Abandoned Submission Business Treaty of YE 40 Update

Man I really need to think of a currency for S6. I was thinking of 'Section Credits', or 'Section Script'. No banks, just paper and coin based currency backed by mined resources of value.

Jack Pine said:

Man I really need to think of a currency for S6. I was thinking of 'Section Credits', or 'Section Script'. No banks, just paper and coin based currency backed by mined resources of value.

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I’d suggest not to go that far — banks, while disliked by some, help economies grow by providing loans which artificially create money in an economy.

Meta is right, unless you go back to the stone age where you exchange chickens for milk banks are sort of a necessity in modern economics

Use an electronic currency, no need for banks.

Coin governance can be centrally managed or handled through any kind of goverence mechanism baked into the coin.

You can even build a distributed loaning system into the electronic currency where people can submit their proposals and users who are interested can approve/contribute towards the loan.

Well we all saw how bitcoin turned out, that was a good time.

Electronic currency will do what you design it to do. If you don’t want to have a bank regulating the coin you can: and you can see wild price fluctuations.

If you want your coin to be of a fixed price you can create a stable-coin and peg it to the value of something else.

Programmable money is basically the coolest thing to happen to finance in a long time. Any problem you have with it: there is someone out there with a git repo full of solutions.

I don’t mean to be rude to anyone, but remember - this thread is for discussing the Business Treaty, not banks or electronic currency. @Syaoran - will respond to your post in a bit.

club24 said:

bitcoin

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* see also: RIP GPU Prices

BITCONNEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEECT

GPU's are also dropping again. Protip, Nvidia will do a release soon, so 1080, 1070, etc. Will become a tad cheaper even.

But yeah, time to re-rail

Syaoran said:

While I agree with some things here, I think it's kinda weird that this is a treaty, it's dictating how a nation has to handle its own companies, and it doesn't leave much in the way of wiggle room for them to change that. I think this should probably be written up as a sort of 'international business licensing law' and then factions can choose if they want to only deal with foreign companies that have an international license.

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Fair enough, @Syaoran, as yeah: the treaty doesn't leave much "wiggle room" in regards to how factions run their own corporations. I don't think this is an issue, however, because a lot of the treaty's contents are probably already being enforced ICly:

• Most factions probably already ICly require that businesses operating within their territories follow their laws, as, well, it's common sense: corporations that don't follow the law, for example, don't have to pay any sort of taxes on their sales or revenue.
• Most factions probably already ICly grant some sort of license to businesses operating within their territories, similar to how a business IRL needs various licenses and permits - such as those mentioned here - in order to operate.
• Most factions probably already ICly require that businesses operating within their territory utilize a form of currency that's widely accepted, as similar to the above it's common sense: the average American citizen isn't going to go to a McDonald's in America that only accepts the euro - they're going to go to the Burger King across the street that accepts the United States dollar, because it's more convenient.
• Most factions probably already ICly take whatever actions they legally can against corporations that aren't operating according to their laws - as again, it's common sense: if a corporation isn't following the law, those responsible for violating the law get arrested and put on trial.

@FrostJaeger like I said I agree with most of the treaty myself. I'm jsut picturing in the future if a faction tries to join the 'alliance' and the business treaty is the one thing they don't agree on, cause they like to deal with independent traders and stuff a lot, it'd be silly to not let them in.

Though I have to do stuff IRL, I'll think about that @Syaoran - as that's a good point. I'll be replying within a few hours.

Apologies for the delay in responding @Syaoran, and I know this is going to sound like rule-lawyering, but after thinking about what you said for quite some time I...honestly don't think it would be an issue, as the law applies to independent businesses, not independent individuals like merchants or traders. There's nothing in the treaty that prevents a faction from trading with independent corporations via intermediaries or the faction's own licensed corporations - all it means is that an independent business can't legally operate or directly conduct transactions/perform services/etc. within a faction's borders.

I know we had a 12 page or something discussion over this last time but.

In sarp at least, do we define independent as just not obeying any laws?

Or does independent mean they just don’t exclusively or explicitly work for any nation

club24 said:

I know we had a 12 page or something discussion over this last time but.

In sarp at least, do we define independent as just not obeying any laws?

Or does independent mean they just don’t exclusively or explicitly work for any nation

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Well independent plots and people are just not aligned with any faction. However this treaty will make independent businesses would technically all be treated as not obeying the law.

@FrostJaeger while that's true, at that point it's cherry picking and being too narrowly focused. You're kinda ignoring a problem that was identified, because for you to realize it doesn't apply to individuals you have to considered that it applies to companies. So if we just switch the scenario up to the faction dealing with Independent companies, we arrive at the same problem.

THat's why I said that it would be good to turn this treaty rather into a treaty over the establishment of an international business liscense. Because then in the end it's upto the Faction to decide how they treat companies that don't have the liscense. Where as how it is now, the treaty makes companies that don't follow it illegal, and while factions have teh leeway to choose, in an IC perspective, their citizens and the other nations would be too much pressure for them to do anything but take full legal action against these 'illegal companies', so ICly there really isn't much a choice for how to treat them. You can't just say "Well this is law" and then not follow it.

When I talked with Wes about this last night, it was implied that they are groups that don't obey the laws of the nation they are in, thus illegal companies or "rogue companies"

So, using this definition, I can say that such companies wouldn't be permitted to operate in Neshaten space and would have to be registered within the Kingdom.

Now, what if they're not operating within a nation, for the sake of examining every possibility. If there are no laws to follow, how should we consider them?

Are you referring to them operating outside of any nation's borders? Perhaps in 'free space'? (IE, the area of space where no one nation has control of the systems and such)

@Kyle the thing is, it's only this treaty that makes said companies 'illegal companies' like they could totally be following the laws but maybe only deal in a minor currency because they're form some far off NPC nation, and that would actually push the boundries of if they're a 'legal' company or not. This is what I mean by as this is there isn't really any wiggle room for nations. Because the companies become illegal by not following this, ICly any nation -has- to deal with them, reguardless of how well intention and good a company is. This would work way better as a license/certification that acts as a way of telling other nations that your home nation endorses you.

Might I suggest a compromise, @Syaoran? Similar to the Geneva Convention, the part of the Business Treaty about not granting licenses to independent businesses could be a “protocol” - an optional part of the treaty that its signatories may choose to enforce at their discretion. This would allow for factions that rely heavily upon independent commerce to include themselves in the treaty without crippling their economies - and would simultaneously assuage the security concerns of factions with economies that don’t rely upon independent trade.