Variable Defense Pods

Fred · Feb 23, 2006

KFY W2903 Variable Defense Pods

The Type-29 fleet program called for a streamlining of the Star Army's current fleets in adjustment to the method of warfare observed in the last couple of years. Greater emphasis was placed on Strategic Pool ship classes such as the Nozomi-class scoutships and the Sakura-class gunships for longer ranged missions away from the command core of a fleet raised a concern over a cheap and efficient way to provide the smaller vessels with more staying power as they were placed in situation with less support. The same could be said for civilian spaceframes that needed defensive systems of their own, but that it was undesirable to mount military grade weaponry.

The 'Variable Defense Pods', based on the Od-series of Starship Orbital Support Drones, allowed a relatively cheap way of changing the mission loadout of a vessel without giving existant Star Army vessels (both military and civilian) a need for an exhaustive overhaul while diversifying their capabilities.

These series of 'defensive pods' come in three varieties - similarly to their more offensive-oriented weapon pod counterparts : Point shield generator pods, which would serve to cover gaps in shielding or to add a second layer of protection over a vulnerable section of a vessel; Shield Augmentation pods, whom would serve to reinforce shield strength and effectiveness to insure the ship's shields would be able to survive harder hits; and Ablative Armor Repair pods, whom would repair the ship's ablative armor layer to cope for what hits did get through.

The pods otherwise function just like the variable weapon pods : they are generated the same way, displatched to float around a vessel and adjust their position to react to threat or damage sustained.

The Variable Defense Pods are one of the new defensive systems that are to be a part of the new Type-29 Nekovalkyrja Escort (tentatively dubbed Kochou-class at the moment) that I currently am designing. It's an unapplied idea for variable pods that can be used easily and is based on existing technology (the SOSDs, which are cool and don't seem to be of much use).

While the defensive pods do leave Star Army vessels without their usual short-to-medium range weaponry, they should be able to increase their staying power a lot more. It does leave them without an effective way to destroy smaller units such as power armors, but, I felt this could only benefit the players of Power Armor pilots, whom would have a much more solid role in future engagements.

Zack · Feb 23, 2006

How is this any more useful than the internal repair systems, current orbit weapons and ect? Especially when shields general consist of things that can't be reinforced such as the mini-universe bubble?

Also, how does this increase staying power at all when small point defense weapons and small shield boosts are weighed against the quick kills of large weapons?

Fred · Feb 23, 2006

Internal repair systems do not save a ship from incurring damage initially. This can lead to damage on internal systems, hull breaches and possibly loss of crew. Many of the smaller SA ships have a very small crew in the first place, so, it's not a ressource a ship should lose if it can be avoided.

As to their protective quality, surviving ship-to-ship combat is the point of the defense pods. Star Army shields can fail and be penetrated. Having the VDPs move in position to a threatened part of the ship can help migigate the damage caused by locally improving the shielding and adding a second layer of protection - shield augmentation SOSD were designed to reinforce the shield bubble, by the way. Multiple shield systems can interact together as well, as shown by ships like the Yushi (main shield & 'spike').

Furthermore, retrieving Power Armor and other crafts in combat is very hazardous considering the shield bubble must be brought down. The VDPs, however, can compensate for that. It's certainly better than nothing.

Zack · Feb 23, 2006

Internal repair systems are the same thing as your repair pods, only defended by the ship's internal systems and sense even the smallest SA ships have these systems it makes the orbit version useless.

Micromanaging of shields is also fairly useless as one hit from a quantum detonator or other generic big weapon will total the ship anyways. The most protection these shields would be able to provide would be against the smaller weapons which don't do much damage to the ship in the first place, so there would be no massive boost in survivability.

The primary objective of these systems, to increase survivability of small ships, is not met in the least by the simple addition of watered down systems that the ship already has.

Edit: I also want to add that there is very little technical infromation on what shields are being used and ect.

Fred · Feb 23, 2006

I am not ready to accept that the weapon pods can dish out 'extremely heavy' damage and that the defensive pods, with similar output, would prove only a 'measly' protection in comparison. That doesn't hold up any water for me.

Also, I am not saying that the VDP can protect from quantum detonators and the like. The WARMS unit is made to circumvent those. However, there is a good number of other anti-starship weaponry which can prove a serious threat, such as projected aether beams, torpedoes, position railgun, particle cannons and the like.

Also, if a Chiharu's shield can allow it to survive a AS-7 torpedo while a Irim's shield can't shows that shield strength does matter. I'm sure that the next Nozomi scout stuck 'holding off' 3 SMX destroyers until a Sakura gunship can come by and vaporize them with it's aether shock cannon will be very happy to have a considerably better protection that might allow it to stay alive and kicking until it's allies come to the scene.

To approach the repair system, I'll point out that the Pod is named Ablative Armor Repair Pod for a good reason : it's meant to help regenerate damage caused to the layer of ablative armor that SA ships can cover themselves with in combat situation. It doesn't fix hull or system : it takes charge of the ablative armor ~outside~ the ship and it does so quickly... though the extent of the damage really determines just how quick the repairs are done, of course.

Zack · Feb 23, 2006

The ablative armor repair is virtually useless as the ship can still do that itself. The weapons you mentioned, if they can do damage to a much larger target with more powerful shields would be able to cut through a orbit shield system easily enough.

Fred · Feb 23, 2006

Uso Tasuki, please bother reading the paragraph written in my last post. Ablative armor regenerates; the pods help it regenerate faster.

Nekos regenerate on their own. Have them lose a limb and they'll regrow it with time. Dunk them in a pool of hemosynth liquid and it'll be much faster. Same thing.

Shield augmentation pod makes the shield they assist stronger. The point defense pods form a second wall behind that. Projected aether might still be deviated. Aether bombardment (such as an explosion) can be blunted - a collision can be countered with an intercepting pod even if that's what it takes. The momentum behind a solid object can be blunted further so that it wouldn't hurt as bad even if it did get through.

That's much like electricity. If you put a resistance in the way, the current going through would be reduced some. Put a second resistance in the way and the current will still be reduced. I'm not a science whiz... but I did get through physics in high school >_>

Karma Mechanic · Feb 23, 2006

I think that this is an acceptable use of pre-existing technology, and it is something that could be put to very good use on things like the older Yui class ships. It makes much more sence, IC the Type 29 fleet program was ment to stop an extreme waste of resorses, that being said this allows a cheaper way to add a little something to the "older" ships easily, instead of the current policy of remaking current ships and/or designing a new model of ship every other month.

Uso Tasuki said:
The ablative armor repair is virtually useless as the ship can still do that itself. The weapons you mentioned, if they can do damage to a much larger target with more powerful shields would be able to cut through a orbit shield system easily enough.

If you look at the data on SA ship self hull repair time, its very poor, when thought of in the context of an emergency situation.

Uso Tasuki said:
Edit: I also want to add that there is very little technical infromation on what shields are being used and ect.

I think one of the reasons behind that is that they contain as much real science as alchemy.

Fred · Feb 23, 2006

Another thing I thought could be done was, if they become mainstream technology instead of a novelty installed on a new ship class, ship pod loadouts could very well be split between weapon and defense pods.

A Sakura gunship could have 18 VDP and 18 VWP, for example. Alternatively, it could be all of one kind or the other if a future engagement could be planned out. Roles of some ships could be optimized that way. I wouldn't be surprised to have a Strategic Pool battlegroup to have the ship of the highest ranked officer have defense pods, for example. The idea would be to soak a large amount of punishment over dealing the most dmaage since that ship would probably be in a command role.

Though that probably won't happen until YE 30.

Zack · Feb 23, 2006

You aren't really optimiseing a ship if you are just adding more stuff onto it.

Fred · Feb 23, 2006

*cough* Why don't you check out the following link first :
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=optimize

Now, it's not adding stuff. It's trading off one thing for another. If a ship has 36 weapon pods, I expect it to keep the same number of total pods.

Zack · Feb 23, 2006

Ah, I had the impression that these would be additional orbit units in additon to the ones already in place.

Karma Mechanic · Feb 23, 2006

Kotori is too quick for me lol. (I had to write a new post)

From the Yui 4 description:

"Ketsurui Fleet Yards' Ki-PDV-2 Weapons Pods (56): The ship's hull has 16 panels on the upper hull and 12 on the lower hull that can create custom pods to fight specific enemies. Each panel holds two disk-like pods, doubling the amount of point-defense weapons the ship had in models before the 4e......"

They create custom pods, so basicly this allows the ship, to create pods for more than just offensive reasons. It's a simple modification to existing technology, that makes a lot of sence to me.

Edit: Damn, Uso is being too quick for me also... (I'm slow today I guess.)

Fred · Feb 23, 2006

I'm not sure where ship's like the Yui, the Nozomi and the Sakura find the space to fit in 36+ pods in their hull considering the size of those pods, so no, I'm not about to suggest we double that amount! XD

Besides, adding additional launchers and storage space would mean a significant overhaul of the ships already in service. That's not too convenient. Changing the launched unit themselves really seemed to be a better idea. The -IES computers just have to be given the recipe for making the VDPs and voila! The ship can recycle it's existing VWP and replace them as they like. The power grid and operation behind the pod would have to be redone - but a change like that is the sort of thing that could be communicated through the PANTHEON through a ship's next refit cycle.

(anyone notice how many pods the Yui scout destroyers have? 56 = wow. )

Edit : Ack. ~_~

Karma Mechanic · Feb 23, 2006

I don't think anyone sugested doubling the number of pods, If you are perhaps refering to the one part in the quote of the Yui 4, it was just saying how the version of pods in the current version were superior over the previous.

I don't think there is any need to add more. But what you said is the main idea I have, that the upgrade has a lot more to do with software, and could be uploaded to all the ships that already have VWP tech. Meaning that there is almost no use of SA resourses.

Vesper · Feb 23, 2006

K, YSA shield systems utilize a form of space-time warpage to produce both the propulsion and defense. This means that any generators must balance there effect perfectly or the system will fail. This means that the generators must be placed in precise locations, stay in precise locations, and react dynamically in a extremely rapid manner (actually, instantly) to changes in the field geometry (such as weapons striking it) or it will cause degrading effects on the systems performance.

Further, in a Alcubierre-type system (on which the warp drive, and thus the CFD, is obviously based) the generator is sitting in a patch of ideally zero space curvature surrounded by the massively bent space of the drive's field. Now, the main generator on the ship exists at the center of the field so the ship around it does not feel anywhere near the brunt of the curving space. However, if another generator is introduced somewhere else that is not the center of the field, its effects will not line up perfectly with the main generator. While these secondaries can have a boosting effect if synchronized properly with the primary (see above paragraph) in local regions of the field, the other segments of said field will not be in "phaseâ€

Karma Mechanic · Feb 23, 2006

I see you jumped on that point(too much typing for me), I was hoping that if they have to have there sheild generation pods they wouldn't be based on the space warping model. But anyway I like the armour repair pods most (because they're the most unlikely to violate the laws of the universe).

Fred · Feb 23, 2006

Okay Vesper, you just said a great deal of stuff that looks ~very~ scary to argue against, so, I'll just point at the sources on the forum's established technology and duck my head before your next argument completely crushes me ^_^

Field adjustments like you mentioned should - no, make that would - be dealt with by the ship's on board computer. Take a look at the MEGAMI-IES *points Sakura gunship*. the MEGAMI can apparently do a great deal of very nifty stuff, some things possibly even more complicated than what you mentioned.

What I do know is that the SOSDs of the Od series (Ki-Od1 and Od2) were in existence before and pretty much did that already... so, in the SARP universe, this is supposed to work (or else they wouldn't have been invented along with the Shaman-class SOSD carrier vessel - not to mention the SOSDs find use on the Yui scout destroyers extension masts and the Mindy power armors).

It's nothing new, but it just hasn't ever been made in variable pod form.

Zack · Feb 23, 2006

Actually QnS produced a similar thing for their ships a while back.

Cora · Feb 23, 2006

Kotori, I'd just like to make mention that a majority of the tech that is used in the SARP were designed during it's "Dark Hour" when it battled other sub-fourms when it was at Aynee.

The primary use of the things created were "Win and Not lose." Thus explaining the thermodynamic viloating metals, the space/time raping weaponry and the general "Basic laws of science" ignoring everything else.

Variable Defense Pods

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