• If you were supposed to get an email from the forum but didn't (e.g. to verify your account for registration), email Wes at [email protected] or talk to me on Discord for help. Sometimes the server hits our limit of emails we can send per hour.
  • Get in our Discord chat! Discord.gg/stararmy
  • 📅 July 2024 is YE 46.5 in the RP.

Approved Submission [Nepleslia] M11 Devastator

Sigma

Inactive Member
Submission Type: Power Armor
Submission URL:https://wiki.stararmy.com/doku.php?id=nepleslia:devastator

Faction: Nepleslia
FM Approved Yet? Yes
Faction requires art? Yes

For Reviewers:
Contains Unapproved Sub-Articles? Yes
https://wiki.stararmy.com/doku.php?id=nepleslia:doorbreaker
https://wiki.stararmy.com/doku.php?id=nepleslia:devastator_modules
https://wiki.stararmy.com/doku.php?id=nepleslia:tower_shield
https://wiki.stararmy.com/doku.php?id=nepleslia:chatterbox

Contains New art? Yes, another is one the way to make it more Neppy
Previously Submitted? Nein

Notes: I'd like to see the full checklist
 
This suggestion has been implemented. Votes are no longer accepted.
Hmmm, can you please add a description under the system header? And also fix the headers themselves for each of the systems. Your using a == so that is partly screwing up the look, try and use a ===== which will make it look better :)
 
Well. Doing this isn't something I'm going to like, but considering I kept my mouth shut the last few times and it turned out very poorly, I'm going to raise some criticisms. Whether they'll be constructive or not, remains to be seen.

First and foremost, the stats on this power armor are excessive. To say that I greatly dislike the current Damage Rating system is a huge understatement, but for the time being, it's all we have, and we should at least try and respect it. The shields and armor of this particular suit are far more than those of all pre-existing designs, the Aggressor included. This suit is at least 8 feet tall, depending on the pilot, but it has shields and armor rated at 20? The Aggressor has 18 shields and 18 hull, and that one is 13 feet tall. THIRTEEN. That's a five foot difference between the two. Then, there's the weapons that it's mounted with. Both its over-the-shoulder cannons are ADR 5 individually, adding to a handheld weapon that's also ADR 5. To put that into perspective, it's typically very rare to have ADR 5 weapons on a PA. In the cases that PA do have them, it's either an Aether Beam-Saber Rifle, or something hazardous like Antimatter Shells - just like the ones the Aggressor uses. Most of the time, it's tanks, fighters and frames that mount ADR 5 weapons so easily, and in any number beyond just one.

Second, why wasn't the Aggressor modified instead? Or if the Hostile got an upgunned variant to it? Both of those options seem to make far more sense than this does, since it not only uses pre-existing resources, but simplifies supply line issues. Not only that, but those two articles could use a bit of love too - the time that was spent on this could have been spent on updating those two. They've formed the backbone of Nepleslia's military for quite some time, and it doesn't make sense for something entirely new to be developed when a preexisting platform can easily be made to do the same job.

Third, is quite frankly my own subjective opinion. I really wish I could have said something far sooner, before the artwork was complete, but after what happened before, it's better I say something now than say something about it far later down the line. I honestly don't like the artwork. In comparison to what we've had before, designs that look rough and gritty, this looks like something out of Gundam. This one is bright and flashy, with glowing neon lights. To me, it doesn't seem to be consistent with the lore. Hell, it even looks like a Zaku that got upgraded with more weapons and an NT-D like the Unicorn series of Gundams.
 
Well. Doing this isn't something I'm going to like, but considering I kept my mouth shut the last few times and it turned out very poorly, I'm going to raise some criticisms. Whether they'll be constructive or not, remains to be seen.

First and foremost, the stats on this power armor are excessive. To say that I greatly dislike the current Damage Rating system is a huge understatement, but for the time being, it's all we have, and we should at least try and respect it. The shields and armor of this particular suit are far more than those of all pre-existing designs, the Aggressor included. This suit is at least 8 feet tall, depending on the pilot, but it has shields and armor rated at 20? The Aggressor has 18 shields and 18 hull, and that one is 13 feet tall. THIRTEEN. That's a five foot difference between the two. Then, there's the weapons that it's mounted with. Both its over-the-shoulder cannons are ADR 5 individually, adding to a handheld weapon that's also ADR 5. To put that into perspective, it's typically very rare to have ADR 5 weapons on a PA. In the cases that PA do have them, it's either an Aether Beam-Saber Rifle, or something hazardous like Antimatter Shells - just like the ones the Aggressor uses. Most of the time, it's tanks, fighters and frames that mount ADR 5 weapons so easily, and in any number beyond just one.

Second, why wasn't the Aggressor modified instead? Or if the Hostile got an upgunned variant to it? Both of those options seem to make far more sense than this does, since it not only uses pre-existing resources, but simplifies supply line issues. Not only that, but those two articles could use a bit of love too - the time that was spent on this could have been spent on updating those two. They've formed the backbone of Nepleslia's military for quite some time, and it doesn't make sense for something entirely new to be developed when a preexisting platform can easily be made to do the same job.

Third, is quite frankly my own subjective opinion. I really wish I could have said something far sooner, before the artwork was complete, but after what happened before, it's better I say something now than say something about it far later down the line. I honestly don't like the artwork. In comparison to what we've had before, designs that look rough and gritty, this looks like something out of Gundam. This one is bright and flashy, with glowing neon lights. To me, it doesn't seem to be consistent with the lore. Hell, it even looks like a Zaku that got upgraded with more weapons and an NT-D like the Unicorn series of Gundams.
Excellent. Something. At last.

I shall divide my responses into the appropriate categories of Armor, Weapons, Aggressor, and Artwork.

Armor
The Aggressor may be 13 feet tall but it's made of a Nerimium shell and Durandium skeleton. I have replaced the Durandium with Meridium, which realistically ought to increase durability. Next, I did conduct a completely unscientific poll in 2013 over the IRC and the majority of Nepleslian players wanted an increase in the SP of the Aggressor and Hostile. After going over it with several others, we agreed that 20 was a good point since it's a marginal increase from the Aggressor, upon which the Devastator is based upon. In addition, the Devastator was specifically designed to be an assault armor, hence increased armor and shields. One doesn't send a cardboard equipped unit as the leading assault force unless one is an Imperial Guard Commissar.

Aggressor
The RP from the Rok'Veru Offensive proved this point, that the Aggressors were not suited to direct assault. Frown-chan, while she was active, wanted an assault PA that could engage in CQB (another thing the Aggressor does not do well). The Aggressor has many AoE weaponry as well as a lot of high volume weaponry. That doesn't make it a true assault unit. Having used it with NPCs in that assault role, I can say that it's not perfect. None of its main guns are suited for the task of leading an assault.

It is a direct response to 3rd Marines' assault on SC-4, against fortified NMX positions and bunkers. Like the Raider, this is meant to fill a small hole. For a dedicated assault armor, not a re-purposed one.

" it doesn't make sense for something entirely new to be developed when a preexisting platform can easily be made to do the same job."
You saw how much grief I got for making a minor edit to the DR of the LSP from one player. Imagine that multiplied for the Aggressor if I modified it. So much easier to just start from the ground up and avoid that particular pitfall, preserving the Aggie we all know and love. And I'm absolutely serious on this point. So, new machine, new memories, no baggage.

Weapons
The Doorbreaker's Blast mode consists of firing three (3) ADR 3 plasma lances simultaneously. If you prefer ADR 9 to ADR 5, that can be arranged.

Similarly, the plasma lance cannons are essentially miniaturized versions of the starship weapons. These are bunker-buster weapons. You will notice, there's more than just the option for the lance cannons.

" it's either an Aether Beam-Saber Rifle" - Does this mean I need to employ handwavium aether to justify ADR 5 when both weapons are already grounded in existing PA weaponry capable of ADR5 damage output if done properly? Or is that supposed to mean that only Yamatai can have "safe" ADR5 PA weaponry? Your point requires clarification because it currently seems to lack direction. You write as if there is an implication I should see. Please do not imply. State it. The only interpretation rendered to me is that you consider the weaponry to be Overpowered. Is this so or is there some other meaning we have not drawn?

As you can see, everything is direct fire. Everything is meant to fire straight at an enemy. The Aggressor is, as one senior Nep put it, a missile boat intended to stand back and unload everything it had. And it does that function EXTREMELY well. I cannot fault the creators of the Aggressor for longevity. But re-purposing it into something that it wasn't intended to do would take away from the platform.

Artwork
It was the best I could get for $15 at the time. I well remember EXACTLY how much grief I had from ... certain .... parties about the lack of artwork on the Raider and those parties'.... refusal to allow the approval of the Raider until it had artwork. So yeah, not the best but it's a starting point. And as I said way up in my original post: NEW ARTWORK IS ALREADY BEING MADE so forgive me if I consider this point to be rather minor and ultimately moot. The problems arising from the Raider's lack of initial artwork are the primary reasons why I would rather have shitty art than no art. You know how ... certain parties feel about submissions without artwork.
 
Last edited:
Excellent. Something. At last.

I shall divide my responses into the appropriate categories of Armor, Weapons, Aggressor, and Artwork.

Armor
The Aggressor may be 13 feet tall but it's made of a Nerimium shell and Durandium skeleton. I have replaced the Durandium with Meridium, which realistically ought to increase durability. Next, I did conduct a completely unscientific poll in 2013 over the IRC and the majority of Nepleslian players wanted an increase in the SP of the Aggressor and Hostile. After going over it with several others, we agreed that 20 was a good point since it's a marginal increase from the Aggressor, upon which the Devastator is based upon. In addition, the Devastator was specifically designed to be an assault armor, hence increased armor and shields. One doesn't send a cardboard equipped unit as the leading assault force unless one is an Imperial Guard Commissar.

Aggressor
The RP from the Rok'Veru Offensive proved this point, that the Aggressors were not suited to direct assault. Frown-chan, while she was active, wanted an assault PA that could engage in CQB (another thing the Aggressor does not do well). The Aggressor has many AoE weaponry as well as a lot of high volume weaponry. That doesn't make it a true assault unit. Having used it with NPCs in that assault role, I can say that it's not perfect. None of its main guns are suited for the task of leading an assault.

It is a direct response to 3rd Marines' assault on SC-4, against fortified NMX positions and bunkers. Like the Raider, this is meant to fill a small hole. For a dedicated assault armor, not a re-purposed one.

" it doesn't make sense for something entirely new to be developed when a preexisting platform can easily be made to do the same job."
You saw how much grief I got for making a minor edit to the DR of the LSP from one player. Imagine that multiplied for the Aggressor if I modified it. So much easier to just start from the ground up and avoid that particular pitfall, preserving the Aggie we all know and love. And I'm absolutely serious on this point. So, new machine, new memories, no baggage.

Weapons
The Doorbreaker's Blast mode consists of firing three (3) ADR 3 plasma lances simultaneously. If you prefer ADR 9 to ADR 5, that can be arranged.

Similarly, the plasma lance cannons are essentially miniaturized versions of the starship weapons. These are bunker-buster weapons. You will notice, there's more than just the option for the lance cannons.

" it's either an Aether Beam-Saber Rifle" - Does this mean I need to employ handwavium aether to justify ADR 5 when both weapons are already grounded in existing PA weaponry capable of ADR5 damage output if done properly? Or is that supposed to mean that only Yamatai can have "safe" ADR5 PA weaponry? Your point requires clarification because it currently seems to lack direction. You write as if there is an implication I should see. Please do not imply. State it. The only interpretation rendered to me is that you consider the weaponry to be Overpowered. Is this so or is there some other meaning we have not drawn?

As you can see, everything is direct fire. Everything is meant to fire straight at an enemy. The Aggressor is, as one senior Nep put it, a missile boat intended to stand back and unload everything it had. And it does that function EXTREMELY well. I cannot fault the creators of the Aggressor for longevity. But re-purposing it into something that it wasn't intended to do would take away from the platform.

Artwork
It was the best I could get for $15 at the time. I well remember EXACTLY how much grief I had from ... certain .... parties about the lack of artwork on the Raider and those parties'.... refusal to allow the approval of the Raider until it had artwork. So yeah, not the best but it's a starting point. And as I said way up in my original post: NEW ARTWORK IS ALREADY BEING MADE so forgive me if I consider this point to be rather minor and ultimately moot. The problems arising from the Raider's lack of initial artwork are the primary reasons why I would rather have shitty art than no art. You know how ... certain parties feel about submissions without artwork.

Not going to priase the Neon God. Sorry.

Armour:
"In addition, the Devastator was specifically designed to be an assault armor, hence increased armor and shields."
I read that as "It was designed to be better in every possible way, even though it is smaller and made from less material."

Aggressor
I am just going to say. You say "Agressors did not proove to be good assault armours." But it was you who made them such way, cause you GMed all those RPs and you just derped all those players.

Aggy bad at CQB? Well it has just a tiny knife. Just give it a bloody hammer that Earth used, there done, problem solved. Weapon that are area attack or high rate of fire weapons? Make a new gun for it, problems solved. I wanted once to mount VOID mortars ICily on Aggy but you and Kokuten said no. Okay.

Weapons
I think the point is that while Aether S-R does adr 5 it only does it in a one beam every fifteen seconds. THat is 4 beams a minutes, while you have TWO cannons and they fire TEN times a minutes. I do not think this is a very good comparison.......
 
As someone who has seen the DR system used in a reasonable way, I have to say that the present Devestator armor outperforms the Mindy.

By 14 ADR.

Throw in the tower shield and it gets worse; that's a massive difference. The shielding threshold is lower, but does that really matter with such a monsterous advantage?

Using the Mindy as the industry standard, it seems to me that this power armor is unnecessarily powerful with few discernable drawbacks. In addition it gets a massive tower shield, and access to most of the present NAM arsenal, and it becomes a juggernaut with few drawbacks that I can readily find in the article. I'd love to use this armor. For NPCs. I'd hate to see it mass-produced to the point where it dwarfs the current tech standard, and I thought I'd raise the concern.

No doubt there are others more enlightened than I on what the 'tech standard' represents, but I thought pointing it out might be good.
 
First and foremost, I had multiple finals and one more to fight against this Friday - the timing on my side was never meant to be malicious. Moving on however.

*****

I will try to sum up the most important reasons why the Devastator should not be passed in its current state as simply as possible, then go explain each point in more detail:
  1. Everyone will want it, and become bored when they get it.
  2. Anyone who doesn't have it, will feel excluded and want it.
  3. All other models of PA are rendered obsolete.
  4. The Devastator will mark a new standard: 3a) starting an arms race and 3b) The Bitter Ripple Effects Will Last for Years.
Too summarize, it is Over Powered, and Gamebreaking. I'm not looking at it from just the perspective of "I'm a Nepleslian General" - I also look at this from the perspective of, "I'm a Game Developer for SARP" and naturally, I want a well balanced game.

With the first problem, the unit, as Gallant pointed out, is far superior to everything on the site. From the perspective of the players, it's the Infinity Sword +1. They'll all want it. The problem with that however, is that once they have it, everything will become trivial and combat will no longer be appealing. For a short amount of time, killing everything that previously posed a challenge to them will be fun, but there's a reason why videogames, tabletop games, and so forth limit this to only the endgame. With it, the game is not fun anymore. None of the mooks will matter. They're uninteresting and die in a click. So what if this unit is expensive? That's not something that concerns the player.

Which ties into our second problem. All players that don't have it will feel left out, like they're missing the fun. However, once they get it, it'll be fun for a short duration of time and then lose its appeal - this directly feeds into the first problem, not only potentially making players feel like they're not getting the entirety of the roleplay's contents, but possibly spark even more bitter feelings. Those without could feel those with are being favored by the GM. "After all, why does this guy have it, and I don't?" one will think to him or herself.

The third problem itself is also a very simple one, and is an IC problem. If this suit is so powerful, why use anything else? All our other great PA designs would be marginalized as demand for this one goes up, further feeding into the first and second problems. Though this is the easiest to remedy out of all the problems by making it more exclusive, it still feeds into problem 2 regardless.

Fourth, everyone will measure their own designs against this new one from hereon out if it is approved. This is what all others, problems 1-3 add up into and is the horrible climax of it all. The Arms Race is one of the nastiest, darkest moments in SARP's history. It was when different groups of players were trying to (IC) outdo one another technologically, effectively one-up each other, non stop, again and again and again. If approved in its current state, this is what will effectively happen. This arms race will repeat itself, with all sides attempting to crap on the other side with bigger and more powerful tech. "After all, if this passes, why can't so-and-so pass in the NTSE?" would be the reasoning behind it all. We lost a ton of good players to this, possibly climaxing and slowly, slowly winding down at the Genocide. They didn't have gear that was good enough, and so were free game.

Worst of all, if we somehow miraculously step back from this, we'll all remember it for years to come. It'll be a second black mark on SARP - and we haven't even recovered from the last one for crying out loud.

So please, nerf this hard and balance it with weaknesses equal to its strengths at least. Otherwise, we'll end up with a broken game nobody wants to play.
 
The devious side of me doesn't want me to let this out but I wasn't done making changes. I only didn't add them because I was under a self-imposed exile from SARP, both to cool down and focus on my classes.

I have made a few more changes. I have added the OPTION of various other tools such as the CFC and Viralyte's new engineering tools to allow the Devastator to be used by a Marine engineer. These tend to replace the assault or offensive oriented features. I also changed the 30mm SMG to the LSP so that the DR would balance out more evenly. Last was just a bit more text. Oh and new art. If you want to re-examine it go ahead. This is, IMO, a better submission than the original.

@Kyle
 
@Koenig808 , @Sigma , @Kyle

With Kyle's express permission, I am posting here to discuss the Devastator's shortcomings and suggested improvements or changes after initial protests against approval were ignored. Currently, as a GM of Nepleslia, I have players asking to use it, and at the same time, have found it unsuitable for in-character use. This has put me in a very difficult position. After brainstorming with several other members, a Titanpad was set up to organize issues with the article and suggested improvements which could be made with the help of a few of them.

I have made it available here, for consideration.
 
I want to know two things:

1) Where was the article's author in this discussion about revamping his work?

2) Why was this not brought to my attention before you acted on it in here?
 
Last edited:
1) It looks to me like the discussion's purpose was to consolidate the feedback in a constructive argument to be presented to the author at a later time, as now unveiled above.

2) Aren't you being made aware of it right now? This isn't any more evil than thinking carefully before you say something.

3) You say that as if it was wrong. A GM takes of his time to entertain others. Akin to artists, we may want to provide a particular experience to those whom live through the body of our work. If I feel the color red does not belong in the painting I want to show to others, then it doesn't belong there. It's my prerogative. It's Cadetnewb's too.
 
Last edited:
Pejorative - adj. "having a disparaging, derogatory, or belittling effect or force"; n. a pejorative form or word. (Dictionary.com)

Do you, perhaps, mean prerogative?
 
RPG-D RPGfix
Back
Top