M6 Daisy

[Aendri]

I was just looking at it's page while I was working on some stuff for FR, and noticed it doesn't have any dedicated propulsion system section. All I saw looking through the systems was the inertial redirection system, which it specifically says is meant to supplement movement and provide some scalar protection. So what I was wondering is are there any other systems for propulsion, seeing as it is a atmospheric armor, not just ground. And if so, what are they, so I can link them in.

 

[Wes]

There's a wing pack for it I thought. It's primarily a ground unit, though, though it can float like a Neko can.

 

[Nashoba]

The Daisy 6M does have propulsion beyond the inertia. From the page

Ke-M6-R2901 Inertia Redirection System
Ke-M6-P2901 Heavy Fusion Thruster Pack (attachable)
Ke-M6-R2902 Auxiliary Gravimetric Engine (located in bottom, feeds through legs)

 

[Aendri]

The thruster pack is only for the Spacy edition, which means a standard version wouldn't have it. And the Gravimetric engines have no link to the system, nor are they actively described elsewhere in the article, which means that anyone trying to discover the capabilities of the Daisy is out of luck. Even plugging in the name (Ke-M6-R2902 Auxiliary Gravimetric Engine) in the search function on the wiki only pulls up the Daisy article and the Sarah.

 

[Doshii Jun]

When I designed the Daisy, I designed it to have the thruster pack for atmospheric missions, not spacy ones. It's supposed to have the thruster pack when it's on the ground.

The gravimetric engine has no link because it's meant to be a generic, ad-hoc system. I never listed capabilities for it because I didn't expect it to ever be there. Once Fred started looking around for a Spacy version, I created the 1B with that system tacked on to justify some use in space.

The capabilities for the system are the speed it can reach (0.1 c, I thought) and the fact that it goes through the legs.

 

[Aendri]

If the Thruster pack is indeed intended to be included in the standard kit for anything atmospheric, then the article needs to be edited anyway, since that's not what it says. It's listed as attachable, not standard. And the wording in the Spacy description implies that the thruster pack was discarded as an option for the other two versions.

 

[Doshii Jun]

It's listed as attachable because it is: You can detach the thing once you land or don't want it anymore, as it's heavy. I edited the Spacy description to hopefully make it more clear.

Is this the other line that you're hanging on?

Note: The thruster pack is often discarded after a drop is made, in an attempt to lighten the armor and narrow its profile. Packs are attuned to each armor before deployment, allowing a pilot to leave its pack behind without fear of another using it.

When I was designing the Daisy, I imagined it being a real ground armor, as it was used on Bowhordia. The pack isn't meant to be kept on the armor after a drop is made because it slows the armor down on foot and gives it the bigger profile. That's why a pilot can discard it, onto the ground, and come back to it later to clear the battlefield after completing a mission.

In the system listing, I again state it's attachable because it is.

For aerospace missions, the fusion pack's the primary mode of propulsion. That's why its speed is listed as going Mach 1.8. In space, if desired, the fusion pack can be used for propulsion, but it's not as fast as the gravimetrics.

 

[Aendri]

So, fusion pack is always included then? I'm just trying to clarify whether it's meant as standard, or optional.

 

[Doshii Jun]

In atmospheric conditions, it's considered part of the standard loadout. It isn't required, though.

 

[CadetNewb]

I don't want to add more to whatever work pile you have, but hearing this, you know I probably am going to end up doing so, so I'll cut to what I have to say.

If these functions were not stated in the Daisy's page, shouldn't it be added there now? It's a good opportunity to flesh it out more, since you have just explained these functions and its intent to us.

And about why I am here in the first place...is this thing aether powered? All it says is that it's capacitor system is a lot like the Sylph's, but without direct mention of an actual power source. It's been bugging me since I realized this, and well, this seemed a good place to bring it up.

 

[Aendri]

No, that's a good point to ask about. I'm pretty sure Daisies are fusion powered. And the reference to the capacitors isn't actually a power source thing, so that's not helpful here. I think Fred, Nyton, probably Dosh would know for sure.

 

[SSharp]

I moved this to the 'Your Questions Answered' forum since it doesn't have any submissions to review. If it does end up having an Article to review, put it in the NTSE.

Otherwise, keep to the appropriate forum. :|

 

[Fred]

(this post of mine better not get deleted, again. I don't write just to have my stuff deleted, even if I post out of whimsy)

No, that's a good point to ask about. I'm pretty sure Daisies are fusion powered. And the reference to the capacitors isn't actually a power source thing, so that's not helpful here. I think Fred, Nyton, probably Dosh would know for sure.

The Daisy was initially slated to be powered by a battery pack (like the M4-1 Sylph (back when it wasn't a M1 Lamia 'upgrade') and the Harpy) instead of the aether generator the power armors before them use. So, it's just a long-longevity battery pack - I guess doshii decided to call it 'capacitors'.

Do note that today I'm iffy over the space variant of the Daisy. I consider it largely unnecessary: nothing ever stopped the M6-1A from fighting in space if needed; it never needed the tweak to the plasma rifle as far as I can see and it already had an inertial propulsion system. If true space mobility (in fractions of c) were needed the fusion pack could just get replaced with a gravimetric/CDD one rather than going for a new variant.

Note that it's creation is apparently my fault. When I mentioned it, I think Doshii didn't agree with me (I've always seemed to have a better opinion of the M6 Daisy than Doshii ever had of it) and he went to make a variant in which he felt that the Daisy would be more credibly capable of competing on the 'space battle' front to deliver on 'what I wanted'. Or something. Hence the gravimetric engines on the legs, the second plasma rifle and stuff... whereas I already felt the 1A was already capable of doing all that stuff.

Well, this is Doshii's baby, so I guess he's entitled... though interpretation of it as a GM is my prerogative. Consequently, the Miharu's people ended up mostly using the M6-1A until very recently, when I needed a few to be equipable with a teleport module and have synthetic inserts to accommodate Kai/Asher.

Also, I apparently never thought of the fusion pack as something that was very heavy. Then again, ICly, the fusion pack was never really used to go faster than the inertial drive system would allow (100 kph). I also never really liked how the forearm weapons were apparently turreted - counter-intuitive in regards to evocative imagery; I generally prefer pointing and shooting. This may also be why drones are rarely useful in my plots - they often tend to get easily destroyed, cause little damage or be largely ineffective. Huh.

 

[Doshii Jun]

Sorry if my post deleting got under your skin, Fred. Cyber went and posted something I didn't feel was appropriate, so I went back and edited my post that used the word "sniffing," then killed the posts related to it.

Fred's right when he says I didn't agree with him about making the Daisy a space-capable armor. The Mindy, in my mind then and now, is vastly superior in all ways except armor durability. However, looking back with what I know now, I assume Fred was looking for something that would survive going through the Gate, which the Mindy would not (powered by aether generator).

Basically, the Mindy is badass in space, and I didn't want the Daisy to be constantly shown up because it was slow, poorly armed, etc.

I added the plasma rifle tweaks for a couple reasons:

1. The art didn't show a really long rifle, which the original plasma rifle is, so I wanted to make something shorter.

2. I wanted the plasma rifle to be a secondary option on the ground, but a primary option in space. The LASR is great for ground ops, but poor for spacy operations. To do what I wanted, I made the spacy version of the plasma rifle, and sort of nerfed the original, atmospheric plasma rifle.

I made the forearm weapons turreted for the same reason: I wanted them to be good on the ground, able to pop up and shoot at targets trying to flank a prone armor whose focus was forward. The imagery was, admittedly, secondary in my mind — I didn't want anyone to die using my armor.

As for the gravimetric engines in the legs/feet ... I don't know. I could've made a gravimetric engine pack, true. I think I was imagining that the gravimetric engines would help the armor, from space, get down to the ground, and it could still have the fusion pack on its back. That's a guess, though.

When it comes to power generation ... I actually have always thought it was an aether battery. I guess it could be fusion-powered, too; I never made the distinction.

What changes would you guys like me to make to the page?

 

[Fred]

While my tone was opinionated and critical, I'm glad that as a result I got to learn some of those design insights.

 

[Kai]

I had always assumed the Daisy was Fusion-powered, I didn't realize it had batteries. The more you know.

 

[Aendri]

And for the record, SSharp, this was put in the NTSE because it involved potentially editing already approved tech, and I thought that that would require a tech mods approval through the NTSE.

 

[Nashoba]

For the purposes of discussion, the question area would be the better place. After the discourse any significant changes should then be approved in the NTSE.

 

[SSharp]

And for the record, SSharp, this was put in the NTSE because it involved potentially editing already approved tech, and I thought that that would require a tech mods approval through the NTSE.

I am a Tech Mod.

 

[Aendri]

I understand that, I'm saying that I wasn't sure whether this would result in changes which would require approval, so I put it in there.