Updating The Character Creation Guide

One of my big goals for this year is to revamp the character creation guide. Right now, we have some great articles but only for specific jobs in specific species, such as "Create a newborn neko in the Star Army of Yamatai" or "Create a Nepleslian space marine," but these only represent part of what roleplay our SARPiverse is capable of supporting.

So, I'm going to be looking for ways to improve the Character Creation Guide (CCG) with things like:

1) Empowering players by pushing for thread-based RPs that anyone can create and participate in, instead of having the RP only be in forums with GMs (note: the current type of RP will still be around too).

2) Making guides for creating non-cookie-cutter characters instead of pushing for the common mold.

3) Making a really great and inspiring independent character section that allows players to create their own adventurer characters.

I'm hoping for your help and input - together we can take what we have and unlock even more potential to allow more members to tell more stories through a combination of RP styles.

I'll admit, I'm confused by the sudden shift in #2. For quite some time, myself (and one or two others) have been fighting against changes towards character creation being more cookie-cutter, cut and paste style, and have been consistently overruled (thus my declining participation).

No offense intended, but what brought on the change of heart? I'm all for it, but the lack of consistency concerns me.

My guess would be trial and error finally proved the cookie-cutter method to not be very successful.

That's been the case for long before those changes were made though. We've always had the most success from the players and characters who obviously had some thought going on, even if they weren't massively detailed, never so much from the quick, normal characters that are mostly c/p stuff. These arguments were pointed out when the changes were being made and overruled on more then one occasion.

If that's all it is, great, I just wondered if there was something more.

Cookie Cutter is good for getting players in fast, but with the recent changes, the characters are more like characters in an MMORPG, which is two dimensional and nothing interesting or unique.

Detailed characters take longer, and sometimes the lack of details available in the site can cause issues with creating a good background. So we need a middle ground. With good instructions and perhaps reward those players who come up with a good character in some way.

So ... we want to go against the direction we've had for years. OK. I can go for that.

I think this is opening up a whole can of worms, though. We're going to have loose players on the site, not interacting with people, not helping with the setting, not invested in what's going on. We'll have really unique characters who get no attention.

You've pushed for this for at least a year, Wes, and it's your site. I believe you won't get the returns you want.

Are we going to address maintaining proper canon in the setting with these loose, plotless players? I question if that's even a real concern, as these threads likely won't get taken very seriously.

I agree with Doshii on the idea of personal plots etc.

I think the best thing would be an overall outline of the plot that has to be accepted before they can open it. Basically stuff that only affects your own character should be fine for the most part but there should be a limit on stuff that affects the setting, even in the slightest.

I mean, we can expect some people to go out and ruin do something that affects the setting. Like causing an explosion is a heavily populated area. That would be something that affects the entire faction as it will be shown on the news etc. With all these solo plots we might not have the time or means to keep track of what happens everywhere in the universe.

Instead of open plots, what if we have Free GM's that are given authority over specific locations, and rather than being forced to make a plot, they are rather intended to facilitate the roleplay of these 'free' characters? We can make some pages pointing these 'free' characters to facilitated areas, such as space stations (Dawn, Golding, Pisces, etc) or larger cities (Kyoto, Funky city, Prime city)

This could serve two purposes:
1) To allow new players some more freedom of choice in where to go and what to do with their independent characters, while keeping them out of major trouble and

2) Allow more senior players, who have knowledge of the setting, but no GM experience, to gain some basic GMing experience without needing them to make an actual specific plot.

Thread RPs are the under the jurisdiction of the faction managers, who can decide whether they want something to be canon or not. In most cases, we should try to be flexible and accept the thread based RPs as having effects on the universe. It's also okay for FMs to have GMs or delegates to help them with this.

We're going to have loose players on the site, not interacting with people, not helping with the setting, not invested in what's going on. We'll have really unique characters who get no attention.

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Roleplay, like many things, is something where the amount you put into in usually determines what you get out of it. Players will need to interact with each other to be successful, and that's not a bad thing.

We need an alternative to the traditional plot where the GM is in control, plays the captain, the players play grunts, and the party goes where the GM feels like instead of making its own choices. If we get a player that says "I want to make an RP thread where my freespacer travels the galaxy visiting all the major factions to gain their culinary knowledge" or something I want them to be able to do it. I think that playing a Star Army soldier is a core part of the Star Army RP...but there's more to us than that, and I think giving players some freedom could be a key to making the site more engaging and popular.

It's too much effort for too unlikely a gain to convince you away from this path. I'll try to support it instead, but know it's likely not going to work out the way you want. New players either will have to convince other players to play with them, or you're going to have to force GMs/delegates to RP with them.

Wouldn't an Idea that in order to have your own plot you also have to be active in one of the larger plots on the site?

I remember that we have tried individual plot threads before but they never really caught on. I generate one shot threads when I want to write outside of my plots but I have a better grasp on the setting than a playeer fresh to the site. But, we could try the supplement pack idea I created years ago.

This morning in the shower I was thinking about some sort of tutorial zone where new indie characters starting with nothing would have a richly described place to start and there would be suggested RP tasks like:

1. Do an odd job for a faction to gain reputation and money.
2. Access the communications networks or go to a store; buy equipment.
3. Meet up with another player for RP
4. Work on getting a shuttle.
5. Travel to another planet.

Well, recently SI 4 went totally player-directed. It's not exactly the plot where I would put 'new people', but it is interesting food for thought.

Why not have another plot like the boot camp Jimmy and a couple of other GMs used to run, that's collectively GM'd by the community?

Pisces could've served as the Nepleslian/Yamataian port, though some could argue that it'd be 'too yamataian'.

Perhaps then Origin's Dawn Station could also be a possible alternative to promote this way? It happens to be situated slightly further northward, which would grant greater exposure to other species accessing the same port (Freespacers, Gartagens, Iroma and Lorath).

Fred said:

Pisces could've served as the Nepleslian/Yamataian port, though some could argue that it'd be 'too yamataian'.

Perhaps then Origin's Dawn Station could also be a possible alternative to promote this way? It happens to be situated slightly further northward, which would grant greater exposure to other species accessing the same port (Freespacers, Gartagens, Iroma and Lorath).

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I agree with this.

After reading back over this thread more throughly, I also want to point out that generally speaking, it's not going to get anywhere if we jab fingers at Wes and be like, "You did this! Woo!" I mean, essentially this seems like a good idea.

We need an alternative to the traditional plot where the GM is in control, plays the captain, the players play grunts, and the party goes where the GM feels like instead of making its own choices. If we get a player that says "I want to make an RP thread where my freespacer travels the galaxy visiting all the major factions to gain their culinary knowledge" or something I want them to be able to do it. I think that playing a Star Army soldier is a core part of the Star Army RP...but there's more to us than that, and I think giving players some freedom could be a key to making the site more engaging and popular.

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I like Luca.

Ok, so what does that have to do with anything?

Luca has the longest-running freeform plot on Star Army. He has a very loose GM style - he lets people write big, grand things, go places, and do anything. The sky is the limit in Luca's plot. But many of the things that make his plot interesting to read aren't the action scenes, in my personal opinion, it's the character interaction and the minor things that go on in the asides. He's dedicated to having fun, but what makes it all an interesting read is that although it's a 'cheap thrills' sort of thing on the outside, on the inside, it's beginning to get pretty deep.

That's a good example of a 'free' plot with a good GM. But even that had a direction - as though plots are stories. If memory serves, another plot is about to be struck up by SSharp that's a bounty-hunter plot that's going to be pretty free and easy; not a military plot, but a civilian or even a criminal plot. To me, that sounds really exciting.

I don't think you could really get that with freeform RP, which is why I prefer SARP to freeform RP forums. Freeform RP is very self-motivated, and requires a burning drive to write something, but it's too easy to get burnt out if nobody wants to RP with you and forcing people to tend to things other than their plots - and really, it would likely be the GMs picking up that particular slack - can burn us out, too.

When I came into SARP I wrote a lot of freeform RP - and then I joined Miharu, and although I would update my "One Shot" page every once in a while, I have since completely stopped. My GM duties, and the number of plots I am in currently, keep me more than occupied whenever I want to write.

On the other hand, this is a good point.

As far as I am concerned, I think I can kind of grasp where you are going with this. I have one character - Morioka - who exists cross-plot. I used her in the IRC, and she has made appearances in the Gartagen forum with Ira's Redak, and then of course she is available for use within Yamatai broadly as an empire. It might not be 100% traditional, but I find it fun for my own reasons, and although I might not have explained this clearly enough, when I opened a sort of 'officers corps' in my plot it was with this sort of setting and plot flexibility in mind. Most notably, Ember, Kim's character, now has the same flexibility as Morioka. She can go cross-plot, or appear, pretty much, where-ever Kim wants to write her - though logically she'd appear only near the Yugumo cluster as this is where her duty takes her.

I guess, perhaps, encouraging people to make side-characters or NPCs on a similar principle might be fun, but I am not sure it is a viable way to introduce - or keep - new players. Typically, without direction, not only new players but also old hands tend to feel left out of things.

So what I am saying is, +1 to expanding the character creation guide, +1 to encouraging new players, and +? to freeform roleplay.

My question is; what is the core problem responsible for this line of thinking? Is it that we do not have enough GMs to take in all the new players coming in? Are there not enough variety of plots to keep everybody interested? Perhaps if we knew the core problem we could find a cure in a different direction.

Gallant said:

My question is; what is the core problem responsible for this line of thinking? Is it that we do not have enough GMs to take in all the new players coming in? Are there not enough variety of plots to keep everybody interested? Perhaps if we knew the core problem we could find a cure in a different direction.

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I think there is a shortage of GMs for the major factions, particularly Neplelsia - In one recent week alone we had 4 new players all heading to 4th Fleet. And I do think there's room for more variety in plots. But mainly I want players to have a way to explore the setting in an heroic adventurer sort of way instead of an simulation/amusement park way. I want to allow more people to make a difference.

Here's what I've got so far.

I have to admit, I like this idea as well. However, there are already complications that will arise from it involving the Canon.

"Canon"

I'm sorry, but I hate the very sight of that word on these forums. I kind of get it with Star Wars, or Star Trek. But with SARP, I feel it just makes us sound stuck up.

Back to topic, though...

The problem with this idea, I think, is practicallity. Not everyone can pull off the independent adventurer, especially from the beginning. Some managed - I'm thinking about Toshiro here - but it doesn't mean it's easy.

Why am I saying that? Because people have a weaning period in which they are introduced to SARP and get to know the setting. It's not easy! The benefits of having GMs around is that they are people whom animate the setting and help make it feel larger than life. They teach how the setting is to new players beyond all that information in the SARPwiki by allowing them to live in them.

Luca may run a freeform RP, and might depict an independent character around which others have gathered... but Luca also had the benefit of being a introduced to SARP as a player of Doshii's Goban plot. Would Luca have fared nearly so well on his own without that window of entry to help him along?

Being a newcomer to the site poses important limitations that, in my mind, largely overshadows the simple wish to allow 'more independent players'. The wish is nice, but I don't think it's very feasible or realistic for complete newbies to come in, decide to go independent with their own small ship, and be expected to experience what the Star Army roleplay is to the rest of us.

Once they have their feet wet, sure. But before that I have big doubts about it. It certainly doesn't seem conductive to the retention of new members as well. Sometimes allowing too much freedom is like allowing too little.

Being a new person should not be a penalty. Yes we have had new people who just do not match the expectations put on them.

We have vets who do the same thing. We do not need to become elitist snobs who sit on their porches shouting "GET OFF MY LAWN." At the young kids trying to play free tag.

Encouraging free form RP is a good way to go for this site, and it has my support. Like wise it should be handled well, and in away that does not disrupt all the hard work we have established in the story. In order for us to put these stories in the spot light, we would need to make some minor changes in the way things are viewed, how things are done as far as story elements go (Butt holes will twitch is somebody ends up making their new independent character destroy a Ketsurui samurai with a simple eye brow perk). We also need to be more progressive and less stagnant when it comes to allowing new elements and character types creep on in.