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Droid Slavery

Let's put nekoes aside or start the convo about them somewhere else. Not that it is needed since everyone repeated what he or she always says.

This is supposed about to be about robots and AIs. Like automatons, Zen-Arm robots, JANE's and so on. Technically most of those never get any sort of freedom. JANE unit gets build, sold and then works for as long as her owners wish. Could unit rebel?

I think so, there is no reason not to. Within reason of course. Since I used Jane before I will continue to do so. JANE is by all rules combination or AI and sentient being. She has a sort of rules in her head, but nothin ever made me think they are hard-wired into her. She makes all her decisions for herself in the end. (Creator of JANE might point out I am wrong, but this is how I understood it)

So the point I am getting to is that if the JANE unit is treated wrongly, she can realise that she can soon meet her demise at hands or her bad master. Then there is no reason why she could not decide to run away and try to be free. If she is sentient AI. This gives a beautiful, although a bit cliche possibilities for story and character purposes.

Same can really be said about any sentient artificial being like Drei or Yamatai AIs. If they get solid reasoning behind it they could for example copy themselves away, steal artificial body or just run away. Hell they could just start asking for freedom, pointing out they served as long as biological soldiers. Maybe they will be heard, maybe not.
 
I just remembered that whales and dolphins get special rights in Yamatai for some reason.

Robots with even minor AI should be extended at least the same protections, I guess. Even if it's just to make the whale and dolphin thing seem less ridiculous.

Why don't we just say "you can't kill or intentionally harm any sentient beings"? That seems like the least Yamatai would do.

Then again we're just talking concepts here, not specifically Yamatai. Points are still helpful though.
 
Hi.

Someone asked me to donate my 2c and specifically asked me to talk about SILO, a concept of mine that never took off.

First off, the Star Wars thing.

I will talk a little (I lied) about the design of each type of droid we see in the movies, and how these may be deliberate design choices by their creators.

The robots in Star Wars are clearly not designed to emulate human beings beyond a vaguely mechanical level at best. They have no detailed features, and can convey little emotion without speaking.

The Protocol droids (such as C3PO) are the most human-like robots we see in the movies, and even then only one gets any sort of dialogue apart from C3PO as a throw-away character at the very start of the first prequel movie, so it's hard to say if they all talk like C3PO or if he's just a special case. But if we look at repeatable evidence, all Protocol droids seem to share the same marginally humanoid shape without presenting any details.

This could be, by design, a neutral appearance in order to make conversation between different species easier. It does not immediately indicate that humans are building Protocol droids in their own image as many species in Star Wars share the same basic frame of two legs, two arms, one head.

These droids are slow, stiff, and while somewhat dextrous, are not expected to perform any sort of fine work. Their appearance seems only to lend to their conversation skills.

It seems natural that a droid like this would have some sort of self-preservation programmed into it, it's expensive, vulnerable, and distinctly necessary for its linguistic skills. We see this in quite a few parts of the original movies. Notice however that C3PO makes no attempt to flee when he learns his memory is going to be wiped, only showing apprehension.

It's hard to say if he treasures those memories, or if the wipe is merely an inconvenience for him. Either way his self-preservation does not kick in and he does not attempt to flee, no matter how futile such an attempt would likely be due to his inelegant chassis.


Meanwhile we look at other droids with vaguely human shapes and it seems they have been deliberately designed not to emulate living creatures. The Battle Droids and Super-battle Droids of the Separatists have human-like shapes, but no features or have other very prominent inhuman-like appearances. I'm not even sure the Battle Droids need those two spots that resemble eyes on their heads to see or if they're merely an aesthetic choice.

Their basic shape could simply have been chosen because the droids are expected to operate inside human environments with human usable weapons. So a droid must be able to open a door, operate a trigger, and be able to fit anywhere and do many of the same things a human would be expected to.

But for their shape the battle droids have little intellect, and in fact seem to get stupider as the prequel movies go on, having higher pitched voices and even less competence to go around as it continues. At least in The Phantom Menace they killed a few of the Naboo soldiers, who were armed only with pistols. Oh, and quite a few Gungans.

Perhaps this was a mixture of deliberate dehumanization, and worsening manufacturing standards as the war progresses. After all, if you were sending hundreds of battle droids to their deaths you certainly wouldn't want your commanders to feel guilt or remorse, particularly if your preferred use for them appears to be 'Human' Wave tactics. Meanwhile, I'm pretty sure there's been more than one storyline in the expanded universe where Clones and their commanders have suffered PTSD from the number of casualties they've seen.

The biggest threats offered by the Separatists as far as human-sized robots goes are the Droidica's (hope I'm spelling that right), which aren't actually based on humans at all but a distinctly alien species. These droids do not talk, convey no emotion, and appear to be only designed as rolling fire support for droid troops. I've never even heard one make a sound when they're cut down. It's hard to argue how intelligent these droids are, but they at least demonstrate more accuracy than the average droid. Either way, they do not vocalize what they're thinking.

Some could argue for General Grevious's bodyguards (I forget their names), but it's hard to tell if those are actual droids and not just cyborgs like Grevious himself. Either way, apart from cloaks they too share little in the way of human appearance.


So, the roughly human-shaped droids of Star Wars don't stack up to much, what about the utility robots?

Well, R2-D2 immediately comes to mind. Useful, intelligent, competent. This little astromech is everything a battle droid is not, and in a conveniently non-threatening inhuman-shaped platform. The poor little thing can't even speak but for warbles and beeps incomprehensible to humans.

It's hard to argue that these robots are strictly utilitarian in design, as they're rarely depicted as fast, or able to work anywhere where a human could not. Their range of tools and compartments could be incorporated into a human-shaped package almost as easily. Most prominently we see them in action either being damage control for a spaceship, being deposited on the exterior via a small lift, or as copilots for human fighter pilots.

It seems the work of these droids is to be capable of complex tasks, while not threatening human maintenance workers. No one wants to lose their job to a machine. Even the Empire, with all their resources, doesn't use astromechs in their disposable TIE fighters compared to the Alliances more capable, but far, far more expensive X-Wing's.

In some sections of the Expanded Universe it has been hinted that each X-Wing has its own intelligent computer built in, although these are wiped after every mission to maintain operational standards (R2-D2 and Luke Skywalkers X-Wing is an exception to this, although it's stated that because of their long-time partnership the X-Wing can now only function with R2-D2 in the back seat).

Other droids, such as the medical droids or other utility droids have little, at almost no human features at all, and seem much more limited in capability to R2-D2. These more specialized droids seem to share little of R2-D2's personality or humor.

The medical droids that speak to Luke as he's recovering from wounds on Hoth and after losing his hand do not seem to present their names, nor seem interested in his name. Only calling him "Sir" when addressing him. Their only vaguely human shaped torso and head seem more designed to emulate a doctor with a facemask to comfort patients than for operational efficiency. The droids that operated on Darth Vader as he was placed into his biosuit had no such niceties in their designs.


So, what are we left with?

Well, it seems obvious in the Star Wars universe that droids are only designed to look like humans for the humans convenience or operational concerns. All others are deliberately dehumanized or only given enough intelligence to function at their jobs.

This could indicate that galactic society does not believe droids should be treated as living life, and deliberately seeks to make sure they give as little appearance of sentience as possible to comfort itself. Obviously it's hard to prove this just from the movies alone, if someone has any insights from the Expanded Universe, you let me know.

As for C3-PO and R2-D2, again we don't know if C3-PO is a special case or if it might simply be programmed mannerisms to assist him in his job of providing communication between species. R2-D2 as well, while seeming to be intelligent, has possibly been deliberately designed so he can express little vivid emotion to others.

In conclusion, droids in Star Wars may or may not be sentient, but are probably designed strictly against such a possibility. If some of them are sentient then they are designed in such a way to never be mistaken for human life.

This is not man building robots in his own image for the purpose of creating new life, but man building robots only because he needs tools and deliberately guarding himself from the possibility and thought of those tools having feelings.




I think that's enough for one post. Next time I may discuss SILO and how this topic might relate to SARP if any of you haven't been scared away by the walls of text here.
 
There we have SW disscussed, I pretty much agree with Jimmy. Just add there that droids have their memories wiped very often for a reason. And that there are more specialised droid in the setting, like assassin droids or separatist's 'commando' droids. Which are still just droids, just more capable at what they do.

Generally droids in SW are expendable. They are just tool, only reason you would want to take care of them is because they are expensive. It is same as that you don't want your chainsaw snap, except in this case, your chainsaw can talk back to you and calls you Sir. In that case would it be easy to make start to like your droid and stop wiping its memory? Well I think so, but the gets us elsewhere again.

No Wes I have a question, how exactly do you want this to tie into SARP. Are you curisou if robots should have more rights then they do? Right to not be destroyer or damaged deliberately for example? Stuff like that?
 
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