting... I suppose my point here is that opportunities should be given to players to experience the more exotic pieces of the setting rather than limiting them to the bog standard equipment/races.
 
It might also be worth considering making personal shields a thing, but GM restricted kind of stuff. That way they can be used, but with low emphasis, and only as a force modifier for people who are already meant to be big bads.
 
Wes, just so you know, I'm not in support of that. Will the new DR thing in the works be able to support something like this? Definitely.

Should it, though? I do not think so.

Nekovalkyrja have followed a dumbing down process. They are in good shape right now. Personnal shielding is not a variable I believe should be included with them, especially with player characters. Not to mention that usually, when GMs try to have unarmored away teams, it's because they want things to be more barebones. This, to me, makes the move disingenuous.

Not to mention that the smaller example of shielding we have in the setting are on power armors, whom require lunch-box sized power supplies and significant hardware, and that being in proximity of forcefields is typically harmful to living creatures.

We have good setting dynamics going on here. Why rock the boat when the current setup is well-justified?
The point is to phase out the Star Army's "all combat is power armor combat" policy. If we can get Nekovalkyrja with personal shields that make them a little more damage resistant, maybe we can get back to our infantry roots.
 
A Neko without armor is still a really effective low cost combatant, I say grow a bunch of cat girls and with or without the shielding toss them in between your PA squads as meat and fodder, they'll never be able to move around and shift positions as quickly as your powered armor troops but even so you can get them to do shit like man err... "cat girl" stationary weapon systems to provide suppressive fire and light indirect fire. The back bone of your forces will effectively always be that of the powered armor trooper but this isn't to say that lacing them with cheaply grown and deployed forces won't produce a desirable result in the realm of fire support alone.
 
So, we'll have nekos in miniskirts with personnal shields now.

There was a time when you objected to that too, Wes.

We're distinct from Startrek Online in that respect. I thought that was a good thing.
 
So, we'll have nekos in miniskirts with personal shields now.
God Fred, you're helping them win.

I really don't think personal shields do much of anything to make infantry plots without power armor more believable/likable/probable. There are already infantry power armors so infantry is already encouraged with power armor. Unless personal shields somehow are made better than power armor there's no real reason not to equip it. And having built in Neko shielding is just going to cause people to complain again/more that Neko aren't human enough for them. You're just going to have more instances of people looking silly because they didn't fly away OR activate their shielding.

What's the point of giving Neko organs to make them weaker and more relatable when they've now got interior armor to protect them and soon they may have personal shields? People can now talk about how hard their character's heart is beating or its lungs are working which people like because it makes them more human but armor and shields go against that. It sounds to me like the NH29 should still be used as the standard.

On top of shields for people to complain about or improperly represent or not represent at all you now have vision abilities and electrical activity sensing. Neko would be "a bit more resistant to get back to infantry roots" if they were NH-29s without weak points like a heart.
 
Amaryllis, you're missing context. Go eye the thread Luca linked. I'm going to quote @Wes over there:

I think it's just too magicky, and if there were personal shields, wouldn't armor become obsolete?

I'm against personal shields unless the body is built to emit them (such as the NH-32). Fred explained it best. It changes the setting from armored soldiers to people in miniskirts being able to stop bullets. That feels lame and overpowered to me. Plus it would probably require some sort of DR revision to make them useful. What's the point of personnel-scale shields when armor-scale weapons are going to instantly cut through them? Power armor is the way to go. The only people I could think of that might even use personnel-scale shields are police and civilian VIPs.

I was echoing something Wes said in the past which was a detractor to him back then. Having a more compatible DR system to the idea doesn't mean it's a good idea for the very reasons he championed back then.
 
Since I didn't get any feedback on what I previously posted I suppose I'll just have to move on to addressing what is being mentioned in more recent posts.

First I'm going to be borrowing from @Amaryllis' post since I have some things to say.

I really don't think personal shields do much of anything to make infantry plots without power armor more believable/likable/probable.
My stance on this is giving players and GMs the option to present personnel scale combat with weapons below the PA range in a different way. Neither avenue is better than the other merely different. A soldier, or individual in general wearing armor or a shielding system, or a combination of both is going to have different worries and their tactics are going to change in the field. Armor ablates, and deteriorates over time, where as the shields would provide indiscriminate defence against a few things before needing to recharge. How one handles the course of combat would differ widely as one manages the resources and benefits of each system.

Personally I'm of the opinion that a shield would be useless for any sort of covert activity given that the energy signature would scream, "I'm here!" Much in the same way that I believe that most secure facilities in the setting have gravitic sensors that detect Yamataian levitation to make sure that no one floats into the premises undetected.

Unless personal shields somehow are made better than power armor there's no real reason not to equip it.
With this I would argue that some people might want to use the shields in a scenario that is less than a power armor engagement. It could be interesting flavor wise to have some people in what looks like plain clothes be shielded, or have elite police units that have shielding to augment their armor. It's more about flavor below the PA scale than function. These aren't supposed to replace PA, just give narrative options. Whether they get used or not depends on the themes and situations presented.

To add onto this I'm of the opinion that personnel shielding systems would have their own caveats apart from being useless when they get dropped... Such as the unit melting on the user.

And having built in Neko shielding is just going to cause people to complain again/more that Neko aren't human enough for them. You're just going to have more instances of people looking silly because they didn't fly away OR activate their shielding.
I understand this sentiment from an OOC perspective with the issues of new players frequently failing to use what is inherent within the race which I believe was what led to the production of the NH-29 and later NH-33. At the same time from a lore perspective I really hate this attitude. Neko shouldn't be human. They're engineered war machines, representing them as being human, and complaining about their inhumanity seems counter intuitive to me.

With that said, this is part of the reason why in my previous post I suggested that any shielded Neko would be a restricted version like the Stealth models or Samurai models. So that a player won't find themselves using a body type that has more capabilities than they're prepared to work with.

--

Moving on to @Fred's quotes of Wes' old sentiments.

I think it's just too magicky, and if there were personal shields, wouldn't armor become obsolete?
I would disagree with this statement, for the simple fact that even with PA and Starships the existence of much more effective shields than what would be available at the personnel scale doesn't render armor useless.

I'm against personal shields unless the body is built to emit them (such as the NH-32). Fred explained it best. It changes the setting from armored soldiers to people in miniskirts being able to stop bullets. That feels lame and overpowered to me. Plus it would probably require some sort of DR revision to make them useful. What's the point of personnel-scale shields when armor-scale weapons are going to instantly cut through them? Power armor is the way to go. The only people I could think of that might even use personnel-scale shields are police and civilian VIPs.
Part of this answers @Wes' stance on the matter already... He's suggesting a body type which has built in functionality, which is exactly what he expressed would be needed for him to be okay with the idea.

Moving on; what has been suggested isn't a replacement for PAs, as such it negates the criticism that a personnel-scale shield will be torn apart by a PA weapon system... After all no one says personnel scale armor is useless since the same relative fragility is true were it on the receiving end of a PA's wrath.

This is something that is being suggested to give more flavor and variety to personnel scale conflict. It isn't trying to phase out PA. If the same limitations are applied to personnel scale shields as their larger counterparts there won't be an unbalance in the setting beyond giving personnel the ability to soak a little damage and duck into cover to manage their shielding systems. Even the most pitiful of PAs (hello M1 Demon) should still be a potent threat to any personnel with or without these systems.

So long as the technology is clear in its limitations and no one is led to believe that throwing on a belt is going to allow them to challenge a PA this should really do little to the setting aside from providing a variation in the flavor of personnel scale defences.

--

Apart from the bit relating to the relative human nature of Neko where I feel strongly that it harms Neko as a species to be conformed to the limitations of humans, I'm largely playing devil's advocate for this proposed bit of setting material. I think it could work and do little aside from provide a different flavor of personnel equipment, but at the same time I'm not going to be heartbroken if it isn't wanted.

With this in mind I hope that whatever is decided enriches the setting and makes it a more enjoyable place to write in.
 
Does the setting still Scalar weapons and fields? Because if so unshielded infantry are insanely vulnerable in Yamataian-tier armies. The way it's written now, scalar is basically a magic "I kill you dead" switch not only kills anyone caught in it without heavy shielding, it also blows up or ignites any explosives or fuel, so not only do you die, your infantry become fireballs.

I don't know why certain nefarious factions with access to scalar literally didn't just fire them at planets and wipe them out in minutes without even needing to glass them, but that would be really really boring if they had. At one point every single one of Yamatai's armor articles had a specific paragraph in their shield systems stating their immunity to scalar. That's how bad this thing was.

Which is why I made the decision as FM to look into personal shielding to counter such fuckery as this. The question isn't IF sarps infantry should be shielded, but HOW MUCH. At least, as long stuff like scalar exists.

I thought I was just behind the curb with this sort of tech, but it almost seems I'm the only who has even put any thought into wide-scale infantry.
 
Well I might be remembering incorrectly but I'm pretty sure Wes said at multiple times when asked about scalar that Neko could use their gravity manipulation to form some kind of shield against scalar weaponry so there's that.
 
I don't know why certain nefarious factions with access to scalar literally didn't just fire them at planets and wipe them out in minutes without even needing to glass them, but that would be really really boring if they had. At one point every single one of Yamatai's armor articles had a specific paragraph in their shield systems stating their immunity to scalar. That's how bad this thing was.

Because that isn't fun.
 
Going to be properly digging through this thread, as the Brolt utilize a system akin to this for their handheld shields (energy-coated shields). Really was a good initial read, though, as it makes me consider that it's quite likely the case that this sort of technology is untapped/not fully investigated in terms of potential for certain factions. Maybe I found the field of technology where my species (and others) could possibly gain their economic/military niches!
 
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