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Approved Submission [Advancer] BOOST Cardiovascular Supercharger

Syaoran

Staff Member
Submissions Reviewer
FM of Abwehr
Game Master
Alright I read this over and there are a few concerns I have with things that aren't explained. Due to the nature of this product, it wouldn't be as effective for every species due to different biological makeups, this needs to mention what species it was designed for and mention reduced effects for other species. (Ideally it would be best to talk to each species FM and figure out what they think).

Another thing is the side effects, there is no mention of how long the cool down between doses is, only that there is one. There is also no mention of if this is safe to use with other performance enhancers as well.
 

Firebrand

Submissions Reviewer
Game Master
I've added a list of species that it works on, a set cool down period, and a warning that you should not mix it with other performance enhancers because "the biochemistry changes are unpredictable."
 

Firebrand

Submissions Reviewer
Game Master
Am I really going to need this for every piece of cybernetics or pharmaceuticals now, even when the information in the wiki- y'know what, fine.
 

Syaoran

Staff Member
Submissions Reviewer
FM of Abwehr
Game Master
You wont need it for every cybernetic and pharmaceutical. The thing is this one deals with a very specific reaction, that would very much change among some species, and some of which are just straight resistant to pharmaceuticals. So we need to make sure such a doping drug is actually within the ideals of that specie's FM.
 

Firebrand

Submissions Reviewer
Game Master
Unless Nepleslians and the descendants of the Saal have radically different biochemistry from humans, there's no reason it wouldn't work from that end.

Edit: And when I say radically different, I mean radically different in the "Their muscles and cells don't even work the same way" kinda different.
 

Primitive Polygon

Well-Known Member
This is fine for Type Three Freespacers.

Type Ones are long dead. Twos are highly cyborgized and this would probably cause complications.

Thanks for the heads up, Syaoran.
 

Syaoran

Staff Member
Submissions Reviewer
FM of Abwehr
Game Master
Actually Firebrand, the main descendants of the Saal are the Iroma, and they have a vastly different nervous systems that receive and react to stimuli entirely different from humans, there is the possibility that this doping could effect that. As for Nepleslians, they aren't the concern, it's more ID-SOLs could possibly be effected by the doping.
 

Firebrand

Submissions Reviewer
Game Master
Actually Firebrand, the main descendants of the Saal are the Iroma, and they have a vastly different nervous systems that receive and react to stimuli entirely different from humans, there is the possibility that this doping could effect that. As for Nepleslians, they aren't the concern, it's more ID-SOLs could possibly be effected by the doping.
I was around when the Iroma was first made, Syaoran. And this doesn't effect the nervous system, it effects muscular activity and cellular respiration- So long as their muscles and cells work the same way by contracting using energy generated by ATP and Cellular Respiration.

But that's just me using my biology knowledge, so ignore that. What I'm trying to say is this: Do their muscles still work using muscular contraction, using ATP generated by Cellular respiration and the burning of fat and other secondary energy reserves, @Soresu , @Legix ? Or Are they so different from human baseline that that their body's biochemistry is completely different and does not use the same cycle (( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cellular_respiration )) that all air breathing animalia do?

Further, the page on the Iroma clearly states that, and i'm quoting it (( https://stararmy.com/wiki/doku.php?id=species:iromakuanhe )) here: Note: Any body systems not listed act exactly like they would do in humans.

As the page does not state that Iroma's Cellular Respiration or muscular function is different or special in anyway, we can safely assume that they work like they do in humans. Unless we'd like to retcon that, then I'd be happy to make that change to the Iroma's species page and whip up how they run on Copper and Methane instead of Iron and Oxygen. Same for Nepleslians and ID-SOL's.
 
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Syaoran

Staff Member
Submissions Reviewer
FM of Abwehr
Game Master
I know the drug targets the muscles, but that's not how biology works. Just because the focus is the muscles, doesn't mean there is no effect on other things. Especially considering that the Iroma nervous system has an ability to 'feel' things within a forth of a meter. But chemicals going beyond their usual levels in the body, can effect the nervous system even if the chemicals themselves aren't used in the nervous system.

In short, the body is not a bunch of closed off systems that do not interact with each other, even less so with some species in the setting. Let the FM's come in and state their opinions, and don't use cherry picked science to tell them how their species should receive the drug when they do come.
 

Firebrand

Submissions Reviewer
Game Master
I'm not telling them anything, But you're right that this should be up to the FM's. But that standard should apply to every single piece of submitted pharmaceutical then, and not just to one thing I made. That's why i'm being so ornery about this, because it feels like it's an overly onerus standard being applied to something I made for no other reason than "It selectively applies to a few certain species" from my perspective, even if that's not what you intend it to look like.
 

Syaoran

Staff Member
Submissions Reviewer
FM of Abwehr
Game Master
Almost if not every pharmaceutical either uses something that is 'conventional' and done in a way that it doesn't need to be questioned if the species can use it or not (usually being tailored for one specific species or group), or is made within one of the companies that already falls under the FM in question's review, so it still ends up getting FM approval anyway.

And I'm going to be honest, your 'perception' of the situation is no excuse to be onery. Even if what you were perceiving was true two wrongs don't make a right, and you'd be the one ending up with an article not approved. So just relax. There is a reason why I made you list species that it works with, and there is a reason I'm making you get FMs for those species to sign off on it. And that reason essentially comes down to this is a complex chemical compound that has had zero FM oversight to say whether it would work in the species or not. And we're not talking about small quantities either like a tiny dose of pheromones. Even if species do things the same way, with the dosage level, and different biochemestries, it's well within possibilities that some species it's not enough, and for other's it's too much. It's as you said,like putting Nos in a car engine, even engines that work the same way, the specifics of details in design can cause a difference in effect.
 

Soresu

FM of the Iromakuanhe
I'd honestly give it a 50/50 chance of working on the Iroma. Which may include some complications, not for everyone, but kind of like how allergies work. This way if a player wants to play an Iroma, and desires to use this, they have the option to do so. If that is acceptable.
 
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Syaoran

Staff Member
Submissions Reviewer
FM of Abwehr
Game Master
@Soresu whatever you want is acceptable, it's your species. The conversation above was just to highlight to Firebrand possible trains of logic that might not make it work for a species, not to say that it should or shouldn't. If you want it can be anywhere from fatal, to safe, 50/50 is acceptable as well.
 

Soresu

FM of the Iromakuanhe
I'd like it at 50/50 just to allow the possibility of complications, allergic reactions and so on. :)
 

Legix

FM of Nepleslia
Game Master
I'm fine with it working 50/50 and/or on a selective basis on ID-SOL; but I want to stress that it should be discouraged among them. ID-SOL consider themselves (rightly so) as the most dangerous beings around. There would be stigma around using augments, both biological and cybernetical. The only reason ID-SOL used cybernetics, AFAIK, was to replace limbs in a rush where cloning/producing a limb replacement wasn't an option. As long as this is adhered to, I'm fine with giving players the potential to use it for their specific ones.
 

Firebrand

Submissions Reviewer
Game Master
In that case, @Syaoran , how does this new wording work:

"Boost so far only works on the more human of the human-derived species in the sector: only Nepleslians; Humans; and Type III Freespacers can use it with no unforeseen side effects. The descendants of the Saal and ID-SOL are physiologically and genetically close enough for it to function, but minute biological differences mean that effectively 50% of Saali descendants and those with the Super-Y Chromosome are unable to properly utilize BOOST and simply flush it out of their systems. Other species' immune systems prevent it from working, or their genetic differences from baseline humanity make it impossible for it to work. "
 

Syaoran

Staff Member
Submissions Reviewer
FM of Abwehr
Game Master
Well that mostly works, though also Soresu wanted the possibility of complications, not just 'it doesn't work'
 

Firebrand

Submissions Reviewer
Game Master
"Boost so far only works on the more human of the human-derived species in the sector: only Nepleslians; Humans; and Type III Freespacers can use it with no unforeseen side effects. The descendants of the Saal and ID-SOL are physiologically and genetically close enough for it to function, but minute biological differences mean that effectively 50% of Saali descendants will may have allergic reactions of some kind or find that BOOST does not work on them, while those with the Super-Y Chromosome are unable to properly utilize BOOST and simply flush it out of their systems. Other species' immune systems prevent it from working, or their genetic differences from baseline humanity make it impossible for it to work."

Okay, how about that?
 
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