NTSE Issues

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Fred

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We. Don't. Have. The. Tools.
I just want to confirm, from my last time being Staffer, that this is true. You're put in as a referee, but you have no claws. As NTSE mod, you have your words, your tag and the Staffers that are backing you (whom only had more power by virtue of their tag and being able to see reports). All the moves, all the locks, that was recently on the admins only.

So far as I know, I'm the only staffer with the level of power I have... and that's because I'm highly active and volunteered to help Wes more.

That said, I'm not really in approval of the post-by-post moderation thing. I've seen how it works for news post, and it's actually something very labor-intensive that's likely to fall only on Wes and me. And part of my goal of being in this position is giving Wes less work.

There was a point in SARP where people were able to better behave themselves. Where this wasn't necessary. I still believe in people; why have you stopped? Just move forward and try to be better.
 
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raz

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The only problem I foresee occuring is that, well, not all of the moderators on Star Army have the same definition of "helpful" - and in my opinion a few of them believe that some help is "more equal" then others. In the event someone's post is rejected, @Wes, would it be possible for that person to see who rejected their post?
I think your concern might be unfounded. All NTSE mods would be able to approve a post, but it's not like anything would be "rejected." The "rejected" posts just sit there behind a mod wall being unapproved.
 

FrostJaeger

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I think your concern might be unfounded. All NTSE mods would be able to approve a post, but it's not like anything would be "rejected." The "rejected" posts just sit there behind a mod wall being unapproved.
Given that it wouldn't be publicly visible, wouldn't that effectively be the same as rejecting it? Worse, what if someone notices something wrong with a submission, submits a post, then - while the post is still in "limbo" - watches as the submission is approved?
 

CadetNewb

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I just want to confirm, from my last time being Staffer, that this is true. You're put in as a referee, but you have no claws. As NTSE mod, you have your words, your tag and the Staffers that are backing you (whom only had more power by virtue of their stag and being able to see reports). All the moves, all the locks, that was recently on the admins only.

So far as I know, I'm the only staffer with the level of power I have... and that's because I'm highly active and volunteered to help Wes more.

That said, I'm not really in approval of the post-by-post moderation thing. I've seen how it works for news post, and it's actually something very labor-intensive that's likely to fall only on Wes and me. And part of my goal of being in this position is giving Wes less work.

There was a point in SARP where people were able to better behave themselves. Where this wasn't necessary. I still believe in people; why have you stopped? Just move forward and try to be better.
The problem I see is that the last year has made it abundantly clear that the system - once put under strain - does not work, so we need to try something else. I like the idea of post by post approval like in the news area, however, you are also correct that this may produce unnecessary strain on you and Wes. That's why I believe that responsibility should be delegated to those who are reviewing the articles in the first place. That way, you guys aren't being called for every single day and run ragged.
 
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raz

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Given that it wouldn't be publicly visible, wouldn't that effectively be the same as rejecting it? Worse, what if someone notices something wrong with a submission, submits a post, then - while the post is still in "limbo" - watches as the submission is approved?
That's definitely a concern, good point. But will it be an issue? I can't imagine any of the initial points I've ever brought up not being approved by one mod or another, nor yours, and the new system basically makes it so anything that gets through carries the weight of a reviewer's own concern. And if there are good points that the mods believe are said poorly, the mods can see those good points and re-state them themselves.

Trying to look on the bright side, here.
 

Fred

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I'm under the impression that what some of you are looking for is the lesser evil, and that perception is skewed by the grass looking greener on the neighbor's lawn.
 
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Legix

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That would be a flaw of that system that the person submitting to the topic would indeed face, yes.
I think this is primarily why Syaoran opposed it as well. It's only one apparent flaw with likely more beneath the surface. There's also more of the supposed fear of bias and potential drama if people know they could have been ignored. Or it'll force NTSE to look at every submission more... which I find a bit anti-productive in the long run, as it means people will need to be checking and it could even lead to conflict between NTSE mebmers.

I'll again point to the ORIGINAL ideas proposed by Syaoran rather than the compromise. I'm a firm believer that people could easily shape up versus handle a system swap that leads to potentially far less input going into the process.
 
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CadetNewb

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Though the posts that are unapproved would sit behind a mod wall, the person moderating the thread and conducting the review would still see them, assuming the NTSE mod who's reviewing is the one allowed to moderate their own thread. This means that the reviewer can take the feedback in the posts, approved or not, and relay them to the submitter. Working with this system, I'm actually thinking of doing just that, and approving all posts following approval.
 

CadetNewb

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Right. I was under the impression Fred was thinking only he and Wes would be moderating the posts. That wouldn't work.
 

Wes

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Okay, as a trial, I've set all REPLIES in the Setting Submissions forum to be moderated. Moderators should be able to see them but they won't be public until they're approved. NEW POSTS (the submissions) are not moderated in this way.
 
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raz

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Thanks for your constant hard work, Wes. And for putting up with this thread at all. It's often been wild but hopefully this will be a solution that can help everyone calm down about submissions :D
 

CadetNewb

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I'll give things a shot tonight or tomorrow. I think Meta and Arbs should have access so they can give feedback as well though. Every bit helps.
 

Doshii Jun

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But I'm Bob from the foundation board who has previously been the editor of several sections, is still the editor of several sections, was here through the paper's rough years and helped it become what it is, and has had more current editors show an appreciation for his help than do not.
Past contributions not withstanding, Bob would've been shown the door for workplace harassment and garbage attitude awhile ago but for extenuating factors. Packaged deals sometimes go that way.

Looking forward to seeing how this works out. Good luck to all.
 
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CadetNewb

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Now that the new system is being tested, how do we approve replies to be seen? Or is it just Wes and Fred approving replies?
 

Fred

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If you have forum moderating priviledges, you'll see it up at the upper-left of the forum:
mod1.jpg
(I use the Old-School black theme, but it should be about the same in any theme)

Clicking over moderation has you reach the moderation queue, where you can look into certain cases. For example:
mod2.jpg

On a good day, you click approve on the entry, then go at the bottom of the moderation queue page, and click on the "Update moderation queue" button to bring the chosen changes into play.

Also, as Staffer, I get to look in the threads themselves to see the posts to be moderated. Like so:
mod3.jpg

Unfortunately, I don't seem to have the possibility of approving a post to be moderated within its context. Which is kind of a pain. All I can do so far is look at them all listed out of context in the moderated queue.
 
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raz

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One thing I realized this morning is that, once approved, people can just edit their posts, right?

It's not really a concern, since nobody has ever posted in a submission just to be rude or obstruct it, so it's not like we're going to see people trying to skirt the process by editing.

I think the point I'm trying to make on the heels of Fred's Xenforo tutorial is that this is cool but it's also just a placebo. If that placebo works, great. But it's more constant responsibility for the mods and staff, as Fred pointed out, and little is actually different.
 
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