Traveller Shuttle Craft

[Della]

because Freespacers need more love, more ships, and more stuff to help them interact with other races.

https://wiki.stararmy.com/doku.php?id=fr ... :traveller

 

[Andrew]

What is the hull/armor composed of?

 

[Della]

Tungsten, self-sealing gel and buckypaper shielding. standard Freespacer hull, just like the Gypsy.

 

[Andrew]

:shock:

Armored Hull and Hull Integrated Systems
The outer hull is built according to standard Freespacer design philosophy: low-tech, inexpensive, sturdy, easy to service and to repair. It is composed primarily of tungsten, self-sealing liner (to repair leaks), and buckypaper shielding. Following the Way of the Failover, the Traveller shuttles are not designed to resist damage, but to function no matter how heavily damaged they are.
HULL DR: 6

Something about a shuttle with a hull DR of 6 disturbs me. You realize this would make this shuttle have a stronger hull than the new Type 30 Mass Production Escort produced by KFY; being the top of the line shipyard in the setting?

I suppose this highlights the need for changes in the system. But until that system is in place I really need to see this lowered. I would suggest DR 3.

The weapons on the shuttle seem overpowered for a shuttle as well. Sure yes they are approved weapons but they don't seem to fit the "role" of the shuttle. Maybe you could put some time into designing some kind of lighter weapon for this. Shuttles shouldn't be taking on Starships its just silly.

(And yes, I know there are others. But I am trying to ensure that things being produced now are more towards the aims of what we are moving towards, rather than that which we are moving away from.)

Traveller shuttles are ad-hoc crafts, custom built from whatever spare parts are available at the moment, and therefore there probably are no two Travellers alike.

The statement scares me, it leaves a little too much room for variability which possibly could be harmless or change the craft beyond acceptable perameters. Maybe you could come out with a few different builds that will be common. (Kind of like the different loadouts that the Mindy 2 has.)

Okay design, but needs improvement.

 

[Toshiro]

I like this submission very much, actually, though there are only a few things which I think need changed.


1. A ship expected to travel over long enough intervals to have stasis pods should have a lower FTL speed and no fold capacity, honestly. Your speeds do not mesh with the ship's "character", so to speak.

Also, it is very hard to have a single Nuclear Fission reactor maintain any CDD speed at all, much less folding capability. Please lose the folding capability, and I suggest having a FTL number below 1000c. Perhaps you should also explore a more power efficient FTL system than CDD, likely meant for lower speeds.


2. I recommend that you at least have some DR 2-3 deflection shielding on this thing to protect you from space debris. Hitting particles of matter floating in space while you're going even 0.1c could destroy your ship. They'd also rip through your sails like tissue paper, unless they are constructed of some very durable (but super thin/light) material.


3. The larger ship variants of your "Pseudonova" Missile are indeed DR 6, but I do not see a craft which can be as small as 4 x 2 x 2 meters carrying a multi-gigaton nuclear missile strapped to it. I suggest a standard DR 5 nuclear missile.

 

[Della]

:shock:

Armored Hull and Hull Integrated Systems
The outer hull is built according to standard Freespacer design philosophy: low-tech, inexpensive, sturdy, easy to service and to repair. It is composed primarily of tungsten, self-sealing liner (to repair leaks), and buckypaper shielding. Following the Way of the Failover, the Traveller shuttles are not designed to resist damage, but to function no matter how heavily damaged they are.
HULL DR: 6

Something about a shuttle with a hull DR of 6 disturbs me. You realize this would make this shuttle have a stronger hull than the new Type 30 Mass Production Escort produced by KFY; being the top of the line shipyard in the setting?

I suppose this highlights the need for changes in the system. But until that system is in place I really need to see this lowered. I would suggest DR 3.

Well, the only other shuttle that has hull strength listed is rated at 5, and has level 5 shields on top of that (and has a dr 6 weapon), so i figured it was the way a shuttle was supposed to work. considering that Freespacer crafts are built exceptionally sturdy and durable but without shield, it seemed fair. DR 3... ok, but i'd have to get rid of all the fluff text that describes the craft as "exceptionally robust and durable". Not a problem for me, but it kinda was its "selling point".

The weapons on the shuttle seem overpowered for a shuttle as well. Sure yes they are approved weapons but they don't seem to fit the "role" of the shuttle. Maybe you could put some time into designing some kind of lighter weapon for this. Shuttles shouldn't be taking on Starships its just silly.

(And yes, I know there are others. But I am trying to ensure that things being produced now are more towards the aims of what we are moving towards, rather than that which we are moving away from.)

Did you read the text around the stat blocks? It says that those are experimental refits and all those weapons are additional. non-standard. Basically, if they feel like trouble's coming, they'll mount a turret or a missile on the Traveller in hope of doing some extra damage if things get ugly.
This doesn't mean that every Traveller is equipped with a welding laser, a cruise missile AND an autocannon: that'd be just silly. Most just have the laser, but some can be refitted to carry one of either, the missile or the autocannon, and maybe take part in swarm attacks in support to their Mothership.

Traveller shuttles are ad-hoc crafts, custom built from whatever spare parts are available at the moment, and therefore there probably are no two Travellers alike.

The statement scares me, it leaves a little too much room for variability which possibly could be harmless or change the craft beyond acceptable perameters. Maybe you could come out with a few different builds that will be common. (Kind of like the different loadouts that the Mindy 2 has.)

Well, I already did, if you noticed. Not too much in detail, but if you want I could talk a bit more about the variants (Scout Traveller, Courier Traveller, Rescue Traveller, Racing Traveller, Combat Traveller). The only one I covered in detail is the Combat Traveller, because it's the most different from the "base design".

I like this submission very much, actually, though there are only a few things which I think need changed.

1. A ship expected to travel over long enough intervals to have stasis pods should have a lower FTL speed and no fold capacity, honestly. Your speeds do not mesh with the ship's "character", so to speak.

Ah, but the main problem is that a Freespacer's idea of "long time" is different from a human's.
Freespacers live very short lives in very tight, closely-knit and social communities, and to be alone for long periods of time, for them, would be a psychological trauma. Five days alone in a cockpit doing absolutely nothing could be enough to drive an average Freespacer to suicide.
(And, well, I was thinking of what my character, Dream, would do in such a situation. And she'd probably use the stasis pod for every trip longer than 10 minutes.)

Also, it is very hard to have a single Nuclear Fission reactor maintain any CDD speed at all, much less folding capability. Please lose the folding capability, and I suggest having a FTL number below 1000c. Perhaps you should also explore a more power efficient FTL system than CDD, likely meant for lower speeds.

Hmm.
Let's see. If we get rid of Fold drive (always seemed a bit overkill to me anyway), the Traveller can go from Freespacer territory to Nepleslian territory in about a day.
A tenth of that (1000c) is ten days. It's a lot of time, by Freespacer standards, especially for a craft that was designed for speed and little more. Well, i've read the speed rules, and "11,250c" was listed as a "fast" speed for a technologically standard race.
"average" speed for a technologically standard race is listed as 7,500c, and even "slow" is 3,750c. Ok, hi-tech starship design is not the Freespacer's strong point, but three times slower than the slowest speed on the chart, for a vehicle built with the sole purpose of being fast?

2. I recommend that you at least have some DR 2-3 deflection shielding on this thing to protect you from space debris. Hitting particles of matter floating in space while you're going even 0.1c could destroy your ship. They'd also rip through your sails like tissue paper, unless they are constructed of some very durable (but super thin/light) material.

Well, I'm not sure how to answer to this one. Freespacer vessels never have shields (because they're too expensive, use up too much energy and are too volatile). For instance, the Gypsy-class Industrial Ship has no shields, and despite this runs on solar sails.

I'm guessing that it's the buckypaper lining on the hull that "dissipates the kinetic energy of incoming micrometeors", as the Gypsy's writeup puts it.

3. The larger ship variants of your "Pseudonova" Missile are indeed DR 6, but I do not see a craft which can be as small as 4 x 2 x 2 meters carrying a multi-gigaton nuclear missile strapped to it. I suggest a standard DR 5 nuclear missile.

Ok, fixed. Anyway, combat-refitted Travellers are usually larger than that, and not just flying coffins designed for carrying a person from point A to point B and nothing more.

 

[Andrew]

Well, the only other shuttle that has hull strength listed is rated at 5, and has level 5 shields on top of that (and has a dr 6 weapon), so i figured it was the way a shuttle was supposed to work. considering that Freespacer crafts are built exceptionally sturdy and durable but without shield, it seemed fair. DR 3... ok, but i'd have to get rid of all the fluff text that describes the craft as "exceptionally robust and durable". Not a problem for me, but it kinda was its "selling point".

As I noted, I am trying to steer you towards where we are heading vs. where we are coming from when it comes to these types of designs. DR 3 is still robust and durable for a shuttle in my opinion. Its likely the stats will change for it anyway when the newer statistics systems have been finalized.

 

[Toshiro]

I guess my primary concern with the speeds is that because of the Nepleslian/Freespacer tech sharing, I don't know whether to consider you in the poor or average FTL bracket. I'm pretty sure you were in the poor one before the tech sharing occurred.

However, I would be willing to grant some leeway perhaps, though I'd want you below the Nepleslian Military speeds (No Average Fast. Your people are just starting to break into FTL tech as a serious venture, I believe, so let's keep it reasonable at an average-slow, tops...assuming you replace the power source with something with a little more juice.

I cannot grant you speeds in excess of 1000c unless you change that power source. The energy to drive advanced or even normal STL simply isn't in a single nuclear fission reactor. You'd be hard pressed to run a small CDD even on a fusion reactor.

(I recently got a submission approved using a sort of optimized micro CDD running on a fusion reactor, but it could only go for 370c, and had to stop to refuel every 3 days. It also couldn't carry a volume exceeding a 2m diameter sphere. Just to give you an idea of what I consider the minimalist power needs of a CDD to be. The Admins can overrule me on this, though.)

 

[Exhack]

If need be, try 2 fusion or fission reactors as opposed to one. 3 would be just as fine, assuming you're using ultracompact reactors.

 

[Toshiro]

Fusion maybe. Fission...it still might not be enough.

Honestly, I see no reason to use Fission over Fusion save the radiation generation for your people--which can be generated in other ways, I'm sure.

Another plus with Fusion is that you can use Matter Collectors to siphon Hydrogen from space and recharge your reactor's fuel in mid-space flight.


The precursors to the Nepleslians likely discovered Fusion energy a thousand years ago. As such, I expect it to be a very refined, compact, and efficient technology when built correctly.

Out of spare parts like these Travellers? Well...let's just say I wouldn't want a poorly made FISSION reactor any more than a poorly made fusion one.

 

[Soresu]

Indeed, the DRIP drive on previous Zen Arms shuttle designs was a tad unstable I believe and was infact a fusion engine. Though I think those were a little bit of a 'rush job' so to speak. Why not simply two compact fusion generators? Would likely support the power needs of the ship in conjunction to the matter converters. Or use a heavy water fusion generator (Freespacers have a bit of a ration going on water I believe *can't remember*) If you can't use a heavy water fusion generator, two standard fusion generators (with them being small enough to fit inside of the shuttle) should cover your energy needs.

 

[Della]

If need be, try 2 fusion or fission reactors as opposed to one. 3 would be just as fine, assuming you're using ultracompact reactors.

Well, Freespacers use a lot of fission energy (their larger ships have every single system powered by a redundant array of microreactors: the Failover page says "Those systems that do require power are all sustained with secondary dwarf reactor vessels placed in nearby proximity"), so I guess they could reasonably fit several reactors even on a very small ship.
And they are experts of "maximum bang for minimum buck" of a sort, so maybe they can get more out of good old fission. Not having shields or other complex systems that require high energy expenditures probably helps, too

As for why fission and not fusion, meh, I don't know.
Going by the Freespacer paradigm (adaptability, versatility, redundancy), it'd make sense to me for them to use both fission and fusion simultaneously.
After all, you can obtain radioactive isotopes from fusion, too (via neutron radiation).
But all other Freespacer ships apparently use only fission, so I'm officially stumped.
I hope Jessica will notice this thread and come to my rescue.

 

[Della]

ok, talked with jessica and changed some stuff.

how's now?

 

[Toshiro]

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