https://wiki.stararmy.com/doku.php?id=stararmy:weapons:ke-z1_series_anti-starship_torpedoes
A smaller, more PC friendly torpedo (speed heavily nerfed).
A smaller, more PC friendly torpedo (speed heavily nerfed).
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Z1 Series Light Torpedo
- Thread starter Wes
- Start date
Fred
Retired Staff
Fred likes this one a whole lot more.
Fred thinks they are a solid design and that the reduction in speed probably won't be noticed all that much in shipt-to-ship fight. they'll mostly act in the way Wes expects torpedoes to, and this is a good thing.
Fred would recommend having the torpedoes have a speed of 8c and have the high maneuvrability torpedoes have a speed of 12c for contrast. Smaller delay-to-impact is effectively a large contributor in accuracy and this would portray it very well (ideal target numbers for FTL torpedoes are 4c, 8c and 12c).
Fred is, nonetheless, generally very pleased with it and thinks this will do SARP good.
Fred thinks they are a solid design and that the reduction in speed probably won't be noticed all that much in shipt-to-ship fight. they'll mostly act in the way Wes expects torpedoes to, and this is a good thing.
Fred would recommend having the torpedoes have a speed of 8c and have the high maneuvrability torpedoes have a speed of 12c for contrast. Smaller delay-to-impact is effectively a large contributor in accuracy and this would portray it very well (ideal target numbers for FTL torpedoes are 4c, 8c and 12c).
Fred is, nonetheless, generally very pleased with it and thinks this will do SARP good.
Fred
Retired Staff
Fred doubleposts!
Say Wes, I've noticed the torpedo's small size. My personal recommendation would be to double it. The reason is more to treat them like actual torpedoes when they are handled, and regarding size of the casing. At 4.5 meters, they're still smaller than a lot of stuff up so far.
Don't forget those torpedoes can be intercepted by weapon's fire. Having a larger casing to protect them could be more useful than simple miniaturization.
I also noted the torpedo uses only a CDD instead of a CFS. I think that's a good idea. CFS ought to be seen more on less expendable, state-of-the-art equipment to denote higher quality.
I'm curious: does the Z1 stand for anything?
Say Wes, I've noticed the torpedo's small size. My personal recommendation would be to double it. The reason is more to treat them like actual torpedoes when they are handled, and regarding size of the casing. At 4.5 meters, they're still smaller than a lot of stuff up so far.
Don't forget those torpedoes can be intercepted by weapon's fire. Having a larger casing to protect them could be more useful than simple miniaturization.
I also noted the torpedo uses only a CDD instead of a CFS. I think that's a good idea. CFS ought to be seen more on less expendable, state-of-the-art equipment to denote higher quality.
I'm curious: does the Z1 stand for anything?
The Z designation is a new nomenclature (like S for gunship and M for power armor or mecha) for torpedoes and this is the first torpedo made by KFY.
On the size, I found out that the US Navy's main torpedo is only 8 feet long these days, so I figured I'd give the Z1 similar dimensions.
On the size, I found out that the US Navy's main torpedo is only 8 feet long these days, so I figured I'd give the Z1 similar dimensions.
Right.
Fred
Retired Staff
Wes said:
Oh. Good idea, looking at real world examples. However, despite its lesser speed, it does pack a very good punch so perhaps you should base yourself off the Mark 48 Heavy Torpedo?
The size doesn't matter that much - truth is, I don't really mind. I mean, right now, the size you've chosen is around the same size Star Fleet photon torpedoes are and I happen to like Star Trek.
However, here are two thoughts coming to me:
~ The Z1 is still very powerful. What if you actually want to have a less powerful torpedo type around? wouldn't you need to make it even smaller? How small can we really go with a torpedo and still call it a torpedo? It might be smart, design-wise, to actually allow for further miniaturization for the sake of a weaker weapon system. (think of the contrast between the AS-5 and the AS-7 as an example of what I mean)
~ Some KFY ships have missile launchers. What distinguishes a missile launcher from a torpedo launcher? (The T30 Irim has some) Perhaps thinking about it now could help us solidify the distinct identity of each of those guided projectile weapon system?
Well...there's always the option of less powerful warhead modules for this.
But those two are the same size...the AS-7 is just faster.
Torpedo launchers in the SARP generally provide some starting propulsion and they're usually much bigger for that reason.
Fred
Retired Staff
Wes, if you go read carefully, you'll notice a AS-7 takes twice the space a AS-5 takes. It's about twice as long.
You have a point, though the AS-5 and the AS-7 did set a precedent. I'm really only brainstorming with you to see to some iffy details and choose to change them to make more sense or more consistency if you'd like, while were on this submission.
Aren't the torpedoes equipped with a CDD unit? Doesn't this give instant acceleration? If you look at it on paper it doesn't look like the launcher acceleration is all that useful.
In fact, it's a wonder those torpedoes have a forward facing. They could be circular and not even need a launcher to be able to reach their listed speed instantaneously. The only reason I imagine they'd be made cylindrical or cubic would be for storage (spheres waste space while cubes would stack neatly).
So, again, seeing that the actual acceleration of the torpedo in the launcher system is a little redundant... what's the actual difference between a missile and a torpedo? Striking power? Faster-Than-Light capabilities? Size? Anti-Starship capabilities? Atmospheric use?
OsakanOne
Retired Member
I like. You're making the round reasonable and smaller so presumably launchers can deal with them more quickly.
My two cents on how things are. No drama, just my personal opinion.
FTL torpedos are glorified self-guiding rockets. They're launched, they aim, activate their engines accelerate to attack-speed and they either hit or they miss and that's the end of it.
If you want to overcome the "it's cheating at close-range!", have them (the torpedo) accelerate gradually, able to achieve high speeds for far-away targets but remain at reasonable speeds over reasonable distances, tracking until right before they hit the really high speeds that would be silly at close range so they remain accurate.
This would bring ships closer to each-other and I imagine fights getting more interesting because it'll be less like sniping - with armor roles really being especially useful for supporting ships - which is great for players.
You dump 4 or 5, they line up and guide, like real torpedos do and when they're lined up reasonably, they switch to FTL, moving STL until then. At close range, they become STL torpedos.
...unless the dedicated launcher gets the round up to speed early and aims for the round. Ships with these "sniper" weapons could augment the huge beam arrays as a tactical class of starship with high-precision torpedo style weapons for striking outposts and enemy ships to disable them.
They posses no engines and FTL does not function in a dense atmosphere or area with complex magnetic/ionic action such as a planetoid - they become glorified FTL rocket bombs unable to effectively guide themselves.
A stray round like this striking a planet though at any value of C would be disastrous, continents and mountains re-written in strikes, burning cities to the ground with the plasma left by the super-heated air.
The dangers of friendly fire when defending your home would be truly insane. They should be sanctioned for use only away from home territory at those speeds.
My two cents on how things are. No drama, just my personal opinion.
Post-FTL speeds, they cannot decelerate or change direction. The forces would crush the torpedo and it's cost in engineering and construction would sky-rocket to survive these forces.
FTL torpedos are glorified self-guiding rockets. They're launched, they aim, activate their engines accelerate to attack-speed and they either hit or they miss and that's the end of it.
If you want to overcome the "it's cheating at close-range!", have them (the torpedo) accelerate gradually, able to achieve high speeds for far-away targets but remain at reasonable speeds over reasonable distances, tracking until right before they hit the really high speeds that would be silly at close range so they remain accurate.
This would bring ships closer to each-other and I imagine fights getting more interesting because it'll be less like sniping - with armor roles really being especially useful for supporting ships - which is great for players.
You dump 4 or 5, they line up and guide, like real torpedos do and when they're lined up reasonably, they switch to FTL, moving STL until then. At close range, they become STL torpedos.
...unless the dedicated launcher gets the round up to speed early and aims for the round. Ships with these "sniper" weapons could augment the huge beam arrays as a tactical class of starship with high-precision torpedo style weapons for striking outposts and enemy ships to disable them.
Space-use torpedos are useless in atmospheres, if not utterly suicidal: Their targetting systems have a wide aperture (lockon prior to launch) and they aren't designed to turn around - just strike their target and detonate over some huge distance at speeds that would evaporate them with the heat generated by friction (literally).
They posses no engines and FTL does not function in a dense atmosphere or area with complex magnetic/ionic action such as a planetoid - they become glorified FTL rocket bombs unable to effectively guide themselves.
A stray round like this striking a planet though at any value of C would be disastrous, continents and mountains re-written in strikes, burning cities to the ground with the plasma left by the super-heated air.
The dangers of friendly fire when defending your home would be truly insane. They should be sanctioned for use only away from home territory at those speeds.
Fred
Retired Staff
Personally, I'd recommend approval.
I would like for Wes to make the default FTL speed of this one 8c and the high-maneuverability type 12c, but that's merely a nitpick on my part because I believe it'd make it a more meaningfully solid submission. Trust me, Wes; coherent and meaningful is good - actually heeding this is going to make me want to use it instead of make my own, probably.
Perhaps the Shield damage of 5 could be explained. Normal weapons deal 5 damage and the shield-damaging weapon deals 5 shield damage. If that's the case, why have a shield-damaging torpedo at all? My recommendation? Have it do double damage against shields but damage only shields. While it's powerful, I'd also make it so that only one shield-debilitating effect can be active at one time (so, additional shield-damaging torpedoes wouldn't work until something like 10 seconds have gone by). It essentially would make it a viable replacement to the AS-7 SDM warhead, would be a terrific weapon to use to weaken a ship's protection and yet not be as horrendously debilitating as the SDM warheads are.
I would like for Wes to make the default FTL speed of this one 8c and the high-maneuverability type 12c, but that's merely a nitpick on my part because I believe it'd make it a more meaningfully solid submission. Trust me, Wes; coherent and meaningful is good - actually heeding this is going to make me want to use it instead of make my own, probably.
Perhaps the Shield damage of 5 could be explained. Normal weapons deal 5 damage and the shield-damaging weapon deals 5 shield damage. If that's the case, why have a shield-damaging torpedo at all? My recommendation? Have it do double damage against shields but damage only shields. While it's powerful, I'd also make it so that only one shield-debilitating effect can be active at one time (so, additional shield-damaging torpedoes wouldn't work until something like 10 seconds have gone by). It essentially would make it a viable replacement to the AS-7 SDM warhead, would be a terrific weapon to use to weaken a ship's protection and yet not be as horrendously debilitating as the SDM warheads are.
Immortal Cyan
The Cyan Neko
I used one of these to kill a L'Kor battleship with Yamasaki Ayane on the YSS Imperator! Very fun!
Added OOC Notes: https://wiki.stararmy.com/doku.php?id=stararmy:weapons:ke-z1_series_anti-starship_torpedoes
Added OOC Notes: https://wiki.stararmy.com/doku.php?id=stararmy:weapons:ke-z1_series_anti-starship_torpedoes
