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A little suggestion.

ShotJon

ShotJon

Well-Known Member
Before anything I would please ask you to go a little easy on me. This is first time I am putting anything here.

Now let's get down to the bussiness. I am a player in mecha plot and we have currently two mecha plot. Atuan and Bahram Wing. I think Mecha need a little more attention.

We have danced around putting mecha scale into the work for months. I have though about and in the end even as mecha player I think that mecha scale is not needed. There are other possibilietes. But first I want to get to one point.

I play in Atuan which is Mecha plot. And I do feel uncomfortable with mecha in its current state. It feels like they are weak. Let's do a little comparison. Hostile suit used largely by Nepleslia is about two meters tall and has 15 points of sp and used all its weaponty (both rifle and missile) it can deal six or seven ADR a turn if all its weaponry should hit. Now let's have a look at Asura. It is big mecha which is almost 9 meters tall and has only 20 SP. Yes you will say that it can deal a lot of damage. Well yes it has ranged weaponry thac can deal about 13 ADR shoul all it weaponry hit. But do you think it will hit? No it won't. That is impossible. So you get mecha that is four time bigger then PA and has only five points more of SP on it whily it won't be able to deal much more damage.

As a player of mecha I am not comfortable with it. Like I sad there were suggestion about introducing mecha scale of SP. Yes that would be quite a possibilty. But it would also need change in most quite a lot of our wiki pages. So let's do this. Let!s put Mecha into SDR: Asura for example could have SDR 6. It sound much more formidable and makes it soak twice as much damage as Hostile, while the Asura is four times bigger then the PA.

I want also say one think. I would like if tanks would be kept in ADR. For one reason that I think is pretty good one. There is no plot about tanks. No one really uses them IC. So yeah tanks are cool but apparently mecha are cooler since we have two plots with them.

Now I would like if ther would be disscussion about this matter. First of all I would like Exhack, Cadetnewb and Kai say what they think about this suggestion since they are Mecha GMs. Then I would ask other mecha-plot players what they think and what they want and of course it would be nice to heat from Wes, Nashoba, Doshii and Fred as they are main admin-force of SARP. And of course I would like to hear from as many faction masters as possible.

I also don't want ot be rude but if you have no interest in mecha please don't post here to be rude or troll. I want to take this thread reasonably and put thought in it. So please be kind and don't make fun of it or anyone who posts here.

So let's see what others thinks.
 
I think it works just find in all honesty. Mecha are not star ships, and they are not tanks, they are armored vehicles essentially.
 
I would be willing to put mecha over a certain size in the SDR level 1 category (up to 10 starship SP) if the consensus agrees with that.
 
To me, Putting Mecha into the SDR category feels kinda wrong.

I still believe that the easiest, best, and most effective way to solve this problem is to add an MDR section to the DR scale for such things as tanks and Mecha, properly scaling them between Powered armor and Starships.

However, since Nobody seems to want to choose the best option, I would be willing to agree to Wes' suggestion if it comes down to it.
 
I'm afraid I'd have to disagree Ira. For some time, I myself have been very uncomfortable with the current status of the SP that Mecha and Frames are allowed to have in comparison to Power Armor. It seems very strange that a 6 meter tall war machine has only roughly 5 more ADR than say, a Hostile, which is 15 ADR. Though it is true that they can still move to dodge, it must be taken into consideration Frames and Mechs are roughly 3x larger as well. Its like, say, shooting a barn's broad side. Yes, they can house more firepower, but then they're essentially what we like to call a 'glass cannon'. Which is the size of a barn.

Though I do like Wes' suggestion, I do not think it necessary at all; so far, all player Mechs and Frames are roughly 6 meters tall, and I doubt we'll make a true Gundam sized one anytime soon, except for a boss fight or other. And even I must admit, that feels silly.

Instead, what I recommend, is allow a simple boost to current Mech's SP values. Go from a max of roughly 20 to a maximum SP value of 30. It would make them tough and difficult for players in power armor to kill, but not impossibly so, as would making mechs into SDR do.

The MDR idea, as Kai has put forward, is also very, very appealing to me. But I fear it may rock the boat too much. For now, I am under the impression that Mecha and Frame players would be quite satisfied with having their SP cap raised to 30 ADR.
 
I understand you Kai. MDR would be nice, but it would probably need some serious editing on wiki. That is why I proposed use od SDR.
 
If it is in the starship scale, it should probably be a starship-sized mecha.
 
I've actually looked into the Wiki editing needs of adding an MDR scale. 90% of the editing required would be changing an A to an M.

If that's too difficult for some people, then.. well, I don't know what to say.
 
Wes said:
If it is in the starship scale, it should probably be a starship-sized mecha.
Click to expand...

Very much true, however, I thought we were mostly discussing 'standard' sized mechs and frames not in this size or tonnage? For these models commonly used in roleplay, the boost to their shield and hull rating seems more than adequate at the time.

kai said:
If that's too difficult for some people, then.. well, I don't know what to say.
Click to expand...

And, I hate to say it, It might just be too much Kai. Look at the Plumeria's guns for an example. Several of them are ADR 5, used en-masse to harm other ships as they equate to SDR 1. Now that I think of it, it would cause a lot of trouble.

Also, keep in mind the oldschool rule we've had for some time. In RP, I've gone more by this rule and less by the Damage Rating guideline, as I felt the current assigned DR did not accurately portray the machines in use. What I am suggesting is changing the guideline so it properly represents the In-Character Roleplay that we've done.
 
I don't think there is anything stopping someone from making a starship shaped like a mecha now, but like Wes said it would probably be much larger than current mecha...

And changing the rules just so you can make more powerful mecha doesn't seem like a good idea especially if you are advocating that this ONLY help mecha. The core of your argument seems to be: I like X so X should be more powerful.
 
Not this again.

Damn. I really wanted to avoid yet another thread of this.

Suffice to say, my thoughts about this have not changed from what I revealed in my musing thread over damage ratings in SARP. That's where I consolidated my arguments on the subject matter.

If Wes is willing, in the current system he endorses, to support SDR grade mecha (where do they have 25cm+ thick armor exactly?) then I'd say it's gone off the deep end.
 
Frames and mechs in SDR scale.

Though this thread started on that topic, I think we've moved away from that idea; like Fred said, its going of the deep end. Instead, I think we've moved on to a better idea; allowing them to have 30 Armor SP instead of 20, which is much more reasonable.
 
FIrst I want to repeat that I started this thread as disscussion.

What is my problem is that I don't like mecha that are four times bigger than PA be only about 20% more tough. I dislike this and it seems wrong to me. I do not want mecha to be super-strong because I like mecha, I want to it to be balanced. Or more balanced. I just thinkg that mecha should be stronger than PA, that single mecha shoudl be able to kill single PA. With how things are now, two PAs can take out one mecha pretty easily. I am not fond of that.
 
Mecha and PA are in different parts of the combat chain though.

Power armor are people sized, meaning they can go into houses, starships, and other places that people like to hide, store things, or do things of importance.

Mecha are too big for that, and are stuck fighting in open areas along with tanks and fighters.

And since power armors are supposed to essentially be miniature tanks, and carry anti-tank weapons, it makes sense that they can defeat vehicles in close quarters. Vehicles that are used in RP are generally used because of their usefulness not because of their ADR rating and I don't think adding 5 more ADR points to the ADR scale is really going to change anything.
 
Sooo Uso. Are you suggesting to GM to ignore Sp rates when it comes to mecha and just do whatever they fell like works?
 
The lowest tier on the starship size guideline chart has a minimum of 30 meters, so that would be the size that a mecha would have to be to get into the SDR scale.
 
Uso said:
Mecha and PA are in different parts of the combat chain though.
Click to expand...
I agree.

The only problem is that PA, going by the numbers alone, have far too easy a time against Frames and Mechs. Personally, I believe that Frames fall into much a similar, if not the very same, combat chain as tanks and fighters. The frames being more effective but also larger and more costly alternative to the two. But now that you bring them up, yes, I believe even the current tanks and fighters appear too thin on the charts comparison to PA considering their role. They all could use a boost to more accurately portray how they fair against PA in RP.

The Damage Rating system should more reflect how things go as we RP, and less the other way around. Though I imagine Fred is much miffed that an entirely new thread regarding Damage Ratings and so on has been created, I believe it is a good thing for one simple reason.

We're in need of something better. And this problem won't go away no matter how many times we ignore it.

And lets stay away from the SDR grade mechs, please!
 
In response to Shotjon

Vehicles that are used in RP are generally used because of their usefulness not because of their ADR rating
Click to expand...

I'm saying that a good submission isn't one that has 5 more SP than someone else's submission.
 
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