Abandoned Submission [NDC] Operators

Alright, round two!

My approach was this:

'Default' Human clones are now called Varia. Think of this like a product line, not a new species. Their genetics are carefully selected and they have a few small enhancements. Any human could receive these enhancements if they are a citizen of the NDC. The addition of 'Bigenders' is the only real exception to this, but even that is mostly possible (if very rare) for an unmodified human.

Varia can be further modified into a VariaNT, such as the Operator, to be better suited for a given role. VariaNTs are a genetic and technical modification that changes the Human into something else. At this time, the Operator is the only example - but this leaves a path open for the NDC to introduce others in the future, which I think can be cool for the faction. VariaNTs aren't rare.

Other articles have been updated to reflect this change. The 'Operator Creation Process' is now the 'Varia Creation Process', our Culture pages have had mentions of Operator changed to Varia, etc, etc.

These are the updated links:
(I'd like to change that first link to :cloning:varia, but the wiki won't let me u_u )

Unapproved sub-articles:
(we broke out much of the cadre text into the cadre article when making the changes for Varia to simplify the culture article)

Thanks!

Okay I'll get to looking at them once I can get a good read. Thought the 3 sub articles, those should all probably be their own submission, as one is cultural 1 is organizational, and one is an animal. None of them are really required for the approval of the Varia and Operators, I figure they're just mentioned in in articles? (Only skimmed so far so correct me if I'm wrong)

Yeah, there's references both ways so I included them since they're unapproved. I have no issues making them separate submissions!

Okay we took some struggling with this one with figuring out what was wrong and how to word this post, and I'll be honest together me and Ame still aren't 100% sure about everything, but we've identified some spots that seem to be causing this confusion.


I know I said the page was "On the right track" before when it was still just "NDC human clones" but this has developed a little too much. The purpose of the basic Varia page should be to simply explain and validate the fact that the NDC -does- produce clones and quite often. It's to establish a baseline so that the operator can then be made as a variant of those clones and/or a variant of an already living creature.

You going to want to cut this article down to explaining what a basic NDC clone is. If the Asclepius system is not clone exclusive it should just have a page on its own that is then linked to this. And the culture section should be turned into a "How clones are raised and treated in the NDC" in the NDC culture page.

I would suggest reading the "Human" article in SARP. Your article will look different of course, but it serves a similar purpose, to validate the existence of something that is mentioned else where, not to establish something special.

There are concerns about the Operators feeling like they've lost a bit of their flair to the base Varia, but maybe we'll handle that after the base Varia are worked on. It's hard on both the NDC and the player if we try to grasp everything at once and fix it.

There is one other thing though, and that is there's a habit of "Self reference linking" in these pages, by that I mean that you link to a different part of the article within itself. That should really be minimized and saved for when it is only necessary.

@Ametheliana can chime in too, I'm not super confident I explained everything perfectly

I am not entirely sure how something being too developed is an issue that would hold up approval. Not enough detail, I could maybe see, but this is getting kind of ridiculous and seems more and more like filibustering with every post.

I'm not sure how to proceed with some of that feedback.

Here's what I'm going to do right now:
- I'll break out the Asclepius into another article to be worked on in the future. I'll just change references to it back to the 'nanite based health system' that I was intended to expand on; those references can be fixed in the future
- I'll remove some of the cultural impacts of the new clones and let the culture page speak to it. I feel like removing the impact weakens the overall narrative I'm working on, but it's not something I want to argue about
- I'll remove the self-references. I find them helpful, but again, not something I want to argue about

I'm going to put the submission itself on hold for now. I appreciate both of your time, but I need to step away from this for a bit.

You don't have to remove the impact, just move it to a different page for the most part. I guess the best way to describe the issue is, the page still looks like it's trying to make an individual species with the basic Varia. I understand any frustration, but we're trying to essentially reformat something from something that normally wouldn't be allowed but to something that would be and isn't just a "We called it something different so now it's good." But we're also trying not to remove anything from the idea.

If you need a break that is fine. I'll take the time to try and figure this out and I'll be around for any questions still.

"While not a separate species from Humans, Varia recognize themselves as distinct due to their culture, clone nature, and various small improvements."

My biggest growing concern is that they feel they are separate from humans but without much reason. If you were a player coming in to this setting fresh, how would you want the NDC's spectacular and just-for-them clone group to be explained in three words or less to make you want to play them? Think about that sell and how you want your creation to be EXCITING. They are basically something that has been done again and again on SARP with little to no new concepts as is. I was so excited talking to Syaoran in the beginning of this because this can be the NDC identity the site has been craving. It's not that right now and maybe it's a lot to expect, but a faction only gets so many shots at trying for that that identity through a submission like this. But as Syaoran and I are both saying to one another, the concepts that makes them this identity can not come from us- we're asking you to make them, Whisper.

At the end of the day, we also understand the utility of having the clones (Varia) the NDC have made for a bit in canon to have a page. Maybe putting emphasis into Operators and who they are and why they are what a player will gravitate to would help, here, rather than going back to Varia.

I'm not really sure how to address that, Ame. I'm sorry it's not exciting enough?

I've spent more time than I intended writing and rewriting my thoughts and intentions in this post. I spent a lot of time getting the original article to a point where I, at least, was excited about it. Other NDC players seemed to be. I did my best to try and find ways to satisfy all of the demands that were placed upon me/the NDC when pursuing this as part of our strategy to separate ourselves from the other factions while still respecting the faction as it currently stands. This was not easy and I've put a lot of time into getting it here. If all of that effort has let you down, then I apologize.

When I made the original submission, it was my intent for it to be a species that was exciting, but familiar to people who enjoyed mech shows (Newtypes, Coordinators, etc..). Among the various feedback I got on the issues with the NDC as a faction, I was given pretty explicit direction not to try and make a super-soldier or something similar. A type of upgraded human who would be a solid mech pilot, but was otherwise pretty normal, as the faction's predominant 'species' felt right. From an IC perspective, the narrative made a lot of sense.

I was aware of the Human+1 rule at the time of submission, but after having received no issues with the proposal on the faction plan I submitted, sharing the articles with Ame (and others) directly, and getting a positive response from Wes on the direction, I felt like we'd be in the clear. Given that the other factions have their own flavors of human in some form or fashion, it seemed appropriate and appreciated that the NDC would be allowed to do so as well.

I'm not sure how else I could have approached this and all of the variables that I was trying to solve in submitting it. That this submission is causing pain for others and getting people in trouble was certainly not my intent when I started.

As I said before, I'm going to wrap up the few changes I said I'd take care of and then put the submission on hold.

I respect you both for doing your job upholding the rules and protecting the setting. I know this thread has not been easy for either of you and appreciate your efforts to guide the submission into something that is a better fit. Thank you.

We were just bemoaning today that we never really got the chance to tell you what's right.

-It's a series of high quality articles with both dense amount of content and an ease of readability. That's no easy task!
-You wrote an article that NEEDED to be written. Cloning has been happening in USO and NDC for awhile, since Uso basically stole/garnered ST machines and put them in Nath Tower (easter egg: named after my character Aashi Nath!!!) until a giant battle decimated that area and left the skyscraper a husk. It's been awhile and with that tower article stripped, it's gone. You definitely filled a wiki whole with Varia and the creation process.
-It gives player character context in a very new way that makes sense for where you wrote it. The cadre and how they're mentored and learn in VR is superb for space future. Also highly detailed while being a good read.
-You've been a team player throughout this despite setbacks.

I think I can address what I said: I was thinking a lot about Varia when I wanted to know about Operators. I am going to sharewhat you said when you linked these to me in DMs. Tell me if I should delete: 'The Operators are basically a riff on Newtypes and other "advanced human pilots" from anime. The influence is intentional, so if new players come in we can say, "Want to do mech/newtype stuff? NDC"'Lean into that and we'll be gucci. Sorry if I came off harsh, it's a bad way to express love and hope for a submission.

I'm being asked to go on a dog walk or else I'd add the other five bullet points of what is good : ] We'll wait patiently for you, though!

Hey, I was wondering what the status of this submission is, since it's been a while since the thread had activity.

When I talked to @Whisper privately, it was on hold.

I am going to move this to abandoned due to a month of no movement. It can be resubmitted in the future.