Expanding the Setting Is Not Just Tech Articles

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ArsenicJohn

#41
Fair enough, but in response to @FrostJaeger burying our heads in the sand and insisting everything is fine won't make the issues go away.

What "underlying problems" are you referring to, @ArsenicJohn? As far as I know, the NTSE - though a bit slow, but that's hardly grounds for complaining - has been functioning normally these past few months.
 

FrostJaeger

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#42
Raz seemed a little salty, I thought we were having a nice convo here, then I hit ‘show ignored posts’

Holy crap, huge mistake.
Stop making personal attacks against me, @Zack.

USO has a bunch of cool, detailed, articles that aren’t about starships but not everyone enjoys that and we should also cater to players who are just here because they want to make cool starships.
That's what corporations are for, @Zack.

Fixing the problems with the NTSE would be a great place to start since it seems like the healthier the NTSE is the better the site is as a whole.
What issues are you referring to, @Zack?

The goal should be making it easier to get approval for something on the first try by removing guess work, which will free up approval mods time and energy.
There, in my opinion, isn't any guess work to begin with, @Zack - not when one's submissions follow all of the applicable rules.

Fair enough, but in response to @FrostJaeger burying our heads in the sand and insisting everything is fine won't make the issues go away.
Again, @ArsenicJohn: what specific issues are you referring to?
 
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FrostJaeger

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#44
Moderation is not to be discussed in a public venue. If you have such concerns, you use the forum Conversation system to adress them.

Thank you.

Fred, Star Army Staff
My apologies, @Fred, for forgetting about that; I've removed, the, uh, "off-topic" portions of my previous post. :oops:
 
A

ArsenicJohn

#45
I would be glad to tell you @FrostJaeger, but in the interest of keeping the thread on topic, not here. If you want to start a thread dedicated to discussing the NTSE, I could tell you there.

As for the topic, I think we have some good ideas going. We seem to mostly all agree there should be more culture articles and that forcing people to make one article when they make another is a bad idea. As Zack said "Let’s give incentives to players to do what they already like doing rather than trying to punish players for not doing something they aren’t all that excited about. "
 
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FrostJaeger

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#46
I would be glad to tell you @FrostJaeger, but in the interest of keeping the thread on topic, not here. If you want to start a thread dedicated to discussing the NTSE, I could tell you there.
Done.

As for the topic, I think we have some good ideas going. We seem to mostly all agree there should be more culture articles and that forcing people to make one article when they make another is a bad idea. As Zack said "Let’s give incentives to players to do what they already like doing rather than trying to punish players for not doing something they aren’t all that excited about. "
As I've said multiple times now, @ArsenicJohn, that is why corporations exist: to provide outlets for those who primarily want to make technology articles instead of cultural ones - in fact, I explicitly stated here that independent corporations would not be affected by this.

I also said here that the two submissions would not have to be submitted at the same time - and let me ask you a couple of things:

Firstly, if a Faction Manager isn't interested in fleshing out all aspects of their faction - as in, if they aren't interested in making their faction the very best it can be in terms of culture and technology - then why are they even a Faction Manager in the first place?

Secondly, like I asked @Arieg, which of the following do you think is "[better] for players and the GMs doing the roleplay[ing]"?
  • Five weapon articles
  • An article on a popular "holovision" series
  • An article on fashion
  • An article on cuisine
  • An article on a national sport
  • An article on a national holiday
Or:
  • Ten weapon articles
 

Syaoran

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#47
@FrostJaeger you're kind of just not litening to people at this point. Everyone has agreed that -forcing- people to do culture is not the answer, but rather incentivizing culture articles is the answer. Even if you forced people to do it, that would just cause low quality articles to be made. It doesn't matter whether you're a corporation or a faction when it comes to the fact that some people are good at tech, some people are good at culture. Some people don't like culture articles some people do like culture articles.

Your insistence on ignoring such a large concensus leads me to ask @FrostJaeger, Why? Do you specifically want to -force- the creation of more culture articles by locking/limiting/restricting tech articles? And why do you continue to make jabs at corporate factions?
 

FrostJaeger

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#48
@FrostJaeger you're kind of just not litening to people at this point. Everyone has agreed that -forcing- people to do culture is not the answer, but rather incentivizing culture articles is the answer.
From what I've seen during my two (going on three) years in this community when it comes to submissions people won't do things unless it's mandatory - and even then, some of them will kick and scream when others point these mandatory things out to them.

Even if you forced people to do it, that would just cause low quality articles to be made.
That - and the consequences associated with it - is on them, then.

It doesn't matter whether you're a corporation or a faction when it comes to the fact that some people are good at tech, some people are good at culture. Some people don't like culture articles some people do like culture articles.
That's why factions - unlike corporations - consist of more than one person, @Syaoran. If you're an FM and you don't like doing cultural articles, then ask one of your Co-FMs/GMs/players/etc. to do them for you.

Your insistence on ignoring such a large concensus...
Yourself, Arieg, ArsenicJohn, and CadetNewb isn't what I'd call a "large concensus[sic]," @Syaoran.

...leads me to ask @FrostJaeger, Why? Do you specifically want to -force- the creation of more culture articles by locking/limiting/restricting tech articles?
I didn't want to "force" anything, @Syaoran - I merely wanted for FMs to focus on something besides technological and/or numerical dick-measuring contests.

And why do you continue to make jabs at corporate factions?
I make jabs at them, @Syaoran, because of the fact that most of the time they end up being little more than glorified static personal display pieces that no one uses - which this section of this article explicitly says not to do. Regardless, however, I won't press the subject any further - because @raz was right: here on Star Army, some Faction Managers are adverse to improving their factions.
 
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Syaoran

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#49
They're adverse to doing what -you- consider improving their factions. They themselves consider tech articles improving their faction. That's on them, not on us or to decide. Also if you check the likes on the post, it's more than just the handful of people listed. But even without that, the mods haven't made it mandatory either, so obviously as a whole they probably don't think it's that good of an idea either. Also most significant cooperation are actually more than one person as well. There was a time where origin was -many- people. Also, I don't know of a single corporate faction that was just a personal display piece. They might not have been managed in the best or most fair ways, but corporate factions tend to get a significant amount of RP. However you've been here only for 2 almost three years, so you weren't actually around for most of the corporate faction RP which has recently died out due to to a number of reasons.

All in all, at the end of the day SARP is for entertainment, of course there needs to be rules to keep things in order, but no matter how much it might look like it'll help, when you put strong restrictions on creation that aren't objective, it'll hurt a place that is known for creative freedom. Every faction and every FM is different, the amount of 'culture' articles that are good for them is different. The amount of people they can get is different as well. It's not about "Not wanting to improve their faction" It's about people wanting to do what they -enjoy-. If they wanted to do something mandatory in order to get back to what they wanted to do, they'd work more at their jobs.

The reason why the NTSE guidelines say to make sure an article isn't just repeat tech and is actually something the setting could use is to avoid most of the problems brought up here about how too many tech articles creates some issues.

I get that you want to improve the site and so on. So does everyone. But when you're dealing with a system of -people- you have to account for them as people not as robots or mindless drones, especially not when you take into account that SARP is a luxury and not mandatory. Doesn't matter if something is better in theory if it causes large groups of people to stop engaging in parts of the site. That's something you really need to learn Frost, how to deal with -people-. You lost that somewhere along the way and you've stopped being considerate to everyone you don't like, and it's made things difficult for you and brought no benefits, so I'm not sure why you still do it.
 

Fred

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#50
during my two (going on three) years
has it really been that long?

consequences associated with it
*ominous thunder sound effect*

more than one person
I am more than one person. I am Legion.

a "large concensus[sic],"
I am very large.

...is with me, yes.

dick-measuring contests
Like I said, mine is the largest. Well, maybe second largest.

Uppercuts (Down + Strong Punch) are obviously the stronger way to go. Wamashigiri are my personal favorites.

you have to account for them as people not as robots or mindless drones
What? When did this happen???

some Faction Managers are adverse to improving their factions.
...I think they're more adverse on one particular person of no particular standing or authority lording over them when he is no less flawed than they are. They would rather he just stick to his stuff; and boy, does he have a lot of stuff to do.

Annnnd.

If I want you to take anything out of this post of mine, it's the following:
I told you. One quote, maybe two, in a post... maximum. Permissibly if the post you answer to is several posts away, far more justifiably when it is on a different webpage. Not when it's the post right above the one you are writing.

Consider this a form of forum etiquette that I want you to adhere to, otherwise you come across as rude and disrespectful. Please adhere to it, as sempai is watching.
 
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Wes

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#51
The point of this thread, which I want to reiterate, is that adding stuff to the setting is nice but adding stories to the setting, and opportunities for stories, is better. So when we make wiki articles, we should try to make them in a way that gives fuel to GMs.
 

Arieg

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#52
The point of this thread, which I want to reiterate, is that adding stuff to the setting is nice but adding stories to the setting, and opportunities for stories, is better. So when we make wiki articles, we should try to make them in a way that gives fuel to GMs.
The fact my weapon systems are ending up in the hands of rebels on Asura isn't fuel for GMs?