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Birth Control with Remote!

I would like to see this device become mandatory for welfare recipients. So tired of people getting on welfare then having several more babies so they can get more money.
 
I would like to see this device become mandatory for welfare recipients. So tired of people getting on welfare then having several more babies so they can get more money.
That's a myth.

Repeated studies show no correlation between benefit levels and women's choice to have children. (See, for example, Urban Institute Policy and Research Report, Fall/93.) States providing relatively higher benefits do not show higher birth rates among recipients.

In any case, welfare allowances are far too low to serve as any kind of "incentive": A mother on welfare can expect about $90 in additional AFDC (Aid to Families with Dependent Children) benefits if she has another child.

Furthermore, the real value of AFDC benefits, which do not rise with inflation, has fallen 37 percent during the last two decades (The Nation, 12/12/94). Birth rates among poor women have not dropped correspondingly.

The average family receiving AFDC has 1.9 children -- about the same as the national average.
Source: http://fair.org/extra-online-articles/five-media-myths-about-welfare/

Myth #2:Welfare encourages teen pregnancy and large, dependent families.

That's a proposition that drew hoots from 16 teenage girls in a Chicago Catholic Charities alternative high-school classroom, even as they stretched oversized sweatshirts over their expanding bellies.

"In Illinois you get $37 [a month] when you have another baby," says Vanessa, (not her real name), 16. "That won't even buy you Pampers for a month."
Source: Article: "The four biggest lies told about welfare" - Salt of the Earth magazine
 
I don't care what those articles say Wes, because I know what I have seen here in NC.

Bottom line, I still would like to see it employed, because if you aren't working you should not be having more children that you can't provide for on your own.
 
Deciding who should be able to, and not be able to have children is pretty offensive.
What other conditions, aside poverty should mean the state forbids you to procreate?

I can think of at least half a dozen that would come before poverty.


That birth control on remote would be perfect if it was possible to use it just exactly when needed, instead of having to add hormones to the body constantly.

I can see though that the way it's described to work, it wouldn't be legal in lots of places (since you could use it to terminate pregnancy) and turning it on would in many cases mean you'd still need to go and see a doctor in order to have it activated.
 
I still would like to see it employed, because if you aren't working you should not be having more children that you can't provide for on your own.
I'm reminded of the time my brother suggested Africans (as in the people of that continent) should stop reproducing because they were too poor to raise their kids to American standards.

Are you aware that in order to even get welfare you have to be working or actively looking for work? In your state (NC) there's even a "Work First" program that matches people up with jobs.

Finally, are you really in support of a government so invasive that it forces women to choose between surgical implants or starvation? I think that's barbaric. What's you're suggesting is literal eugenics by socioeconomic class. What would be the next step? How about giving these implants wifi that activates them when your bank account balance is below $20,000? A male version? Breeding licenses?
 
Having one or two children is one thing. Having ten or more children, not knowing who the father(s) are, and being 99% dependent on welfare is very excessive. At the end of the day every economy can only support so many people before it has to cut others off of financial support. I know a girl who's mom had a ton of illegitimate children and was living off the government. Her daughter(the one I went to school with) had earned her own way into the more exclusive school I was attending(exclusive meaning it was the only A rated school in the area and had a waiting list of 300+). She told me some stuff and apparently her mother was doing the same thing another family in her neighborhood was doing. It's not fair for a kid to never have enough time with their parent because their parent is not responsible enough to quit the party life.
I'm not saying all people on welfare are like that but that is the stereotype and one thing we know about stereotypes is that they are based on majorities.
 
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Wes,

My view remains unchanged. If you are not employed in a capacity that can take care of your children you should not be having more of them.

Given the numbers of teenage pregnancy that I've seen at our local High School, I would be tempted to recommend this chip for all young girl with it turned on until they at least reach the age of 18. Children don't need to be having children, and most High School boys and girls lack the maturity for such a decision.
 
Wow I love how this interesting link, that Bio had brought us, has degraded into a semi-political argument...
 
It is food for thought. Seen too many young girls set themselves on a hard path of becoming a parent before graduating high school.
 
I'm hesitant to say anything, but I have to throw in another tidbit for consideration. A lot of people seem to confuse restrictions on and requirements for access to taxpayer funds with dictating what one can and cannot do in general. It all boils down to a matter of choice, and it seems like with each passing generation, Western society is trying harder and harder to remove or mitigate all potential negative consequences for poor decision making. I am raising my own children to accept the consequences of their actions, for good or bad, and I'm going to do my darndest not to come running to their rescue every time they do something silly that gets them into trouble. However, it seems that I'm in the minority in our society, as more and more I'm seeing both children and adults with a confusing sense that they are somehow owed something without good cause or explanation.

To begin, saying that requiring a measure of birth control (for men or women) is the same as eugenics is a bit of a stretch. In developed countries, there are always a number of options open to you, even if the one you prefer isn't available. If unprotected sex or reproduction is more important to you than receiving government assistance, then the public has no right to force it on you. But if you wish to receive government financial aid, I don't think it's all that unreasonable to expect some measure of safeguard to ensure that a lapse in your judgement won't end up costing the public more.

Think of it this way. When you go to work, your employer promises you a paycheck, but in return, at minimum they expect that you arrive on time and complete the tasks they assign to you in a timely manner. By accepting this job, you accept their terms and make the conscious choice to get up at 4 am to drag yourself to work when you would much, much rather be sleeping until you feel like relaxing on your patio with a cup of coffee. You also agree to spend your time performing tasks for someone else's benefit rather than your own. In return, your employer compensates you. I know it isn't an exact parallel, but my point remains the same - you have to give in order to get.

Secondly, bringing up the people living in Africa as an argument against the American system is grossly unfair, in my opinion. The nations of that continent lack the infrastructure and social stability that the Western world has, and as such, their situation, problems, and potential solutions won't be the same as our own.

As to the point about having to be "actively looking for work" in order to be on welfare, that much is true, Wes. However, and this is only one of many, many examples of how government regulation can backfire, consider how that stipulation is enforced. In most states, in order to prove that one is looking for work, all they have to show is that they applied to a certain number of jobs per month. I personally have witnessed many times a very slovenly young man (regardless of age or race) with an arrogant swagger, his pants pulled down around his thighs, a T-shirt so oversized it was akin to a dress, and smelling like they hadn't showered in days walk up to the counter at restaurants and stores in at least moderately affluent areas and mumble in the most unintelligible form of English that they would like to fill out an application. Two seperate times I've overheard them lightly insulting their prospective employer.

They aren't dressing and behaving this way because they don't know any better. They do it because they know it won't get them hired, because if they are hired, they would have to go to work.

I know that sounds unfair, but that's just one of dozens of ways the system can be gamed. Public education in the US is no different when the performance of a school is judged by its standardized test scores. Take it from me, while it sounds noble to someone who isn't directly involved in it, such a system does not encourage educating children; it only creates an oppressive environment in which administratinos hold teachers to unreasonable standards and expect their children to be taught how to take the test, not to foster a deeper understanding of the material. The bottom line: requirements have to be worded carefully, because whatever they call for are EXACTLY what you will get, regardless of any unintended consequences.

Before anyone tries to lynch me over this, know that I usually keep my opinion to myself. I value everyone's freedom of choice and strongly oppose any measures taken to limit a person's liberty, particularly when their choices have no effect on me. I also am not opposed to welfare payments to help struggling families in need of help through a tough time. But I also expect transparency and accountability from those who are managing our taxpayer dollars, and I expect some measure of control and good judgment in how it's spent. And to be frank, I don't see why that's so outrageous to some.


*runs and hides from the hail of rotten fruit*
 
No one is going to lynch you. What I said is my personal view, just as you shared yours. I respect you for sharing yours. And while I can say I would like to see something used, does not mean I would take steps to make it so. Because that goes against one of my core beliefs, the right to choose. We each have that right, and I will not take that from another, but they must also accept the responsibility of their decisions. which too often I have seen around here they dont
 
That's very much my belief, but my (overly long and entirely too roundabout) point above was that the right to choose your own lifestyle does not mean you have the right to expect others to pay for it.

But as you said, I shared my opinion, so now it's time to wipe my hands of it and just go back to being sweet. :p
 
Wow I love how this interesting link, that Bio had brought us, has degraded into a semi-political argument...
The ability of people to come together and share their opinions in a peaceful and tolerant manner is something to be proud of as it reflects a close knit, respectful community. I must respectfully disagree. In a sense Bio has given a the community something to think about and discuss, effectively adding to the community.
I would personally like to thank BionicSamurai for giving us an interesting topic to discuss
 
I wouldn't go as far as to make it mandatory but I think I'd be something that the government could pay for.

I viewed this information ages ago and speculated on what this could mean for our species and what roads it may eventually lead us on. But imagining a world where people only got pregnant when they wanted to is a wonderful thing. Hopefully eliminating the need for ovulation entirely. No periods. No hormonal crap. If you need an egg, you can trigger the production of one. And THAT I think will be necessary for a truly civilized society of the future. Mix this with life extensions and the impact on reproduction shouldn't matter, and would balance the worries against the other. People discredit the idea for longevity / agelessness for the ridiculous reason of "Overpopulation" or because they personally say "I'd hate to live forever, life sucks!" , triggered pregnancy would solve that while longevity would solve this.

While I AM religious, I don't let that affect the way I see the world as it is. While I hate abortion (though in some cases it is necessary. Initially I'm of the opinion that choice defaults to the baby after conception. But once the mother's life is in danger, it reverts back to the mother over the baby. So I AM pro-choice, I just have a larger view of "Choice" than simply "I do what I want" that makes room for responsibility. If you can't care for them, that is what adoption is for. ), birth control is almost entirely another matter. It also might be considered strange to be religious and transhumanist at the same time. But mortality and the inconveniences of life can stuff it. Life is about choices, and I choose to support the betterment of it. I long to see the technology of tomorrow because human mastery over the world around us does NOT conflict with my religion (Rather, I believe in God as a scientist you could say. Things didn't magically happen.) Some things are simply not right, but it is our right to choose what we do in this life. Bad things happen, but science brings about a whole lot of good to go with it.


Ending the curse of the monthlies would be a wonderful step to a brighter future. I really loved the news that we have this ability to remotely trigger birth control. I'm certain it can lead to more in depth control of our biological systems someday.
 
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I wouldn't go as far as to make it mandatory but I think I'd be something that the government could pay for.

Hmm... and where does the government's money come from? ;)


But imagining a world where people only got pregnant when they wanted to is a wonderful thing. Hopefully eliminating the need for ovulation entirely. No periods. No hormonal crap. If you need an egg, you can trigger the production of one. And THAT I think will be necessary for a truly civilized society of the future.

I am SOOOOOO on board with this idea. LOL


People discredit the idea for longevity / agelessness for the ridiculous reason of "Overpopulation" or because they personally say "I'd hate to live forever, life sucks!" , triggered pregnancy would solve that while longevity would solve this.

I'm not so sure I agree on that count, nor would I be so quick to call the idea that one would get bored of existence after a certain period of time "ridiculous." The universe is old. As in, far older than our feeble minds can comprehend. We humans like to think that we're the pinnacle of evolution, but in cosmic terms, we're less than infants. Human civilization hasn't been around long enough to even be noticed by any cosmic being that transcends time as we understand it. To put it in perspective, as far as we can tell today, the universe is approximately 14 billion years old. The earliest ancestors of humanity that we're aware of appeared roughly 10,000 years ago, and that's counting species that existed before recorded civilization. Thus, humanity has been around for roughly 0.0000714 percent of the universe's known lifespan. If you want to put that in terms of an average human lifespan of 75 years, that would be about the equivalent of one of us looking at a civilization smaller than a subatomic particle that has existed for about 0.17 seconds. Kind of puts things in perspective, doesn't it? :)

Because of that, I don't think humanity is qualified to judge one way or the other what the costs and/or benefits to effective immortality would be.


It also might be considered strange to be religious and transhumanist at the same time.

Not at all. I think the term "religious" in modern society has been confused with "irredeemably, intolerably reactionary and fundamentalist." There are plenty of religions out there that have a lot of good things to offer, and the people who are good students of them generally lead very good, fulfilling, and meaningful lives. And transhumanism and futurism, it could possibly be argued, is somewhat based on faith as well. I don't think that "scientific" and "religious" are nearly as mutually exclusive as a lot of people seem to think; it's perfectly reasonable to have both.


Life is about choices, and I choose to support the betterment of it.

Please keep this outlook as long as you can. More people need to understand this, as well as the fact that part of making choices is learning to accept the results of your actions. :)


Ending the curse of the monthlies would be a wonderful step to a brighter future.

Again, 100% agreed. :p
 
I'm not so sure I agree on that count, nor would I be so quick to call the idea that one would get bored of existence after a certain period of time "ridiculous." The universe is old. As in, far older than our feeble minds can comprehend. We humans like to think that we're the pinnacle of evolution, but in cosmic terms, we're less than infants. Human civilization hasn't been around long enough to even be noticed by any cosmic being that transcends time as we understand it. To put it in perspective, as far as we can tell today, the universe is approximately 14 billion years old. The earliest ancestors of humanity that we're aware of appeared roughly 10,000 years ago, and that's counting species that existed before recorded civilization. Thus, humanity has been around for roughly 0.0000714 percent of the universe's known lifespan. If you want to put that in terms of an average human lifespan of 75 years, that would be about the equivalent of one of us looking at a civilization smaller than a subatomic particle that has existed for about 0.17 seconds. Kind of puts things in perspective, doesn't it? :)
Oh I'm fully aware of that. I can't be as active as I use to, I spend a lot of time on philosophy. Studying space and time is a hobby of mine. It's why life surely exists but we're unlikely to ever see it. Since, in the vastness of space and time, countless other civilizations may rise and fall but they are separated by untold stretches of distance both spatial and temporal. I don't think it's out of the question that we could meet one, even perhaps having been born of one, but we'd be lucky to meet more than 1 other set of intelligent beings in our history.... unless we create them ourselves.

Because of that, I don't think humanity is qualified to judge one way or the other what the costs and/or benefits to effective immortality would be.
To judge is irrelevant. The costs, they too are irrelevant. All that matters is that it is achieved. With immortality the petty concerns of NOW that impede research into it socially and politically would have all the time in the world to resolve. When it comes to longevity the mindset should be to act now and fix later when you have the time.

Even if you float in space for untold centuries... when you have an eternity, something will always appear. Worst comes to worst, you have a lot of time to yourself to think and discover. But you'd have a lot of time to develop and explore as well. A million years alone would be worth the odd thousand here and there with different civilizations. Better yet though is if your civilization itself develops immortality and it isn't an isolated occurrence. You'd always have thousands of others like you to fall back on. Measures can be taken to prevent cycles of seemingly endless isolation. Though with forever it WILL come up eventually, but so to will escape from isolation.

I personally believe in eternal progression. I can't contemplate an end. There's no room for endings in my heart. Well. There can be ends, but no dead ends. Relationships may fall apart, buildings can crumble. But there cant be a limit on how far one can grow and achievements that can be made and there is always something else to do. An eternity of life is only as dead as you make it out to be. Same with normal life. So long as you keep living you can always be subject to change, good or bad. To quit that would only be to leave it on a sour note when good might have been around the corner. And not to pursue longevity would be similarly defeatist. To hold back innovation of long life because "Life could suck" isn't a far cry from suicide, except you'd also take others with you.


Not at all. I think the term "religious" in modern society has been confused with "irredeemably, intolerably reactionary and fundamentalist." There are plenty of religions out there that have a lot of good things to offer, and the people who are good students of them generally lead very good, fulfilling, and meaningful lives. And transhumanism and futurism, it could possibly be argued, is somewhat based on faith as well. I don't think that "scientific" and "religious" are nearly as mutually exclusive as a lot of people seem to think; it's perfectly reasonable to have both.
Exactly what I was considering when I mentioned being religious. Which I'm not sure why I mentioned it in the first place. Because I'm aware of the relationship religion has with contraceptives in the media I guess. Religion is, at least by tumblr logic, synonymous with things such as bigotry and even stupidity. That someone religious must be intolerable and cannot comprehend science. Science is certainly not exclusive of religion. Unless you're some sort of purist going by old roman standards that are self-serving and intended to smother potential threats to it's hierarchy, or certain extremist groups. Luckily my religion actually practices things such as love over hate, service over gain, and has a good connection with science and choice. I wonder if I'd be at all the same person of I was raised in a different religion. I might be dead by now, by my own hand even.
 
Oh I'm fully aware of that. I can't be as active as I use to, I spend a lot of time on philosophy. Studying space and time is a hobby of mine. It's why life surely exists but we're unlikely to ever see it. Since, in the vastness of space and time, countless other civilizations may rise and fall but they are separated by untold stretches of distance both spatial and temporal. I don't think it's out of the question that we could meet one, even perhaps having been born of one, but we'd be lucky to meet more than 1 other set of intelligent beings in our history.... unless we create them ourselves.


To judge is irrelevant. The costs, they too are irrelevant. All that matters is that it is achieved. With immortality the petty concerns of NOW that impede research into it socially and politically would have all the time in the world to resolve. When it comes to longevity the mindset should be to act now and fix later when you have the time.

Even if you float in space for untold centuries... when you have an eternity, something will always appear. Worst comes to worst, you have a lot of time to yourself to think and discover. But you'd have a lot of time to develop and explore as well. A million years alone would be worth the odd thousand here and there with different civilizations. Better yet though is if your civilization itself develops immortality and it isn't an isolated occurrence. You'd always have thousands of others like you to fall back on. Measures can be taken to prevent cycles of seemingly endless isolation. Though with forever it WILL come up eventually, but so to will escape from isolation.

I personally believe in eternal progression. I can't contemplate an end. There's no room for endings in my heart. Well. There can be ends, but no dead ends. Relationships may fall apart, buildings can crumble. But there cant be a limit on how far one can grow and achievements that can be made and there is always something else to do. An eternity of life is only as dead as you make it out to be. Same with normal life. So long as you keep living you can always be subject to change, good or bad. To quit that would only be to leave it on a sour note when good might have been around the corner. And not to pursue longevity would be similarly defeatist. To hold back innovation of long life because "Life could suck" isn't a far cry from suicide, except you'd also take others with you.

An interesting theory, truly. But again, since you and I lack the wisdom and perspective to put it to the test, we can discuss it for days and never make any progress. It's intriguing to ponder, nonetheless. :)

Something tells me that you would really enjoy reading Issac Asimov's short story "The Last Question."

Exactly what I was considering when I mentioned being religious. Which I'm not sure why I mentioned it in the first place. Because I'm aware of the relationship religion has with contraceptives in the media I guess. Religion is, at least by tumblr logic, synonymous with things such as bigotry and even stupidity. That someone religious must be intolerable and cannot comprehend science. Science is certainly not exclusive of religion. Unless you're some sort of purist going by old roman standards that are self-serving and intended to smother potential threats to it's hierarchy, or certain extremist groups. Luckily my religion actually practices things such as love over hate, service over gain, and has a good connection with science and choice. I wonder if I'd be at all the same person of I was raised in a different religion. I might be dead by now, by my own hand even.

I think that the media's summary judgement of religion and conservatism in general is one of the more glaring examples of hypocrisy in our microwave, lightspeed communication, instant-gratification society. We don't have time to think or ponder, or consider all facets of a situation, so we want it compressed down to an easy-to-understand one-line blurb. When "news" can be reported by anyone with an internet connection at the push of a button, the old, slow channels one once had to go through no longer have the chance to weed out more passionate (and less informed) viewpoints. Understand that I'm talking about all sides of a debate, not just one. It's human nature to demonize those we don't agree with to the point of reducing them to something less than human. I don't argue that there are people out there who are backwards, ignorant, and intolerant, but the dividing line isn't quite as clear cut as many would like to believe.

In the United States, Christianity is the most popular target as a bigoted and backwards practice. In reality, someone who actually has studied the religion more than just listening to feel-good and watered-down "Christian Rock" and taking select passages from its scriptures out of context would understand that Christianity at its core espouses the same virtues: love, brotherhood, humility, sacrifice, and service. (Why did I just have an Ultima IV flashback right there? :p) Christianity is not intended to give its followers a carte blanche to act as if they are holier than the rest of the population, although unfortunately there exist groups that do act that way, and they have it all wrong. And as I said earlier, the very idea that religion and scientific progress cannot coexist is entirely ludicrous to me.

Anyway, I think we've veered off the topic of this thread. LOL
 
Nah, he just looked at the matter from a different perspective. (The matter of contraceptive, and where this particular branch of contraceptives could potentially lead us in the future.)
 
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