[UOC] 'Arbitrator' Military Sidearm

[DocTomoe]

https://wiki.stararmy.com/doku.php?id=un ... tor_pistol

The Arbitrator has been designed to be utilized by military level units within the UOC Peacekeeper Force and the LSDF. The art is a little rough around the edges, I realized how ugly the art looked after uploading, but since I can't delete it I've decided to go with it until a suitable replacement is made and a wiki mod can remove those versions.

So, for now, the rough colored versions will do. :lol:

 

[Doshii Jun]

Main problem: You can't just replace the "assemblies." You have to replace the slide, too.

All of those calibers fire at different pressures, using different slide recoil springs and firing pin springs. Barrels are a given. But the slides have to be different, too — your 4.6 mm cartridge won't produce the same pressures as the 12 mm. Those slides will be incredibly heavy to take the 12 mm, even with the strongest recoil spring; the 4.6 mm likely won't be able to push that kind of slide.

You need lighter slides for the lighter calibers, or heavier slides for the heaviest calibers.

There's also the problem of the lengths of the larger calibers. You don't know the lengths. Good job on the 35 mm rounds, but are you sure the rest will fit into your pistol? By the way, is 35 mm the entire round, or just the case length? That confuses me.

The main complaint I have about this weapon is related, but different — why on earth do you have THAT many calibers? The Lorath weapons you have that utilize multiple calibers do so in a far more effective way. This requires producing huge numbers of various parts and assemblies, not to mention cases and powder types, and not all the calibers listed are even remotely necessary.

4.6 mm — a PDW caliber of one sort or another. OK, that works.

5.58 mm (.22-caliber) — Another PDW caliber? What for? What does it do that 4.6 mm fails to do?

7.63 mm (.30-caliber) — What is this getting you that the first two fail to?

9.1 mm (true .38-caliber) — A standard police/military round. Cool.

10 mm — Another police/military round? What does this get you that 9.1 mm doesn't?

NAM 12 mm — A rocket caliber. Are you cleared to use what is supposed to be a caliber for a military-only sidearm? Do you even know if the grip will fit the cartridge?

LSDF 12 mm — No picojelly here for this pistol, so how does the breechface reshape itself to fire a caseless round? What round is it even firing? If it's firing the revolver round, I hope you have a totally new assembly for it, as it'll require one to fire rimmed rounds.

And wait a minute, I'm sorry — 2,500 fps? Are you kidding me? Doc, that's faster than a lot of rifle rounds. That's crazy fast; the slugs are either incredibly light, making them nigh-on useless, or the pressures being generated to fire these slugs are immense! Far too much for a mere pistol, especially a compact one!

You do realize that having a gun that compact will harm the ballistics on all of the rounds, right? Especially the PDW ones.

All in all, Doc, this is endemic of your design style — too much tossed into one package. It's too complex in areas it does not need to be, and sorely lacking in details it could use. Barrel lengths, thickness of gun at its widest point, grip panels used, if any, and so on.

 

[DocTomoe]

Alright, I've done some small adjustments to the article, the remaining vague bits I'll explain here.

First off, I did intend for the slide of the upper assembly to be replaced in the process of rotating out assemblies. Its a matter of being able to just de-attach the whole top-end of the pistol and fit on another to allow for a Peacekeeper to carry one or two variants of the upper assembly on them to allow them to switch calibers easily.

As for pressures, the issue is moot with the changing of the slide portion of the pistol in the process of changing upper assemblies to accommodate alternative ammunition.

As for the round size, the 35mm length is the case, as noted in the footnote near there. The bullet itself would be situated deeper within the bottleneck of the casing for some of the larger calibers.

In regard to the speed of the round, I was basing the velocity off of the 5.7 x 28mm, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5.7x28mm , I bumped up the speed only because of the size of the casing being much larger than that of the 5.7x28mm. However, I'll bump it down a smidge.

In regard to the PDW performance, I would have to disagree and sight the Five-seveN, which is capable of performing quite nicely with it's rather tiny round.

As for the caliber variety, I shall explain the use of each;

4.6mm, Selected to allow for optimal light-armor penetration. The small size of the bullet allows for it to enter the target individual and pass through, without causing excess shock to the surrounding organs and tissues along the bullet's travel path.

5.58mm, Selected for taking out unarmored soft targets, its larger width would reduce it's capability to penetrate armor, yet it would still be capable of excess speeds and it's greater mass would increase the inflicted wound size and the shock induced to the target.

7.63mm, Its getting me more kinetic impact energy, and far more stability if obstacles are between the shooter and the target such as glass, foliage, or lighter wall materials.

9.1mm, Yeah, Kim likes it.

10mm, It delivers increased kinetic energy on impact, and it's larger shape inflicts a far wider wound upon the target. Additionally, since the Peacekeeper force is populated by former 5th XF, there would be a populace which are quite fond of 10mm ammunition and would be far more familiar with it's impact characteristics.

NAM 12mm, I added a blurb about the tooling of the weapon to accommodate the caliber. As for the availability... I would suggest looking at the individual character relations with governments, such as Yuriko, whom is in possession of a HHG for example. It is a reasonable assumption that if the UOC were to continue to forge positive ties with the Nepleslian Democratic Imperium, that there would be a market for 12mm ammunition.

LSDF 12mm, A designation I whipped up for the .50 utilized by the Lorath for the Hand Cannon. Additionally, I added the blurb regarding specialized tooling for a pistol which would accommodate the round.

Finally, on the matter of details; I did what was asked of me for the template. I filled in the blanks that were needed, and have provided a bit more information than some of the other weapons which have been approved. If I need to do something special here, I'd like to know why.

 

[Doshii Jun]

Alright, I've done some small adjustments to the article, the remaining vague bits I'll explain here.

First off, I did intend for the slide of the upper assembly to be replaced in the process of rotating out assemblies. Its a matter of being able to just de-attach the whole top-end of the pistol and fit on another to allow for a Peacekeeper to carry one or two variants of the upper assembly on them to allow them to switch calibers easily.

As for pressures, the issue is moot with the changing of the slide portion of the pistol in the process of changing upper assemblies to accommodate alternative ammunition.

Cool. I still question the necessity, but that's moot, as long as Andrew and Kim are willing to roll with it.

As for the round size, the 35mm length is the case, as noted in the footnote near there. The bullet itself would be situated deeper within the bottleneck of the casing for some of the larger calibers.

... I'm not sure that entirely works, as seating a bullet deeper into a case can eliminate valuable space between powder and bullet. But OK, design bullets to accommodate that, it's fine.

In regard to the speed of the round, I was basing the velocity off of the 5.7 x 28mm, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5.7x28mm , I bumped up the speed only because of the size of the casing being much larger than that of the 5.7x28mm. However, I'll bump it down a smidge.

Now we're getting somewhere. Doc, you applied one speed to an entire class of cartridges. You can't do that. The cartridges act differently. I know you took those calibers from real-life rounds, so please apply those speeds instead of a blanket 2,500 fps.

For instance, the 9.1 mm round is probably closer to 1,400 fps. That's still significantly faster than a modern, 9 mm Para +P round and will easily fuck up armor all the way to Level III.

In regard to the PDW performance, I would have to disagree and sight the Five-seveN, which is capable of performing quite nicely with it's rather tiny round.

Agree to disagree.

As for the caliber variety, I shall explain the use of each;

1. 4.6mm, Selected to allow for optimal light-armor penetration. The small size of the bullet allows for it to enter the target individual and pass through, without causing excess shock to the surrounding organs and tissues along the bullet's travel path.

2. 5.58mm, Selected for taking out unarmored soft targets, its larger width would reduce it's capability to penetrate armor, yet it would still be capable of excess speeds and it's greater mass would increase the inflicted wound size and the shock induced to the target.

3. 7.63mm, Its getting me more kinetic impact energy, and far more stability if obstacles are between the shooter and the target such as glass, foliage, or lighter wall materials.

4. 9.1mm, Yeah, Kim likes it.

5. 10mm, It delivers increased kinetic energy on impact, and it's larger shape inflicts a far wider wound upon the target. Additionally, since the Peacekeeper force is populated by former 5th XF, there would be a populace which are quite fond of 10mm ammunition and would be far more familiar with it's impact characteristics.

6. NAM 12mm, I added a blurb about the tooling of the weapon to accommodate the caliber. As for the availability... I would suggest looking at the individual character relations with governments, such as Yuriko, whom is in possession of a HHG for example. It is a reasonable assumption that if the UOC were to continue to forge positive ties with the Nepleslian Democratic Imperium, that there would be a market for 12mm ammunition.

7. LSDF 12mm, A designation I whipped up for the .50 utilized by the Lorath for the Hand Cannon. Additionally, I added the blurb regarding specialized tooling for a pistol which would accommodate the round.

R1. Like I said, a PDW round. No qualms here.

R2. ... You're trying to treat it like a rifle round. Don't. It's not being fired from a rifle. It's being fired from a pistol. You know how well .223 Remington does ballistics-wise from a pistol? Shitty. Very shitty. This round has less barrel length and less powder to propel it; it does absolutely nothing that your 4.6 mm or 9.1 mm round can't do better.

What you described is your 9.1 mm round. That's what your Peacekeeper .38 does. You don't need this round.

R3. You're not firing .308 Winchester here, Doc! Stop treating the pistol like it's a rifle. What you're suggesting doesn't work. The bullet just won't have the energy you're looking for to act like a superior sniping cartridge would.

Your Peacekeeper .38 is perfectly capable of dealing with walls, foilage or glass.

On top of that — and I'm highlighting this so everyone can see it, not to beat you with it — pistols don't generate enough energy to transfer into a target, aka "stopping power." They just don't. Rifles don't even do it very well, considering what happens to most animals when they're shot, and rifles with proper cartridges can produce incredible energies. The recoil you feel in your arms and hands is as good as it gets, so don't throw up this stopping-power/energy-transfer business. If the FBI doesn't believe in it because the science says it isn't there, neither should you.

R4. I actually love it! It's pretty long, but it's got great potential. I can't wait to see it in an SMG!

R5. The kinetic impacts between your 9.1 mm and this 10 mm round are actually going to be small, as the case is the same length. The 9.1 mm round will actually perform better. As for familiarity, there won't be any with this round — you've given the 5th XF a new gun with a totally new (and much more powerful) cartridge. Unless you just give them back their 10 x 25 mm, or reduce this cartridge's load, you're going to need a lot of additional training time.

I seriously would just kill this round.

R6. What individual characters can steal or somehow obtain isn't a concern here. It's a military-only round. I don't care how reasonable it is that they might get it. They don't have it yet and until they do get it from NAM, this part of your submission's not getting the OK.

R7. Works.

tl;dr: Andrew likes options, I know, but he doesn't need this many. Your 4.6 mm and Peacekeeper .38 rounds are more than satisfactory for all applications you're attempting.

Finally, on the matter of details; I did what was asked of me for the template. I filled in the blanks that were needed, and have provided a bit more information than some of the other weapons which have been approved. If I need to do something special here, I'd like to know why.

Fair enough. I was mostly annoyed with all the stuff about the calibers. The other details I mentioned are ones that I like to have personally, as I've had to make them up for other guns along the way. But hey, so it goes.

 

[DocTomoe]

Alright, dropped the 7.63 and 10mm. Keeping the 5.56 simply because I like the caliber.

I've also added footnotes on the KZ 10mm and NAM 12mm availabilities involving special authorization. I would also like to remind you that the Arbitrator is not a civilian pistol, its strictly kept to the LSDF and Peacemakers, as noted at the top of the page in regard to the price and availability.

 

[Doshii Jun]

Military-only deal is cool. But I'm sorry, Doc, you need to remove the rocket caliber entirely. No one has permission from NAM to use that caliber, and unless you explicitly state in the article that you basically reverse-engineer or steal that ammunition, you can't use it.

 

[DocTomoe]

Edited out until authorization can be given from a Nepleslia mod. Problem solved.

 

[Doshii Jun]

Thank you, Doc. I know it irks ya, but I'm glad you're rolling with it.

 

[Soresu]

With all the 'kinks' worked out I suppose. This Submission Is Approved For IC Usage. Also, when you talk to a nep mod, would be nice if you left a blurb. :3

 

[MoonMan]

Moonie gives the A-OK for the limited purchase of 12mm RPB rounds, depending on the buyer. It's NAM made, so scrutiny and security would be an expected high, but no impossible.