Closed The Vast Universe

[Wes]

I've been thinking a lot on how to make Star Army a more welcoming place to roleplay, particularly with an eye towards new players. Here's my thoughts:

• Most roleplays don't need to have a forum set up. Forum creation should probably reserved for plots with multiple completed threads. The faction forums are underutilized because everything happens in subforums.
• Most roleplays don't necessarily need a GM in our traditional sense. Anyone should be able to start a roleplay thread and be a GM for that thread, without having to make a special application for a forum and such. You shouldn't need my approval to start an RP.
• Star Army needs a general roleplaying area that is highlighted, casual, and popular.
• Whether or not an RP is considered canon is not a determining factor on how fun it is.

With the above in mind, I have a proposal for a general roleplaying forum: The Vast Universe is a faction-neutral forum for roleplay that takes place in the reaches of space around the major empires, a wild frontier full of wonders and danger.

Roleplays in the vast universe are considered part of the SARP extended universe and are semi-canon (they don't necessarily get onto the wiki but can be submitted for that when they're complete). Characters are free to roam and make up storyline and setting elements without waiting on an NTSE approval process. No GM applications are required to start threads or make characters. You can set it in different years too, if you want. The only requirement is that RP should be in the SARP setting (non-SARP roleplay has its own forum).

Threads can be location-based (like a particular space-tavern or secret asteroid base) or storyline based (Thrashnog Bloodfist tours the galaxy!) and don't necessarily have to match up with other RPs in the forum.

It's a place for instant and spontaneous RP where tall tales, rumors, and lends originate, telling of the adventures of those in the great beyond. If you've ever wanted to try running an RP but didn't want to go through the "red tape" of applying for a forum, this might be what you're looking for. I'm looking to gauge interest in this and for volunteers to help get this forum moving.

 

[Abwehran Commander]

Question:

How would this be different than just posting in the Independent Roleplay Forums section?

 

[Wes]

How would this be different than just posting in the Independent Roleplay Forums section?

The independent forum and/or SARP non-canon may be merged into this forum. To answer your question:

1. It would not be fully canon and therefore the normal approval processes could be bypassed.

2. It would would have a specified setting, which is the universe outside of the existing player factions.

I'd like to hear your feelings about the forum.

 

[Nashoba]

Wouldn't this just be another thing to go under the free form roleplay?

 

[Wes]

Wouldn't this just be another thing to go under the free form roleplay?

No. Freeform roleplay is for roleplay not based on SARP's setting. It's "anything goes." This would be a SARP-centric forum on the board index. I would appreciate your comments on the idea.

 

[Doshii Jun]

I think that to really push this idea, the data you collected about player-to-plot ratios would really be helpful.

We've talked about this before. When it comes to advancing the roleplay, it just doesn't seem fair — quasi-canon material that doesn't really matter in the setting. It's another way to get players to join and make it very, very easy for them to stay. But, oh wait, whatever these players write isn't really canon.

Our wiki is enormous not just because of submissions, but because of history. The Mishhu wars happened because of the actions of players. That's rich, beautiful history there. Storytelling hooks spring from it. Possible SARP books would be built on it. Tabletop RPG would mine from it.

All because of the actions of players operating in a canon setting. We players made that history! Resistance to this idea springs from that fact. Why do we care if players stick around or not in some quasi-canon universe? We want to advance this story, these characters, this tale of war and strife and life!

We want our writing to matter. To have meaning. Effect.

So if you want to support this thread, talk about that player-to-plot ratio. Back up your proposal with facts and not just statements we've heard before.

Or, much like this universe would do, bypass us and just do it. Screw what we think. You don't need our help to make it happen, right? Anyone can just come in and start it up with little knowledge of SARP. Boom, pow, done.

 

[Wes]

When it comes to advancing the roleplay, it just doesn't seem fair — quasi-canon material that doesn't really matter in the setting

As noted above there will be an approval process for RP threads. So that concern has already been addressed. It's either approved stuff and canon RP, or unfiltered stuff and non-canon; the submission-approval process and putting things into the Star Army canon go hand in hand because having a filter for the setting's official content is important to keeping its quality and originality level high.

If people want to guarantee their RP gets into the SARP history books, they can get plot approval and apply to be a GM like we do already. Otherwise, things that can be fitted into the canon will be, and things that don't fit won't.

Why do we care if players stick around or not in some quasi-canon universe? We want to advance this story, these characters, this tale of war and strife and life!

It's more important to have players having fun and being a part of the community than it is to build the wiki.

bypass us and just do it. Screw what we think. You don't need our help to make it happen, right?

This kind of rude and passive-aggressive commentary is unwelcome. Feedback is important and that's why this discussion thread exists.

 

[Doshii Jun]

It might be rude, but it isn't passive-aggressive. It's practically a plea. Wes, you're the ideas man. This is your idea. We don't need to sign off on it. Discuss it, sure; it gets you more forum activity anyway.

But this isn't one of those things that really impacts us, the veterans who loyally have stayed here and helped build your dream.

I think I'd like to see how this approval process goes. What ideas do you have for admitting setting elements that were not previously approved? What is the threshold for events in these RPs having impact on the canon? These are questions I have but can't really answer. My gut instinct is, "Unless they basically stay inside the setting and approved tech, they never will meet canon."

It's more important to have players having fun and being a part of the community than it is to build the wiki.

This is about far more than building the wiki, Wes.

This is about having something to be proud of. To go back to and be able to say, "Yeah, we did that." Sakura players STILL do that. Aeon players will do it too; so will Sakura II, 4th Fleet, Miharu, Byakuren, 147th, on and on and on.

Wes, players in the canon make a difference. We shape the site with our writing, and it's fun in its own right.

Players having fun (and posting more topics on the site, another concern of yours) isn't the convincing argument you make it out to be.

Why don't you bring out the facts? Like I told you, those are far more convincing than any of your reasoned arguments. It dispelled a misconception I believe people besides myself have about how our site is populated.

 

[raz]

• Most roleplays don't necessarily need a GM in our traditional sense. Anyone should be able to start a roleplay thread and be a GM for that thread, without having to make a special application for a forum and such. You shouldn't need my approval to start an RP.

I like this idea a lot. I like that you mentioned it was okay to RP canon things in different time periods. I like that you're down for getting rid of NTSE approval on characters (because I RP mini characters without approval all the time). But I still think that people wanting to run a major faction plot (Star Army, NMSC, Astral Vanguard, RRF, etc.) should need to apply to be GMs. What's the point of managers (essentially continuity editors for specific factions and organizations) if unknowledgable people are going to ignore their work?

 

[Zonr_0]

A significant problem with this idea is just that SARP just currently is not setup to be well suited to such a system as outlined without all kinds of continuity confusions. Furthermore, a similar system already exists and is in many ways less limiting and confusing.

The problem with player retention is primarily one of the pacing of posts running rather slow for many new players who are typically itching to get involved right as a character is approved. They end up getting one or two posts in and then one or more of the following happens:

• The post rate in the thread is slow, so the player never forms the habit of checking the forums regularly.
• The player isn't sure where to fit their character into the existing action/narrative, so they just end up sitting and doing nothing.

The first isn't easily fixable other than making sure GMs are on top of culling inactive players and realizing that GMs typically lead activity, so a GM who posts a lot is more likely to have players who post a lot. However, at the same time, people have lives outside of SARP and should not be expected to force more posts than they're comfortable committing time to.

The second can be relieved a little bit by making a conscious effort to give new characters good entry points. This isn't just a GM effort, players should take an active role in this too. Typically, new players are hesitant to just jump into the middle of the action. If a new player jumps into the plot, somebody should make an active effort at engaging the new character.

All that being said, I think the idea of a way for characters to interact outside/between plots is a good idea. I just don't particularly like the implementation suggested. It's simultaneously confusing canonically and limiting roleplaying wise. You end up in effect creating a firewall between the main plots and this side forum where characters and events will very rarely cross.

As I don't want to just tear the idea down without offering anything constructive, I'd like to propose a very rough outline for a system that I think works a little better for SARP's current setup. I'm coming up with as I write this post however, so please forgive any vague details or unfinished ideas.

---

The idea behind this system is to create broad location based forums that are headed by specialized GMs. These locations would be their own sub-forums in relevant factions. For example, Yamatai might just start with a "Planet Yamatai" and "Yamatai Space" sub-forums for location based RP. If after time, there was enough demand for it, other locations in Yamatai space could open up as well.

This location forum would be headed by a GM. The Location GM's primary responsibilities would be to:

• Act as an adjudicator and an overall world 'force'.
• Ensure characters and actions remain faithful to canon.
• Create and approve new minor locations. (eg: a new bar or a character's apartment would not need to go through the full approval process, but you would need to run it by the Location GM first)
• Approve characters that wish to start in location-based RP.
• Create minor plots that players may participate in or ignore as they wish.

Topics would be organized by minor location, with a sticky thread listing each major public location. Private residences or incidental/one shot areas can live or die with bumps.

Rules regarding NPCs and world interactions would be slightly relaxed, with players given permission to speak and act for minor NPCs. Furthermore, the Location GM could 'deputize' players to control certain locations if he or she wished. However, law enforcement, dangerous, or sufficiently important elements should be relegated to GM control only. The exception could be minor GMs for approved (small scale) sub plots. Rules regarding technology and significant new setting elements would be the same as in the larger plots. ie. If it's significant and doesn't exist yet, it has to go through full approvals.

Players could move their characters across locations and in/out of plots at will. The crew of the YSS MeowMix could spend their shore leave in a bar on the Yamatai location forums where they start a barfight with some of the locals. A soldier awaiting transfer from one ship to another or waiting for orders could spend time relaxing with friends or the like. A Nepelesian could take a vacation from Nepelesia to Yamatai, or vice versa.

Of course, all of this being interesting would depend on there being a significant use of such forums. If nobody used it, then nobody would go there. I hope this all makes sense, as I said, I came up with most of this on the fly so it may need some refining before really being a good idea.

 

[Nashoba]

So basically the The Vast Universe is just another Free Form area for folks to run. In the SARP universe but based on what you said,"The Vast Universe is a faction-neutral forum for roleplay that takes place in the reaches of space around the major empires, a wild frontier full of wonders and danger."

Without a GM or FM oversight, these can and will probably not represent the various factions properly. Because a new person could just start something invite some friends and their off.

So if you want this, the biggest issue I see is that it will require a documented review process that will have to be followed for a "freeform" roleplay to be deemed Canon. And part of that should be more than one person has to review and concur.

 

[Wes]

Thanks for the feedback. How about a simpler plan: We could just rename the independent forum to this and call it a day.

 

[Nashoba]

Doesn't solve the submitting for consideration as canon, but otherwise good.

 

[raz]

Why not move the faction general forums to be subforums of "The Vast Universe" so they're not stuck below faction plots? That could help encourage veterans and newcomers alike to tell stories with characters not assigned to a plot ship.

 

[Wes]

Why not move the faction general forums to be subforums of "The Vast Universe" so they're not stuck below faction plots? That could help encourage veterans and newcomers alike to tell stories with characters not assigned to a plot ship.

Well, I think it makes more sense to have the plots inside of their corresponding faction. But that is something to think about, creating a top-level categories for location-based RPs separate from plot forums. I would have to figure out how to arrange it so there's not two forums for the same thing but also avoid showing every RP forum as a huge scroll on the main page (which is what would happen if the faction forums went from forums to categories).