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OOC Eucharis Discussion
- Thread starter Wes
- Start date
Sean_ODuibher
Inactive Member
It was my impression from previous descriptions and other sources that liquid coolant systems were pretty common in Star Army ships. I was not imagining them running across the ship, but rather tied to specific subsystems and components.
And to Uso, converting heat into electricity is exactly what thermocouples and thermogenerators do; even radioisotope thermoelectric generators, which are mentioned not infrequently in this setting, rely on the Seebeck effect to do just that. Granted current systems are relatively inefficient, but unless I am grossly misunderstanding the process, I fail to see how a closed system with heat as the input can output not only electricity but more heat than was input.
Really, this isn't the place to argue the specifics of power generation; my point was merely that the current system of heat absorbtion and power generation units are not incompatible with the existance of a liquid coolant system.
And to Uso, converting heat into electricity is exactly what thermocouples and thermogenerators do; even radioisotope thermoelectric generators, which are mentioned not infrequently in this setting, rely on the Seebeck effect to do just that. Granted current systems are relatively inefficient, but unless I am grossly misunderstanding the process, I fail to see how a closed system with heat as the input can output not only electricity but more heat than was input.
Really, this isn't the place to argue the specifics of power generation; my point was merely that the current system of heat absorbtion and power generation units are not incompatible with the existance of a liquid coolant system.
Any place that has significant power consumption would generate heat and even other places would generate heat.
Even the cooling equipment in the galley, generate waste heat, and would affect the ship temp as well as the ovens and stoves.
And the new turrets that were recently added use power and their control systems would probably need cooling.
Just my two cents worth.
- Main Cannon (which you already mentioned.
- Computer room. the MEGAMI would have significant power requirments.
- Forcefield generators would be another likely candidate, and the power armor bay has ones to keep the atmospher in while the PA's go through as well as the CFS itself.
- Fabrication area
Even the cooling equipment in the galley, generate waste heat, and would affect the ship temp as well as the ovens and stoves.
And the new turrets that were recently added use power and their control systems would probably need cooling.
Just my two cents worth.
Zack
Inactive Member
Actually, Sean_ODuibher, they convert a heat gradient to electricity, not heat itself.
http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/rocket3au.html
and perhaps more usefully for most:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoelectric_effect
So basically any ship is going to have to get rid of waste heat somehow because you can't bring down a ship's temperature by converting the heat to electricity. If you don't get rid of the waste heat a ship will just increase in temperature until everything inside cooks.
I also doubt the main cannon would produce much heat. It is an aether shock array so all it is really doing is firing a scalar pulse which in itself isn't going to be putting out as much energy as most of the other weapon systems. Almost all of the actual energy discharge will occur away from the ship as the scalar pulse travels through space.
http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/rocket3au.html
and perhaps more usefully for most:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoelectric_effect
So basically any ship is going to have to get rid of waste heat somehow because you can't bring down a ship's temperature by converting the heat to electricity. If you don't get rid of the waste heat a ship will just increase in temperature until everything inside cooks.
I also doubt the main cannon would produce much heat. It is an aether shock array so all it is really doing is firing a scalar pulse which in itself isn't going to be putting out as much energy as most of the other weapon systems. Almost all of the actual energy discharge will occur away from the ship as the scalar pulse travels through space.
Sean_ODuibher
Inactive Member
Fair enough, Uso. I still don't see why we have to rule out the use of a Peltier-Seebeck effect device to create power and move the heat to a radiator; and to be honest, the explanations of why the thermoelectric effect produces more heat than is input are still beyond me, as I am not a physics buff, and the equations explaining why are rather outside my area of study. Again, though, this really isn't the place to discuss a subsystem of a whole class of ships. So I think for the purposes of the Eucharis we can say the description of the heat absorption/power generation system is incomplete, rather than incorrect; and all that aside, there would still be a need for semi-common liquid coolant systems throughout the ship.
Zack
Inactive Member
That was my original point, that coolant or some form of heat transfer medium is going to have to be used to move heat around. If not from components to a radiator, then from components to the heat absorber device at least.
Though if you want the description on the wiki to be correct without having to change it you can count the heat absorber device as a mechanism to improve efficiency. There are plenty of machines IRL that use that kind of mechanism to get back a little wasted electricity here and there.
Though if you want the description on the wiki to be correct without having to change it you can count the heat absorber device as a mechanism to improve efficiency. There are plenty of machines IRL that use that kind of mechanism to get back a little wasted electricity here and there.
In the Plumeria-class gunship, heat is removed from equipment by scalar-based cooling fields that transfer heat energy from the equipment to a converter where it is used to supply power. No other cooling systems are necessary for that equipment. The ship writeup does, however, mention liquid cooling systems in the engineering space. I'm thinking that we could use liquid cooling systems along all the major power conduits, since huge amounts of power are being transferred through the ship.
I'll update the page to clarify things soon.
I'll update the page to clarify things soon.
Zack
Inactive Member
That would mean the ship's cooling systems wouldn't work in anti-gravity.
It would also mean that the system has no way of removing heat from the ship to cool it. This means it would eventually cook itself from the inside out as heat builds up and things just get hotter and hotted. Regardless of how you do it, you can't lower the temperature by converting heat to electricity.
For that matter, I'd think the HSCS would be a great heat-sink. Lots of liquid to absorb heat with and it travels all over the ship so there is plenty of surface area to dissipate that heat.
It would also mean that the system has no way of removing heat from the ship to cool it. This means it would eventually cook itself from the inside out as heat builds up and things just get hotter and hotted. Regardless of how you do it, you can't lower the temperature by converting heat to electricity.
For that matter, I'd think the HSCS would be a great heat-sink. Lots of liquid to absorb heat with and it travels all over the ship so there is plenty of surface area to dissipate that heat.
They work fine in normal or zero gravity.
No, the heat is converted to power, and we expend power constantly on the combined field system.
I'd appreciate it if you'd not argue tech with me in my plot's OOC thread.
This would also let us do that cliched but awesome thing where we, alone, barely outrun the huge explosion.
Sean_ODuibher
Inactive Member
Since we cleared up the nature of coolant systems, should I auto Blueberry's response to Junko? I left it open ended in case there were any changes or specifications that needed to be made beyond the descriptions given already. I can continue along just fine with it, but I wanted to leave room for more input.
Sean_ODuibher
Inactive Member
My main concern was to make sure there was room for input, in case there was more specific information on the damage. Otherwise, just confirming a shift in powerloads for the shields and the heat absorption unit would make sense. Basically, I'm fully prepared to keep running with things as Gallant explained it: the system is overloading and overheating and has caused a failure in a power flow regulation device that apparently cannot be fixed entirely without service in dry dock. Where I'm going with this is trying to find particular points to do temporary repair work to get us through the rest of the battle. If that's still the plan, then I can basically run on my own from here, with reports back in and the like; otherwise, have Blueberry update things and direct Junko towards whatever the issue is now.
edit: By the way, the request for a sitrep, being addressed to Engineering, would be have to be answered by Blueberry as well; she has the Mainspace, and so would handle that, unless you want to forward the request to Junko.
edit: By the way, the request for a sitrep, being addressed to Engineering, would be have to be answered by Blueberry as well; she has the Mainspace, and so would handle that, unless you want to forward the request to Junko.
Ehem.
Since I clearly need a schedule and it is UNFAIR AS ALL HELL keeping you ladies and gentlemen waiting on little old me, I henceforth declare the hour of 1800, Central Standard, to be the time whereupon I will most certainly take the time out of my day to check these forums and, if necessary, write a post.
I am also writing a post at this very instant.
THE WAIT
IT IS ENDING?
Since I clearly need a schedule and it is UNFAIR AS ALL HELL keeping you ladies and gentlemen waiting on little old me, I henceforth declare the hour of 1800, Central Standard, to be the time whereupon I will most certainly take the time out of my day to check these forums and, if necessary, write a post.
I am also writing a post at this very instant.
THE WAIT
IT IS ENDING?
Konoka Miyazawa
Inactive Member
Hi everyone. I'm back, and I'm here to tell you I haven't dropped off the face of the earth. The reasons I haven't posted lately involve moving, dropping a computer down a flight of stairs, and a very taxing double work week.
Excuse my absence.
I would have posted sooner, but it's not coming to me as to how to get Konoka re-involved in the plot. Should she just randomly appear worrried and tripping through the medbay door? 'cause that leaves me to explain where she's been. I want to be involved in the plot again, but I'm not sure where to put Konoka. Any ideas? After all, this ship's reaaalllly gonna need a medic if this plot goes on much longer.
Again, I'm EXTREMELY sorry for my disappearing act.
Excuse my absence.
I would have posted sooner, but it's not coming to me as to how to get Konoka re-involved in the plot. Should she just randomly appear worrried and tripping through the medbay door? 'cause that leaves me to explain where she's been. I want to be involved in the plot again, but I'm not sure where to put Konoka. Any ideas? After all, this ship's reaaalllly gonna need a medic if this plot goes on much longer.
Again, I'm EXTREMELY sorry for my disappearing act.
Hi Konoka,
Actually not a lot game time has transpired, so you could say that she's been busy finishing the backups for the NPC and PC's that hadn't already done so. That way they are protected, and it gives you something to explain what she has been doing.
Brian
Actually not a lot game time has transpired, so you could say that she's been busy finishing the backups for the NPC and PC's that hadn't already done so. That way they are protected, and it gives you something to explain what she has been doing.
Brian
