How does offensive telepathy work in the SARP?

[Zakalwe]

I have a few questions about what telepathy can do to others in the hands of a powerful telepath.

1, Since telepathy in its most basic forms is the transfer of information, your thoughts into their mind, could you not send visual style information instead? For example could you send what you are actually seeing (not really offensive), or send your minds eye? By this I mean whatever image you are imagining at that moment.

Another argument for this is that not all people 'think' in words, some think in images. I have a friend who does that for example In that situation thought protection would be in images, and as such sending images should be possible. Does this follow?

2, In my mind I can scream as well as create thoughts. Is it possible, as an attack, to send a telepathic scream of incredible magnitude? This would most likely cause a distraction, possibly great psychological pain. Following on from this could you send your thoughts but at a huge magnitude, and by doing so make it incredibly hard to think?

3, If you can send thoughts into someone else's brain, could it not be possible (for a powerful enough telepathic), to send commands as well? I command my arm to move, and my fingers to type, much in the same way as I think. Since what telepathy is allowing you to do is send these signals over a greater distance, why should you be able to send your thoughts and not your commands for movement? I would suggest that if this is possible it is only possible in a limited form and only for the most powerful of telepaths.

 

[Fred]

Zakalwe, wasn't there a Psionic Warfare question thread made precisely to handle that sort of topic? I honestly think you should bring that discussion there because firstly, it covers your questions and bit and also, I wouldn't mind having those points elaborated myself.

 

[Zakalwe]

I considered it, but this is a little more specific, and I thought that it would be better to have something that answered the question in a rather short variety, and specific questions, rather than adding on to an already long and complicated argument in the Psionic Warfare thread.

And under that argument the Psionic Warfare thread should have been started under the Psionics thread I started shortly after joining the site.

 

[Fred]

Ah, well, I see.

One concern I had in the other thread that can be braoched here was that I didn't understand why the forms psionic attacks like forceful thought-reading could be directed while the brute force psionics couldn't.

 

[Zakalwe]

This question hasn't been answered in over a week ... I could really do with this, especially given some developments in the Valiant.

 

[Wes]

Re: Offensive Telepathy

I have a few questions about what telepathy can do to others in the hands of a powerful telepath.

1, Since telepathy in its most basic forms is the transfer of information, your thoughts into their mind, could you not send visual style information instead? For example could you send what you are actually seeing (not really offensive), or send your minds eye? By this I mean whatever image you are imagining at that moment.

Another argument for this is that not all people 'think' in words, some think in images. I have a friend who does that for example In that situation thought protection would be in images, and as such sending images should be possible. Does this follow?

Yes, you can do that.

2, In my mind I can scream as well as create thoughts. Is it possible, as an attack, to send a telepathic scream of incredible magnitude? This would most likely cause a distraction, possibly great psychological pain. Following on from this could you send your thoughts but at a huge magnitude, and by doing so make it incredibly hard to think?

Yes, but it wouldn't be any more dngerous than a loud shrieking toddler (you know, the kind that show up in churches, suprmarkets, and the Department of Motor Vehicles).

3, If you can send thoughts into someone else's brain, could it not be possible (for a powerful enough telepathic), to send commands as well? I command my arm to move, and my fingers to type, much in the same way as I think. Since what telepathy is allowing you to do is send these signals over a greater distance, why should you be able to send your thoughts and not your commands for movement? I would suggest that if this is possible it is only possible in a limited form and only for the most powerful of telepaths.

In the SARP you cannot send thoughts into someone's brain. You can only broadcast them out like a radio. Whether or not people will tune in is up to them.

 

[Zakalwe]

Thank you.

However the pure evil of a screaming toddler should not be underestimated ... imagine that going around and around your head.

 

[Xerena]

What if you used a Psionic Amplification Array as a "megaphone" while screaming - wouldn't it do some psychological equivalent of rendering a target temporarily, or permanently, deaf or bursting its eardrums? And what about a psionic equivalent of the "opera singer using her voice to shatter a wine glass by resonance" trick?

As I understand the device, the Psionic Amplification Array should allow you to direct, as well as amplify, a psionic attack, just lie a parabolic reflector or radio dish or other type of directional antenna (and if one can make a pocket ADN, one should be able to make a pocket PAA as well)? For that matter, could a psion, with proper training, either tune their psionics to onlly interact with a target mind or to only travel in a specific diredtion (much like a radar beam or a maser, rather than a broadcast antenna), or at least choose how far their psionic attack will travel?

Lastly, could two or more psions (or an arbitrarily large number of psions) combine their "psi waves" to create interference patterns, or crate a net waveform that has a very high amplitude at one particular point and very low ampllitude elsewhere (they could coordinate doing this by doing a Fourier transform of the desired waveform and each transmit one of the appropriate component frequencies, if the radio analogy still applies)? If allowed, Nekos, having digital minds, would probably be especially adept at this type of thing.

 

[Fred]

The thing is, nekos aren't anymore. The NH-17T and NH-22M are pretty much phased out - and that excludes the older models whom had telepathy too.

I'm also uncertain of how the S17 Seraph are going to be used seeing the new ESP rules, but...

Look, there is no psionic warfare anymore. We're trying not to do that. We explained why. That's why we can't just nod along with your enthusiastic suggestions about promoting that sort of stuff and detailing it. Non-telepathy (plain messages) psionics is pretty much only at the disposal and even the other permitted uses are frowned upon. *shrugs*

I just say it's not feasible anymore from a gameplay balance issue for members... even though I originally really liked the concept of mind over brawns and stuff. <s>(even the powerful NH-27 was vulnerable to a psionically-inclined NH-22M)</s>

Wes's edit: The NH-27 is based on the NH-22M and is pretty much superior in every way.

 

[Xerena]

Re: Offensive Telepathy

I have a few questions about what telepathy can do to others in the hands of a powerful telepath.

1, Since telepathy in its most basic forms is the transfer of information, your thoughts into their mind, could you not send visual style information instead? For example could you send what you are actually seeing (not really offensive), or send your minds eye? By this I mean whatever image you are imagining at that moment.

Another argument for this is that not all people 'think' in words, some think in images. I have a friend who does that for example In that situation thought protection would be in images, and as such sending images should be possible. Does this follow?

Yes, you can do that.

2, In my mind I can scream as well as create thoughts. Is it possible, as an attack, to send a telepathic scream of incredible magnitude? This would most likely cause a distraction, possibly great psychological pain. Following on from this could you send your thoughts but at a huge magnitude, and by doing so make it incredibly hard to think?

Yes, but it wouldn't be any more dngerous than a loud shrieking toddler (you know, the kind that show up in churches, suprmarkets, and the Department of Motor Vehicles).

So, could you "shout" an image of blinding light (like, looking directly into the sun or a nuclear explosion, and projecting that with all your strength)? Or a horrible stench? Or really bad itch (like poison ivy on every square inch of your skin)? Or a nauseating taste? Or some other unpleaasant sensory experience?

What about fear or other emotions (in particular, one's own fear, in self-defense)?

 

[Doshii Jun]

... I'm glad Yukari's going to keep her Type 29 Communicator on her at all times. Portable PSC to win.

I'd wager that previous Neko models could do this much better than current ones. Right now, the information might not transfer the way you're asking for. Also keep in mind a Neko and Yamataian have computerized brains that can, in essence, just take this information quickly and store it, doing minimal harm. Like a heuristic command they build on their own.

I wonder though ... Wes, can a Neko/Yamataian increase or decrease their broadcasting range and strength? Or is it just one mode all the time?

 

[Fred]

I wonder though ... Wes, can a Neko/Yamataian increase or decrease their broadcasting range and strength? Or is it just one mode all the time?

For balance reason, I personally don't think it should. You'd end up with every character having variations on the way their telepathic ability would function depending on skill for it's use.

And face it, a few people is going to want to be good at their telepathy sooner or later. They're going to push the limit, set a precedent, and everyone will be able to reach it in the future.

Like anti-gravity control, I'd keep this fixed in term of performance.

 

[Doshii Jun]

Hmmm ... *nods* That makes sense. I'll go with that, if that's the case.

 

[Toshiro]

Does the Type 29 Communicator act as a booster for friendly psionic signals, or does it extend the range of a Yamataian user past 1 km?

 

[Doshii Jun]

From what Wes told me, it doesn't act as a booster -- it "sends and receives" and has nothing to do with increasing the power of a person's telepathy. I took that to mean that text and voice messages can be converted to a "telepathic" frequency, but it can't make a person's telepathy work any better.

 

[Xerena]

Seeing as how "keeping antigravity control fixed" does not appear to mean that "a Yamataian in 0g can go at 70mph or at 0mph but not at any speed in between", it seems reasonable that a Yamataian, with a maximum telepathic range of 1km, could transmit at 25% power (inverse-square law for EM) to limit the transmission to 500m, or why this would take any more skill than it takes to whisper instead of shouting or speaking at normal volume. Am I missing something?

Is it just a game balance issue and I should stop beating a dead horse already?

 

[Wes]

I don't see why a neko couldn't put out a weak signal.

 

[Doshii Jun]

Hmmm ... so every Neko and Yamataian has a fixed maximum output, but not a fixed minimum? Lady Xerena's analogy about zero-g speed does make sense here.

Maybe combine what Fred and Xerena's saying here -- you can't go beyond max output, but you can have variable output. It would eliminate the buzzing other telepaths are supposed to hear and notice everytime a telepath transmits:

Kotori: "Hey Yukari, come over here!"
Every other telepath in room: "Gah -- hey, stop send thoughts out, whoever's doing it!"
Kotori: "I'm the commander, I do what I want bitch!"

 

[Yangfan]

I would describe it as a "Send-Subscribe" model.

The sender can selectly send messages to certain other telepaths within range. Others can't listen in even if they wanted to.

The message is only received if the receiver explicitly agreed to recieve signals from the sender. She would make this decision the first time the sender attempts to contact her. In other words, she subscribes to the sender's messages. Of course, the receiver can always decide to block the sender later. It's like a chat room, only you start with subscriptions to no one instead of everyone.

In a combat situation, I'm guessing the Nekos would all be tuned in to their CO. They might block out an especially "chatty" teammate, however. (This obviously negatively impacts that teammate's combat abilities.)

 

[Xerena]

The sender can selectly send messages to certain other telepaths within range. Others can't listen in even if they wanted to.

I thought everyone had been saying the only way to achieve that was by encrypting the message. Other telepaths not intended to hear the message won't be able to lissten in to the cintents of the message, but anyone paying attention would still know that a message was being sent (and if a MEGAMI, for instance, were in range, she could probably defeat any encryption being used in a split second and listen in anyway).

The message is only received if the receiver explicitly agreed to recieve signals from the sender. She would make this decision the first time the sender attempts to contact her. In other words, she subscribes to the sender's messages. Of course, the receiver can always decide to block the sender later. It's like a chat room, only you start with subscriptions to no one instead of everyone.

How, then, do the Mishhu expect their psionic attacks, or the Elysians expect the psionic abilities of their S17 Seraphs, to accomplish anything? I'm assuming Neko brains don't run unpatched copies of Microsoft Windows.