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Anthro Info Page
- Thread starter Wes
- Start date
Well, yeah, that's the idea. But it's not easy to write a page for them. This is a cornerstone to start on and I'm hoping to expand it and give examples with pics. These are your basic anthros, and on the OOC side it's an olive branch to furry roleplayers that want to make a character that suits them without us having to add 600 species to cover everything from anthro rhinos to anthro dolphins. I mean, we have all this genetic engineering, surely there's a population of people that want to be wolf-dudes (for example) as well as people who are creating new mini-races by uplifting existing animal species to sentience.
Fred
Retired Staff
...I'm not wild about the idea of Yamataian anthros. I get testy just with the idea of nekovalkyrja ears being wrongly positioned... this however goes pretty far out the zone of comfort for my suspension of disbelief.
I'm okay with anthros being elsewhere. But having Yamatai have them in-faction on top of that kind of defeat the uniqueness pushed for by the Kohanians and the Hidden Sun people.
I'm okay with anthros being elsewhere. But having Yamatai have them in-faction on top of that kind of defeat the uniqueness pushed for by the Kohanians and the Hidden Sun people.
I'm not sure about this idea either. It seems gimmicky when we've already got a pair of fleshed out anthro options in the form of the HSC and the Kohanians. There's plenty more out there too.
It just seems like any other Bio modification that's available to any Yamataian citizen.
It just seems like any other Bio modification that's available to any Yamataian citizen.
A terrible idea.
Yamataians are about perfection. Reaching the pinnacle of evolution, in war and in peace. We have seen them master genetics to the level of femtomachines and computerized brains. Genetic engineering? Child's play fully maximized in the Nekovalkyrja. There is no perfection in anthros, especially with allowing people to upgrade to weaponized bodies.
Uplifting? First, it does not satisfy the arrogance typical of Yamatai. Giving an animal humanoid traits? Why? They are animals. There is no satisfaction in it, no advancement of the Empire or display of Yamataian prowess. It is turning an animal into a substandard human. Humans, with Yamataians on top, dominate for good reason. They are gods! They generally act like it, benevolent but aloof all the same.
Second, we have races already in the setting like this. You list them below. Why don't we fully use them?
Last, but most important: this feels like another cheap attempt to reach a new type of player to Yamatai, a type we never have much attracted. Other races do this better and with more gusto. Let those factions have those players! Stop dropping your feet at their doorstep and keep Yamatai pure, eh?
You might think Yamatai has less flavor than it used to, but I don't. Between your players and GMs, Yamatai has more character now than it has had in my seven years on this site. Let's keep it up.
Yamataians are about perfection. Reaching the pinnacle of evolution, in war and in peace. We have seen them master genetics to the level of femtomachines and computerized brains. Genetic engineering? Child's play fully maximized in the Nekovalkyrja. There is no perfection in anthros, especially with allowing people to upgrade to weaponized bodies.
Uplifting? First, it does not satisfy the arrogance typical of Yamatai. Giving an animal humanoid traits? Why? They are animals. There is no satisfaction in it, no advancement of the Empire or display of Yamataian prowess. It is turning an animal into a substandard human. Humans, with Yamataians on top, dominate for good reason. They are gods! They generally act like it, benevolent but aloof all the same.
Second, we have races already in the setting like this. You list them below. Why don't we fully use them?
Last, but most important: this feels like another cheap attempt to reach a new type of player to Yamatai, a type we never have much attracted. Other races do this better and with more gusto. Let those factions have those players! Stop dropping your feet at their doorstep and keep Yamatai pure, eh?
You might think Yamatai has less flavor than it used to, but I don't. Between your players and GMs, Yamatai has more character now than it has had in my seven years on this site. Let's keep it up.
I was thinking about one the of the oldest records of early SARPiverse stuff I have. It's from circa 1996--typed on a Commodore 128 in Ghostwriter and printed on dot matrix paper--and describes a Nepleslian starship pilot getting shot down by gangs in Funky City. In the article, that pilot is an anthro salamander. Anthros have been part of the SARPiverse since before it was SARP. Traditionally we've had to shoehorn them into alien areas, but the Yamataian-Minkan species is customizable enough to make them possible:
It's clear the article needs more work, and maybe I should be expanding the Yamataian-Minkan info before I make an anthro hub page. We could use a Nepleslian mutants, aliens, and anthros page too. I'm kind of okay with removing the part about uplifts as a current practice (though I'm assuming that's how we got Rhino-men in the first place?), at least for now.
So maybe the issue with this article is that it's too muddled trying to cover three types of anthros (Yams, uplifts, and the old kind) and instead should be more of a directory that directs players to ways to be an anthro character.NH-22 page said:
It's already covered in the Yamataian article, as posted above, that Yamataians abilities include full customization. The idea of them having only some sort of human-looking-only perfect master race is simply untrue, and limiting them is against canon and would be constraining the YSE playerbase in new and unwanted ways. While this article covers the SARPiverse in general, even without it people could still make anthro characters under the existing CCG. What I want it is to make it explicit and put it on the menu instead of having it be something people would have to ask about.Doshii Jun said:
They're already in faction and we need better documentation.Fred said:
You can't speak for every geneticist in the SARPiverse. You just can't.Doshii Jun said:
Adding diversity to the SARP doesn't take away from other factions. The races listed are more than just Yamataians with leopard heads, they are fully developed factions with cultures and are able to (and should) stand on that and on their own instead of physical looks.Doshii Jun said:
Yamatai and Nepleslia are diverse, and I'm not gimping my own faction to baby the other factions. The idea that Yamatai needs to be "pure" is the most distasteful thing to me. Yamatai has never been pure anything and to be frank I liked Yamatai better when we had Nepleslia as part of the YSE making us at our most impure! I want that diversity back.Doshii Jun said:
The Kohanians are not very fleshed out and because they almost never leave their "nature preserve" planet their presence in the setting is minimal. And the HSC are not open to players yet IIRC. Also as noted above, these are factions to play in and the anthro is more of a species group or even just an appearance.Doshii Jun said:
It's clear the article needs more work, and maybe I should be expanding the Yamataian-Minkan info before I make an anthro hub page. We could use a Nepleslian mutants, aliens, and anthros page too. I'm kind of okay with removing the part about uplifts as a current practice (though I'm assuming that's how we got Rhino-men in the first place?), at least for now.
You miss the point, but I stated it poorly. I'll clarify.
Wes, you illustrate it beautifully when you mention having anthros as far back as 1996. In the SARPverse.
Your SARP.
For years, Wes, we haven't seen anthros or even many mutants. Years and years. They're in the SARP you have in your head from 1996. Damn near 20 years ago now. We continue to go away from that, and see SARP evolve.
Listen to your players. SARP is part of them too, and they are a part of it.
I said I wish for you to be the big ideas man, and I still do. But bigger ideas than this.
Wes, you illustrate it beautifully when you mention having anthros as far back as 1996. In the SARPverse.
Your SARP.
For years, Wes, we haven't seen anthros or even many mutants. Years and years. They're in the SARP you have in your head from 1996. Damn near 20 years ago now. We continue to go away from that, and see SARP evolve.
Listen to your players. SARP is part of them too, and they are a part of it.
I said I wish for you to be the big ideas man, and I still do. But bigger ideas than this.
Aendri
Inactive Member
I have to say, I'm not in favor of this idea either. Regardless of how many references to it existing you pull, or how many ways for it to already exist there are, it's something that just hasn't drawn anyone in that I can tell.
On this, if nothing else, listen to the players, man. I'm not seeing much support for this idea anywhere, and drawing potential new players that you have no idea about in by pushing yet more of your veterans away just doesn't make sense on something like this. Create a new sub-race or something, but the population as a whole doesn't support this, so ignoring that and pushing through seems silly.
On this, if nothing else, listen to the players, man. I'm not seeing much support for this idea anywhere, and drawing potential new players that you have no idea about in by pushing yet more of your veterans away just doesn't make sense on something like this. Create a new sub-race or something, but the population as a whole doesn't support this, so ignoring that and pushing through seems silly.
Abwehran Commander
Inactive Member
While I'm indifferent over all to this idea, I think it's my duty as a fellow faction manager to ask this question.
Wouldn't this pull away players from other anthro-factions (whether already created or future)?
Wouldn't this pull away players from other anthro-factions (whether already created or future)?
It's unclear. However, keep in mind we don't prohibit other factions making infantry plots because they might draw away players from Yamatai's infantry plots. We don't keep people from making Elysians because it possibly pulls players away from Lorath. You get the idea.Abwehran Commander said:
More options for players is usually a good thing. Humans can serve in the Star Army and Minkan can serve in the NSMC. The point of the article is was to present the option of making an animal-like character without having to invent a whole new faction (and more dauntingly, a whole new history and timeline for that species) to justify it. This is something that gives our existing factions new options without creating additional competing factions.
I think what I should probably do it enhance the anthro-relevant info for the Yamataian CCG as a description of potential body mods and stick to my own faction. At the same time, we could really use a "Race of the Day" Creation Guide that lets people create minor aliens, anthros, and other odd characters. Finally, info the Nepleslian mutants and misc aliens population could be expanded upon. I would also like the create a sort of furry portal for incoming furry roleplayers, which could introduce the Kohanians, Qak'toro, and other options that may suit them, but that's something that we can worry about once we figure out the infrastructure.
I'm surprised at all the negative feedback. Is it because anthro characters are not considered serious enough for the setting? Is it because of negative stereotypes about furry-friendly roleplaying communities? A sort of racism against non-human-faced player characters?
Fred
Retired Staff
Wes, anthros just aren't part of modern yamatai. You're bringing up something that never even existed to us and we're supposed to accept it as gospel now on your say so in ways contrary to the years we've spent learning, understanding, roleplaying and living in that faction?
I don't have anything against anthros. I do object, however, to an idea I feel will dillute rather than strengthen Yamatai's identity as a faction. You've boasted why it was adequate, but I'm just not convinced and cyclically ragging on that point isn't going to make me feel that you are right, even in your lofty position of site admin.
As a GM, one of my jobs is portraying your faction and keep high standards. I don't want to be put in a position where I'd have to accept a Yamataian anthro or somesuch - I couldn't bear it... it'd feel beneath standards. It'd feel like choosing to be mediocre toward what I've been trying hard to favorably depict.
If Yamatai starts an officer exchange program and that we suddenly have salamander-headed nepleslian mutant pilots, Kohanians and Qak'toros joining our crews... it'd be odd, but I could accept that.
I don't have anything against anthros. I do object, however, to an idea I feel will dillute rather than strengthen Yamatai's identity as a faction. You've boasted why it was adequate, but I'm just not convinced and cyclically ragging on that point isn't going to make me feel that you are right, even in your lofty position of site admin.
As a GM, one of my jobs is portraying your faction and keep high standards. I don't want to be put in a position where I'd have to accept a Yamataian anthro or somesuch - I couldn't bear it... it'd feel beneath standards. It'd feel like choosing to be mediocre toward what I've been trying hard to favorably depict.
If Yamatai starts an officer exchange program and that we suddenly have salamander-headed nepleslian mutant pilots, Kohanians and Qak'toros joining our crews... it'd be odd, but I could accept that.
Fred I highly doubt that much of anything will change if we approve this and I don't expect anthro dudes to start showing up everywhere in Yamatai. But I do think we should officially acknowledge, although rare, that they can and do exist instead of waiting for some bold player to ask about if the Yamataian customization options cover having feathers and a falcon's head (I think they do!). Diversity is not a faction weakness. Having more types of people makes Yamatai better. Yamatai consists of many people and many species, and includes oddities.
Maybe anthros have been banned from the YSE military (which considered exotic appearances an issue for the same reasons as the species restriction act). Since most RP is military RP, that's one explanation why they've been unseen. We could explain their appearance as the ban being lifted. Anthro applicants could be evaluated on a case-by-case basis. Obviously finding a helmet to fit an anthro moose would be an issue and possibly bar a soldier from serving.
Maybe anthros have been banned from the YSE military (which considered exotic appearances an issue for the same reasons as the species restriction act). Since most RP is military RP, that's one explanation why they've been unseen. We could explain their appearance as the ban being lifted. Anthro applicants could be evaluated on a case-by-case basis. Obviously finding a helmet to fit an anthro moose would be an issue and possibly bar a soldier from serving.
A ban we have no RP showing ever existed? A type of diversity we've never seen anywhere in canon, even as far back as 2004? I don't remember any anthros even on the bloody catgirl boards!
And for the record, I'm not saying diversity is a factional weakness. I'm saying that Yamatai's culture could construe it as a weakness. Enormous difference.
* * *
Let's put it this way. If you want to ram this through and step over our heads — because you're not getting many in favor of it yet — at least do us the courtesy of making it a now-forward scenario.
By that, I mean we say in canon that anthros have not existed on Yamatai before, but now that the war is done, people are expressing new creativity. Cancel uplifting, cancel the idea that they've always been there. This is something NEW for Yamatai that is changing its culture toward something as yet unseen within the confines of the Empire. Maybe people want to be more like the Phods after trying their cuisine or something.
I think this remains a foolish idea.
I also don't think, after the requirement was pointed out to me, that you can meet the bar of "needed and/or useful to the setting."
But if you won't listen to us when we as your players, staff and community say we don't want it, do us that courtesy of the now-forward scenario.
And for the record, I'm not saying diversity is a factional weakness. I'm saying that Yamatai's culture could construe it as a weakness. Enormous difference.
* * *
Let's put it this way. If you want to ram this through and step over our heads — because you're not getting many in favor of it yet — at least do us the courtesy of making it a now-forward scenario.
By that, I mean we say in canon that anthros have not existed on Yamatai before, but now that the war is done, people are expressing new creativity. Cancel uplifting, cancel the idea that they've always been there. This is something NEW for Yamatai that is changing its culture toward something as yet unseen within the confines of the Empire. Maybe people want to be more like the Phods after trying their cuisine or something.
I think this remains a foolish idea.
I also don't think, after the requirement was pointed out to me, that you can meet the bar of "needed and/or useful to the setting."
But if you won't listen to us when we as your players, staff and community say we don't want it, do us that courtesy of the now-forward scenario.
Exhack
Inactive Member
You think it might be a good idea to give them a different name?
Uplifts sounds good and generic, or maybe give them some actual history. Name their particular group after the doctor or corporation that pushed the uplifting process, write in an identity. I see you trying to add content to the site, but you have a glibness that makes the effort unsatisfying.
Anthros sounds like the most blatant grab for new players without really trying to tailor it to SARP at all.
Uplifts sounds good and generic, or maybe give them some actual history. Name their particular group after the doctor or corporation that pushed the uplifting process, write in an identity. I see you trying to add content to the site, but you have a glibness that makes the effort unsatisfying.
Anthros sounds like the most blatant grab for new players without really trying to tailor it to SARP at all.
Fred
Retired Staff
Okay, I need to make something clear too.
I have no problem with Phods, Kodians and Essians in Yamatai - heck, they could even be in my plot. I have no problem with an alien species within Yamatai that happens to be anthropomorphic.
What I have a problem with is the mental picture of a horse-headed minkan (or whatever animal head). As long as our anthros are not part of the yamataian species, I have absolutely no problem with this. Them being sidelined by the species restriction order also makes sense to me (it's hard to be a nepleslian in a yammie plot, and probably even worse with an anthro - I mean, the Star Army likes its stuff homogenized and standardized... makes sense that they not be in the picture).
If we have salamander-headed mutants that come from Nepleslia in the Yamatai Star Empire, I don't have much of a problem with that either.
Basically, as long as the Yamataian species itself isn't anthropomorphized (a group which includes the Geshrin/Yamataian/Minkan and the various neko iterations; as well as perhaps as extended family elves, trolls and elysians) I'm fine. I'm good with this.
I have no problem with Phods, Kodians and Essians in Yamatai - heck, they could even be in my plot. I have no problem with an alien species within Yamatai that happens to be anthropomorphic.
What I have a problem with is the mental picture of a horse-headed minkan (or whatever animal head). As long as our anthros are not part of the yamataian species, I have absolutely no problem with this. Them being sidelined by the species restriction order also makes sense to me (it's hard to be a nepleslian in a yammie plot, and probably even worse with an anthro - I mean, the Star Army likes its stuff homogenized and standardized... makes sense that they not be in the picture).
If we have salamander-headed mutants that come from Nepleslia in the Yamatai Star Empire, I don't have much of a problem with that either.
Basically, as long as the Yamataian species itself isn't anthropomorphized (a group which includes the Geshrin/Yamataian/Minkan and the various neko iterations; as well as perhaps as extended family elves, trolls and elysians) I'm fine. I'm good with this.
I'll +1 Fred on that.
Thanks for your comments and feedback.
Here's the thing: The NH-22C and NH-31 Minkan are designed to be transfer-friendly. This means they can be customized to resemble almost anything. There are presumably Minkan trolls, Minkan elves, Minkan Phods, and Minkan Kodians. So if a bunch of Nepleslian mutants want to immigrate to Yamatai and get Minkan bodies, wouldn't it make sense for them to want to keep their shape? By extension, if you have a Yamataian goth girl that wants to design and transfer into a body that's half-spider, what's stopping her?Fred said:
Haha, well, yeah. But if we call them something different how are they going to find us? The name was using OOC terms for a type of character, rather than being an IC term. That's because there were a number of anthro types/explanations in the article. But I plan to overhaul it or delete it based on feedback and work only the angles people are more okay with.
What stops them from getting Neko bodies? Mishhu bodies could come in vogue now. Maybe we should try some Iroma bodies; those are pretty nifty, I hear!
Because Yamataian culture doesn't support doing any of this, that's why. The race that passed a thick-headed Species Restriction Act doesn't just learn all of its lessons in a couple years.
I said it once, and I'll say it again — Yamataians are gods. They are the zenith of their evolution in their minds. Even if people want to experiment, it isn't supported (to a large scale) by the still-homogenized culture of Yamatai, i.e. space Japan/Norway. See what we're getting at? They're the best of the best as it is. They JUDGE others who are not them, even if it is very covert in the culture.
Screw it, I have paying work to do.
Because Yamataian culture doesn't support doing any of this, that's why. The race that passed a thick-headed Species Restriction Act doesn't just learn all of its lessons in a couple years.
I said it once, and I'll say it again — Yamataians are gods. They are the zenith of their evolution in their minds. Even if people want to experiment, it isn't supported (to a large scale) by the still-homogenized culture of Yamatai, i.e. space Japan/Norway. See what we're getting at? They're the best of the best as it is. They JUDGE others who are not them, even if it is very covert in the culture.
This infuriates me. Wes, we can't even handle all the players WE HAVE! What the heck are you doing, trying to pull in more? And pull in a type of player some of your GMs don't even want to handle?
Screw it, I have paying work to do.
Fred
Retired Staff
Wes said:
Doctors. With brains. Common sense. Probably some unwritten civil law.
Yamataians look down on what is not like them. They are like that. You've spent years portraying them like that. We wouldn't be making a fuss if you hadn't succeeded in doing that.
A mishhuvurthyar living in Yamatai (i.e.: Hanako's batch) wouldn't be allowed to traipse down a street in Kyoto. You made clear implication of "if you want to live with us, you need to be like us". Your roleplayed Yamataians are in general pretty scornful of that.
Anyone wanting to transfer to a Yamataian body was probably stuck with the "you want it? well, it looks human" because that's what the NH series is in general: an artificially evolved expression of humanity. The Nekos themselves are about as far as Yamatai has gone in splicing animal parts, and that included tentacles, tails, wings and clawed digits to my knowledge.
With time, that was significantly dialed down. Now you're telling me that Yamatai is actually all very acceptant of that when the main species populating it - a species that is supposed to be the artificially crafted epitome of what is found appealing by this culture in a lifeform - was made to tone down its more animalistic features? (the LAST one is the cat ears, and even that has become tenuous with the option of the elf ears; an option -you- encouraged into becoming more mainstream)
So... you'll forgive me if I'm rather skeptical of all this when it's clear you've been sending mixed signals about what you really want, and are being prone to what feels very much like flights of whimsy in that regard.
...
Doshii, get out of my head. =P
