[Yamatai] Star Army Reconnaissance

[Ethereal]

Hiya guys

I'm making this thread to discuss another of my setting elements that I've had in cryostasis for ages. The idea of this one brought a few people who've now left to pitch in ideas and paragraphs.

The proposal is a new occupation called Reconnaissance, which is mainly a planetary occupation. Essentially, in war there are times when rather than using a camera to observe a position it becomes necessary to have personnel watching themselves, so that tailored and creative responses can be decided on the fly and communicated.

As far as I know, this sort of post currently would either need to be filled by a straight Infantry soldier or a highly trained SAINT operative.

Neither of these fit well in my opinion, as a generic Infantry soldier is likely to have minimal experience of being cut off from the main force or stealth and the SAINT operative has better things to do than potentially sit for days in one place watching a position which may or may not change, cut off from the main force.

Thus, Star Army Recon provides training in self-reliance, systematic observation and basic stealth operations. This training is nowhere near the level of SAINT, however this means that larger detachments of Recon can be tasked to lesser tasks than a detachment of SAINT as SAINT are more sparse and important.

A defining feature is that they bring and use little supplies to reduce chance of detection and increase speed, given enemy troops may move quickly as they observe. This can even go up to not using power armor and opting for obsolete kit.

They may engage in harassment or routing operations with enemies they are forwards observing to increase the effectiveness of the main force, a little like a commando unit but they aren't based on this idea.

The occupation is also promoted as a collateral occupation as well as a primary, as the four months additional training can be undertaken by almost any other occupation such as engineers. This can allow building of bridges or fortifications ahead of a force to continue timely advance without delay, etc.

Recon also work as a forewarning system to surprise attacks or unexpected troop movement and are expected to fight overwhelming enemy forces and likely die to buy the main force time to prepare.

They may assist laymen soldiers to understand SAINT intel, leaving the SAINT free to get on with more important matters. They can even work directly under a SAINT commander. Of course, when not undertaking a recon operation they meld with Infantry.

Some of the wording in this article needs changing, as the old co-authors who have since long left the site don't write articles as I do. This is a discussion thread for ideas surrounding Reconnaissance. I'd like to see this implemented in some way but if there's no merit that's fine. This could even be a subdivision of SAINT if @raz felt it should swing that way.

Thanks

 

[SirSkully]

If you need gear for them, hit me up lol

 

[raz]

The Star Army of Yamatai began training specialized reconnaissance operatives in YE 40. Before that, reconnaissance duties were handled spontaneously or by Star Army Intelligence. The emergence of the Kuvexian threat in YE 37 highlighted the need for a specialized forward reconnaissance division

SAINT already trains "specialized reconnaissance operatives." And nothing is really handled "spontaneously." Operatives get assigned to Legions all the time, there just aren't any Legion plots with SAINT operatives doing recon things. To quote the approved SAINT article, there are "fleet based reconnaissance squadrons and soldiers" as well as "Operatives assigned to the Legions [who] usually undertake long range reconnaissance and surveillance missions that do not warrant a full team's deployment." Then there's the whole Strategic Initiatives Network — which is filled with nothing but people who do clandestine recon work all day — and includes SAINT SOFT teams, which can also be assigned to Legions rather than ships.

Further, the Star Army itself has its own SOFT teams which — when working with the Rikugun rather than the Uchuugun — likely perform all of the duties you want "Star Army Recon" to do. We've also got the Star Army School of Advanced Infantry Combat, which basically makes Neko into SARP Army Rangers.

The article starts off with:

Taking a distinctive role within SAoY military operations

But I don't see anything particularly new or unique that the Star Army doesn't already have handled in some way. Moreover, it seems to attempt to redefine what SAINT already does by casting doubt the fact that SAINT already does it.

For example:

They also act as a bridge between SAINT Operatives and boots on the ground

SAINT Operatives are boots on the ground. Intelligence Officers and Information Warfare Specialists are the cubicle-dwellers.

So I generally feel like you should take all mention of SAINT out. Much like the last time you mentioned SAINT in an organizational submission, the only purpose the SAINT mentions serve is to attempt to take duties and responsibilities away from an existing, effective command. I think if you didn't mention SAINT at all, this submission would make a lot more sense on the surface.

You could already run a plot about special operations SOFT dudes in the Rikugun, who do everything these new Recon dudes would do, by utilizing existing and approved elements of the Star Army.

That said, there's no reason why this shouldn't exist unless Wes doesn't want it at all. But it certainly does not need to suggest that "SAINT and the Star Army isn't doing reconnaissance effectively enough so these purple shirts sprung up!" to be a cool thing. (And speaking of the purple shirts, it's un-thematic. Rikugun and Uchuugun soldiers wear cornflower blue because they're grunts and that unites them. Even SOFTs wear cornflower blue. Putting a newly-formed Rikugun-focused recon command on a pedestal wouldn't be good for morale and cohesion).

And that's what I think because you tagged me.

 

[Wes]

I know this is a minor thing, but I'd like to use a color besides purple. I was actually eyeing purple for musicians, etc. I feel like they could use standard ground forces coloring.

 

[Rizzo]

This sounds unnecessary. Really, I cannot think of any situation where a proper SAINT operative would see a threat and contact a rikugun team. Seriously, if these guys are so good that they do some of the exact same jobs SAINT operatives do they would be invited to a SOFT.

 

[Ethereal]

Off the bat, the change of colour was not my idea. They can have cornflower blue, maybe just with some sort of identifying feature.

I disagree Rizzo and I see what you're saying Raz. All the bodies and groups you detailed there are very highly specialised and if you'd read the first few paragraphs of the thread again the point of this occupation is exactly to counter wasting resources. SAINT and SOFT are both very much close analogues to special forces when it comes to field operatives.

A SOFT team does not need to sit on a muddy hill for a week watching another hill, that'd be much like having SEALS do the same thing. At least, unless you want to train for years and end up sat in dirt doing your business in an empty tin can.

This type of work is not long range as you detailed, as I stated these operatives are expected to get in the face of the enemy whenever they need to. Their position may be discovered if they don't remember their training.

Indeed SAINT are boots on the ground, however they are vastly outnumber by the general Infantry given their extra training and prestige. Hence, they aren't to be wasted, much like the SOFT team, on watching positions. Securing intel in a hotzone with their training specifically for that comes above lying on a knoll.

SAINT and SOFT are more likely to be sneaking around breaking into places and being badasses. These guys are made to be disposable, if they die then they're out of action and no biggie until they redeploy. If the same happened to SOFT or SAINT, they'd have to relocate from their ST, likely have forgotten key intel and that resource would have been wasted.

Things can be shifted and changed, this is just my initial response. Nothing is being taken away from anyone, I just see a notable inefficiency or gap in documentation that can be filled with something tangible. SAINT mentions can be removed and much of those quotes are likely from my gone co-authors.

 

[Ametheliana]

I wanted to know how @raz and @Rizzo feel about this occupation after Eth's above explanation.

 

[Rizzo]

Here's the thing, it usually only takes one SAINT two form a SOFT and if the operative needs to bail there's a teleporter on every M2-4. The recon group could just sit and watch a hill but so could a drone. Are we to believe that the majority of the Rikugun are incapable of forming strike teams and running their own recon? They apparently get Intel from SAINT, but the Rikugun commander gets the same Intel too. Why do the Rikugun need help understanding Intel from SAINT?

There's just too may things that I'm not getting a good feel for in this current state, but if it helps I can look through the Wiki page in more detail later and see if I can come up with any suggestions or even see if my mind changes.

 

[Ethereal]

In my mind it's still the same problem, even if only one SAINT is used along with a whole bunch of Infantry you have problems. The SAINT might again be sitting there for however long wasting their abilities that could be in more productive places than watching a hill or road, such as direct infiltration or strategy divising. The people they bring won't have nondetection training and will get the SAINT discovered, as that isn't a skill your average Joe has ever used yet alone honed or trained.

As I mentioned in my original post, it's the same reason we don't use drones exclusively IRL. Some things require immediate response or deterrent. You can't buy time for your main force with just a drone in the same way you could with a squad, react instinctively or exploit situations to the same extent as you could with a squad.

To address your other issue, Rikugun can form their own strike teams but as I've said this isn't a smash and grab situation. It's likely extended time behind enemy lines or, rather, nearby them. Of course, they can run their own recon but they'll be detected and driven back quickly, sort of mitigating the whole sit back and watch idea of non direct-engagement recon.

The 'help' thing is a side note which I'll remove, if you come up with any suggestions they'll be very welcome. Very good questions.

 

[Soban]

I would note that the US Millitary has dedicated reconnaissance units that are not a part of military intelligence or special forces.

 

[raz]

I wanted to know how @raz and @Rizzo feel about this occupation after Eth's above explanation.

All I think is that all SAINT references should be removed, and that when I asked Wes about making forward observers, he said they're basically unneeded because every Neko is inherently a forward observer.

So basically this:

That said, there's no reason why this shouldn't exist unless Wes doesn't want it at all.

Seems like Wes is cool with them, so yeah. They'd be better if they stood alone and didn't try to compare themselves with SAINT. But this isn't a submission yet, as you pointed out to me the other day. Thanks for the opportunity to make +1 post

 

[Rizzo]

I am liking these new changes, there is no blurring between Naval intelligence and army reconnaissance in its current state. This will work nicely.