What is an aether generator made of?

[Fred]

I'd like to know. I'd like to understand the components that make an aether generator work and how it provides power to a ship, extensively, as far as Ketsurui Fleet Yard hardware is concerned.

Preferably, I don't want any links to a wiki page on the topic of aether power, scalar rays or zero-point-energy. Those, I never understand. I'd prefer a more in-dept explanation so to understand the anatomy of the system.

Please bear in mind that this is a very Wes centric question. I don't want guesses or assumptions - I want an answer on the topic. I'm hoping it'll be detailed in a fashion which will in turn help me portray the system for the Yamataian playerbase.

Thank you.

 

[Soresu]

First and foremost, Hai 2 u.

Secondly. From what has been seen and heard of the generator from what you, yourself have put up in the past, as well as Wes. We've covered how it looked on a Sakura I imagine. I could try and backtrack, and find it in the sea of past JP's, but due to the very nature of Aether... The only known material likely to withstand the torrential forces would be Zesuaium. As in the framework and likely shell. Alternatively, Yamataium could work purely due to the fact it regenerates. Either I imagine would be ideal.

As for your "Don't Wants" well...you're going to get them, either way. Since frankly, even Wes, in the past has been a tiny bit sporadic in his view of the generator. More then a few of us have different descriptions, all of which have never been called out, or disowned. So really, it may just vary from ship class to ship class unless a final, concrete design is put in place for solidity's sake on how it looks therefore putting to rest everyone's take on it.

 

[Wes]

IIRC the one on the Sakura/Plumeria has 8 sides on the top and 8 on the bottom and was Zesuaium and had an attached controller unit with an interface panel. The panels of the generator were removable for maintenance and were replaced from time to time depending on the generator usage.

 

[MissingNo]

I think he also wants to know what is inside the generator. How it does what it does and the like.

 

[Fred]

MissingNo is right. I'll try to make the job a little easier, though.

We know that aether generators have a closed assembly inside which two opposed flower-like assemblies generate scalar fields, which are in turn used to draw aether out, and something is done to harness that power.

Consider these questions to mostly apply to Sakura/Plumeria-class vessels. In all probability, the rest of KFY vessels follow suit

1. Scalar fields are mentioned. What are the apparatus used to generate them? How is the hardware powered if aether power is initially inactive? Is there additional equipment around used to prevent any possibly problematic scalar wave bleed out? As I recall, scalar waves can be harmful to both living organism, electronics and explosives.

2. Aether is formed. How does aether manifest in our universe? How does this apply inside the generator? What happens to the space the aether event occurs in (the presence of air, for example - perhaps the torch/fiery appearance of aether is something that happens in an atmosphere, and in vaccuum it looks different? Maybe the generator is vaccuum sealed, which would make repairs inside it require more consideration to maintain that before reuse?) How is the hardware used to make the aether font a local, controlled thing?... we know it can be used to much more destructive ends with an overloading generator so surely it can be potentially dangerous when the generator is compromised in some fashion. What is the process of overloading an aether generator? Aether generates enormous heat, so, can the generator system suffer hazards due to that? Does it have any dedicated cooling system? What of other power cabling and power storage considerations?

3. What harvests the power Aether makes available? If the aether comes into being between the flower petal assemblies, how is it even harvested without physical contact? (it does disintegrate things on contact, right?) Does it directly feed a vessel's power cabling or is it used to generate power in a more mechanized, motorized fashion? Is the energy being feed into the ship so powerful it requires power converters to adapt it to everyday use?

4. How does miniaturization apply to aether generators? They vary in size, from a towering structure in an engine room to a lunchbox-sized power supply with a power armor. Does miniaturization bring in select performance disadvantages and failsafes against failure that a larger shipboard generator would have? What advantages do bigger aether generators have aside from a bigger power feed next to their smaller counterparts?

 

[Nashoba]

I think that we are actually looking at two different classes of equipment generators and converters.

For Starships and other applications where large amounts of energy are required actual generators would be needed. These would probably function similar to todays nuclear reactors, Aether would be drawn into a chamber and pipes carrying a liquid of some sort would pass through it to be superheated and then passed into turbines to power electrical generators.

As for starting the process some external or redundant energy source would be needed

For the smaller applications, Power Armor and Vehicles, I think that they would be more of a coverter, Aether is drawn in and transformed directly into electricity. Because trying to fit the armor with heat exchangers, turbines and such would be impractical.

Just my thoughts...

 

[Soresu]

1. Scalar fields are mentioned. What are the apparatus used to generate them? How is the hardware powered if aether power is initially inactive? Is there additional equipment around used to prevent any possibly problematic scalar wave bleed out? As I recall, scalar waves can be harmful to both living organism, electronics and explosives.

I'd imagine an initial charge would be garnered from secondary power sources to kind of, "Jumpstart." it. Or, it comes with its own charge already to use to do the job. Apparatus, I would imagine would be within the generator itself, likely built directly into the frame, or something to shield the interior of the ship from the scalar fields generated. Not much of an answer, but hey, got to start somewhere.

2. Aether is formed. How does aether manifest in our universe? How does this apply inside the generator? What happens to the space the aether event occurs in (the presence of air, for example - perhaps the torch/fiery appearance of aether is something that happens in an atmosphere, and in vaccuum it looks different? Maybe the generator is vaccuum sealed, which would make repairs inside it require more consideration to maintain that before reuse?) How is the hardware used to make the aether font a local, controlled thing?... we know it can be used to much more destructive ends with an overloading generator so surely it can be potentially dangerous when the generator is compromised in some fashion. What is the process of overloading an aether generator? Aether generates enormous heat, so, can the generator system suffer hazards due to that? Does it have any dedicated cooling system? What of other power cabling and power storage considerations?

Part 1: Virtual and Exotic Particle release? I remember it being pondered over, how true it is, I am unsure of.

Part 2: They'd likely be super condensed to induce energy release.

Part 3: Wes mentioned a ripple effect possibly. The 'air' would likely combust, or become very charged, and ionized.

Part 4: No scalar field to induce the effect, no aether. I was honestly giving this a great deal of thought. Exotic Particle release is very unusual, and likely extremely hard, to impossible to contain fully. My best guess would be to look at a torch. The flame is controlled by how much fuel is being put into it, but it always stays close to the source. Maybe the same for aether? Or a form of field?

Part 5: Now here is an interestingly fun part of your question. We know the Empire has Aether Bombs, Torpedoes, and Grenades. Overloading would more or less require it to go beyond the operational max. However, with the above listed, there are no failsafes I imagine to shut the reaction down, and critical mass is reached, the system destroys itself as the energy is released.

Part 5 B: If an aether generator works like an Anti-Matter Generator (This is purely for speculative purposes.) then if containment, or destabilization is in effect, the generator would likely have failsafe protocols in place to induce shutdown. If they fail, you go boom. -Kind of imagines every part of the aether generator is a critical component.-

Part 6: Process of overloading a generator? Going over the operational maximum of the class I imagine, or, maybe cutting power feed lines from it, and letting the charge build. The last however I imagine may not be doable.

Part 7: Since we know portions of it is crafted from Zesu, it makes it fairly heat resistant. However, other components I imagine would indeed corrode, and melt as a result of heat. I do however remember reading about some of the engineering compartments, and sections on YSE ships with things like pipes, lines and valves. So I'd imagine cooling systems would be inplace.

Part 8: Capacitors, Zesu lined cabling, or threaded cables. The only issue I've stumbled across is how to properly store aetheric energy. Wes stated on one prior occasion, it'd decay into exotic, or normal particles after a short time. So, I imagine conversion into electrical energy would be it.

3. What harvests the power Aether makes available? If the aether comes into being between the flower petal assemblies, how is it even harvested without physical contact? (it does disintegrate things on contact, right?) Does it directly feed a vessel's power cabling or is it used to generate power in a more mechanized, motorized fashion? Is the energy being feed into the ship so powerful it requires power converters to adapt it to everyday use?

Magnetic, Electromagnetic, Gravitic fields maybe? One way I imagined it was breaking it down into more elementary particles for conversion and reaction into electrical power fed directly into the ship

4. How does miniaturization apply to aether generators? They vary in size, from a towering structure in an engine room to a lunchbox-sized power supply with a power armor. Does miniaturization bring in select performance disadvantages and failsafes against failure that a larger shipboard generator would have? What advantages do bigger aether generators have aside from a bigger power feed next to their smaller counterparts?

Part 1:Likely less complicated, or built following the same design as a larger, just done smaller? I'm unsure.

Part 2:I'd imagine so. And would also like to know.

Part 3: More rugged, durable, and easy to repair. Likely less costly. Some miniaturized components can be fairly pricey I would wager.

~~~~

This is just me speculating here with what we know. :?

 

[Drakconus]

um... hi, I am new to Star Army (and RP for that matter) and I stumbled across this topic.

I have spent two nights looking through the wiki and what was posted here and using my love of fluff to write up a possible design for the Aether Generator, I'm also working on pictures.

Is anyone interested in seeing it?

 

[Aendri]

We're glad to see a new design, but understand it's recommended you wait about 3 months before submitting anything for the setting.

This is just so you have time to adjust to the setting, and learn what is acceptable, and what isn't.

 

[Zack]

I'll take a look at it, though you should hold off on putting in in the submission forum until you think you are done (or very near done) with it.

 

[Drakconus]

I'll take a look at it, though you should hold off on putting in in the submission forum until you think you are done (or very near done) with it.

Well I'm mostly done with the write up I just need some clarification on dates from some veteran players and I just need a few days (If that) to finish the drawings and get them scanned.

 

[Drakconus]

How do you want me to post it so you can look at it?

 

[Aendri]

Put it in here, or just go ahead and throw it up in this thread, since it's already being discussed.

 

[Zack]

( I responded to your PM, but I think we are more than a few hours apart time zone wise so I didn't exactly handle it immediately )

 

[Drakconus]

I tried to find solutions for the problems listed earlier in this topic in regards to what the aether generator is made of and how it works.

Aether Generator
The aether is a universe of limitless energy. In order to exploit the potential of the aether the Aether Generator was created.


I tried to come up with ways for power generation that were advanced enough and that everyone could understand (including me ) also I stuck to the original design and only added to it.

Process

The Aether Generator consists of the 16 paneled (8 on the top and 8 on the bottem) Aether Containment Core and two Gravtonic Turbine Assemblies (located above and below the Aether Containment Core) and Startup Storage Capacitors.

An array of 16 scalar field emitters located on the upper and lower panels of the Aether Containment Core are used to tap into the aether by means of tearing open a fissure in the quantum membrane separating the SARPiverse from the aether . This fissure is located in the heart of the Aether Containment Core.

After the fissure is torn, torrents of aether energy are released. In order to be of use these torrents of aether energy are captured and condensed into toroidal called the Aether Torrent by a gravimetric field array. This containment and condensing into a toroidal shape causes the confined aether energy to rotate at tremendous speeds in a counter clockwise motion.

To harness the power given off by the Aether Torrent two Gravtonic Turbine Assemblies project gravity fields thru the weaker (by design) center of the Aether Torrent harnessing the counter clockwise motion of the Aether Torrent transferring this motion to high-speed electrical generators to which they are attached.

A system of tubes and pipes funnel coolant in and around both the Aether Containment Core and the Gravity Turbine/ Startup Storage Capacitors assemblies. This coolant is then used to generate further power before being sent to external radiators and passed back into the Aether Generator .

In order to facilitate a “cold start” of the generator Startup Storage Capacitors are used to store a portion of the energy generated in the form of an electrical charge that will be used to power the system until it is running.


Construction
Newer Aether Generator use a combination of different metals and alloys in their construction. The two main used are Zesuaium and Yamataium. The main panels of the Aether Containment Core are made up of Zesuaium with radiation blocking materials layered on the outside of the panels. Internal parts, such as the scalar field emitters, that come in close contact or proximity with the aether are coated with or are made of Yamataium whose regenerative properties facilitate a longer lifespan for said parts.



Its History is where I had the most trouble because I was not able to find the information. First off it says on the aether generator page that
the aether was discovered in YE 20 but on the time line there is no such mention and there is no information when the first aether generator was developed so I looked for the ship that had aether weapons first and tied the aether weapon development in with it (this is due to most aether weapons needing a aether generator to provide enough power to power them). I also drew upon how some large RL government projects have been started and set up.

History
The aether was first discovered in YE 20 and after the coronation of Former Empress Ketsurui Yuumi in YE 21 she insisted that a way to tap into this power source be discovered. To facilitate this Project Fountain was launched, a cooperative effort between different Yamataian agencies and organizations spearheaded by the Ketsurui Fleet Yards. In early YE 22 the first test Aether Generator was developed in order to test the viability that a sustained aether reaction could be maintained and the energy harnessed, with the results being a overwhelming success. Later that year the first true Aether Generator was created in time for its use on the Yuumi Class Battleship (On a side note the first aether based weapon, The Projected Energy Beam, was developed in conjunction between Project Fountain and the Yuumi Battleship Program for use on the Yuumi Class Battleship ).


So thats what I have now, pictures are on their way.

 

[Zack]

* You should probably just call it the universe instead of the SARPiverse
* Gravity is a very weak force; you’d need a metric shit-ton to contain anything aether based. Remember that one earth’s worth of gravity can be overcome simply by jumping. Consider using electromagnetism at least and a solid chunk of Zesuium at best.
* Bonus points for including radiators. Most people forget that on everything.
* The high speed electrical generators are attached where? It would make sense that they are just built around the aether generator itself as the rotating motion of the ‘aether’ would be sufficient to generate an electrical current in copper(or whatever) wires around the thing itself.
* Also, your aether seems to just disappear after the generators get powered. I should probably also add aether is not a thing but a place so the ‘aether’ in this device will probably take the form of really hot matter. In that case, where does the aether go once it has been used? You would need some sort of exhaust port to get rid of the unwanted material and you can’t just send it back to the aether because that would cost the same amount of power as it took to bring stuff out of the aether. Alternatively if the ‘aether’ is just photons and the like then you’ll have to change the mechanism away from the spiny bits or spin the aether rift itself so you can use its rotating magnetic field to generate a current.

* Keep in mind that Scalar fiends can also generate electrical current in other devices. You’ll need to shield your generator to prevent the scalar fields from getting out and damaging other things.

 

[Fred]

Mmm. I dunno.

There seem to be two points of view to the issue so far: one suggests that a system is in place in the generator that directly taps electricity out of the 'event', the other seems to indicate that aether is used as a thermal energy source to have electricity be produced via a method not too dissimilar to a pressurized water reactor.

Drakconus, you seem to be headed for the latter. This might not be inaccurate in itself, seeing how the 'Turbo Aether Plasma Drives' Wes uses on Star Army vessels appears to function on a similar concept (using heat to turn matter to plasma and then shunt it out for spatial impulse).

I'd note that I don't think you really need to go much further than a durandium composition to be able to build a unit that would be sufficiently heat resistant. You can't use a material that's as good as zesuaium to perform that since zesuaium is kinda iffy as far as heat conduction goes - and you seem to need that for the concept you suggest.

Also, if you want to hold in scalar ray radiation, you definitely would need to add in xiulurium - according to Wes, it stops scalar emissions/radiation.

I find your method of harnessing the aether's power over-elaborated. Going the way you are, there's no need to go much further than a reactor coolant system to harness the aether event's thermal energy without needing to rely on 'gravtonic turbines' and this 'aether torrent'.

Effectively, this turns it into a glorified fusion reactor. That's not such a bad thing, though - an anti-matter reactor is essentially the same thing (a glorified fusion reactor) with a different method of generating thermal energy. The ability to harness thermal energy into kinetic energy which is then turned into electricity is a concept that exists today for hydroelectrical dams and nuclear reactors and that might not seem 'advanced', but sometimes the simplest solutions are the best.

Of course, using such a medium to collect electrical energy offers hurdles. First of all, seeing there's only so much space you can devote to having water pressure generators surrounding your aether font, you don't end up with an energy source that would be significantly better than Matter/Anti-Matter.

Then again, that might be okay - aether power supplies are supposed to hold for their main advantage to provide energy indefinitely without much concern for fuel (Turbo Aether Plasma Drives do require propellant, but then again that's why KFY ships have matter collection systems), rather than provide boundless amounts of energy.

A fuel source for your main power supply is not needed, but you need a power source to get it started and to maintain containment. Coolant reserves would be important, but again the matter collection system helps some with that.

One flaw of that approach is that having the whole reactor coolant system integrated in a power armor's lunchbox-sized power supply seems extremely unfeasible. While I'm perfectly content having my man-sized mecha run on high endurance batteries, I don't think that's something Wes himself really wants.

 

[Zack]

Effectively, this turns it into a glorified fusion reactor. That's not such a bad thing, though - an anti-matter reactor is essentially the same thing (a glorified fusion reactor) with a different method of generating thermal energy.

Wait, what?

Fusion generators are spherical, anti-matter/matter generators are long tubes. The first one actually does generate heat while the second can generate all sorts of fun radiation to harness and in a lot of situations (such as a starter motor for a fusion generator) isn’t used to generate thermal energy at all. Both also have very different methods of converting energy into useable forms of electricity. If you want to follow the ‘they just turn heat into power’ analogy then a fusion generator is really just a glorified hand crank.

And of course the ‘turbine’ method of power generation, which is used in every power generator today, is going to be far better than an anti-matter/matter reaction which at best can only achieve 60% efficiency due to massive energy loss in creation of anti-matter, storage, and further loss from the reaction blowing itself out. In a generator intended for use in powering something efficiency is going to plummet down to around 30% at best.

The assessment that only a limited area is available for energy collection is also not accurate. As long as all of the ‘aether’ (whatever it happens to be) is passing through the turbine then 100% of the aether is getting used. As long as the aether is moving in one direction, additional turbine mechanisms can be stacked along its path to extract power meaning there is no limit on how many turbines you can have in terms of surface area. Again this is unlike an anti-matter reaction where you’ll never get 100% of the anti-matter being used unless you are using a very slow acting reactor with extremely low output.

I am also under the impression that this is going to be one type of aether generator. After all there are plenty of types of generators for every power method (rotary vs wankel for example) so the small aether generators could be using some other method and probably should go undefined because you don’t want to screw them up and have to redo the power armors because power armors can’t run on batteries (no battery could ever have the power density required to run power armors with FTL drives, shields, and teleporters in this setting. )


(I also thought he already mentioned a starter capacitor device in this)

 

[Fred]

I meqant they made heat, and that got turned into mechanical energy that in turn got turned into electricity. I see whatyou mean, though.

From observation in this setting, an aether event (like what the Mindy saber-rifle does) can pretty much be equated to the creation of a light source, that creates an awful lot of heat, and that releases the energy potential of everything that touches it (destroying it - bad).

For simplicity's sake, I'm going to compare it to a small sun.

If my font is located at a particular point, then yeah I might be able to generate heat, but there's still a limited amount of generators you can stack around the thing. I mean, your scalar field assembly to create the event is set in one specific point, so, there is only so much gear you can bunch around it, right? That gear takes space, and space on starships is limited. That's what I meant.

So, if you only have the room for four water pressure generators (for example), then you'll only need an aether font assembly large enough to provide enough heat to saturate a reactor coolant system to make those four work. A larger font could perhaps accommodate the needs of 8 turbines... but then even if the font is larger the said turbines and waterworks really would be what takes the most space.

Anyhow, that doesn't help power armors, I know... but a thought struck me earlier.

My calculator uses electricity, but sure doesn't need a water pressure reactor to make it work - it just uses a couple of solar panels. Photovoltaic cells collect light (photons, right?) and turn them into electricity through a process I'm not sure I entirely understand, but it's an everyday example that's easy to cope with.

So, if my calculator's solar cell can catch light and turn it into electricity, might something similar exist in SARP's aether generators to get energy from the heat and light emitted by an aether font? If you surround the aether font with somesort of high tech sci-fi energy collector cells derivated from the solar cell power concept, wouldn't this incidentally work better on a smaller scale such as power armor?

You could get an aether font as large as a spark in that lunchbox-sized thing, surround it with collectors and have the armor run on that - even if it's small, that spark can still be enormously bright and hot.

On a ship, the insides of the aether event chamber could be lined with those collectors - the event itself could afford being larger (fist-sized?). Those collectors in turn would have their heat level regulated by a cooling system that could get additional energy out via the water pressure turbines too if the vessel has the space for it.

 

[Zack]

There are a few problems with this assessment as well:

• This device is a cylinder, not a sphere.
• There is no limit to how much stuff you can cram around the device
• Space is not a limiting factor for starships (see: Mass, there is plenty of space in space, no need to conserve it)
• The turbines basically use an axel made of gravity, which won’t work because of the gravity portion, but there is no limit on how many power generating devices can be attached to this axel, the axel merely has to be made longer to accommodate them.
• Even if you made the device spherical, this is not a water powered system. Any number of power generating devices can be stacked around and ontop of each other. The result is that they gain power from radiation passing out of the device that penetrates through the first layer of generators.
• The equivalent in SARP for solar cells is going to be solar cells which aren’t very efficient at collecting energy anyways. Devices for collecting radiation have to be very, very big and bulky because you are trying to collect radiation which is a very penetrating. The modern day equivalent is giant pools filled with water (nuclear reactors)
• The problem with the ‘bunch of collectors around an aether sun’ device is that the radiation will certainly kill anyone trying to use it especially if it is fist sized.