Neko Martial Arts

Alright...this took a lot of work, but I think it's a good start.

https://wiki.stararmy.com/doku.php?id=wip:martial_arts

@raz please let me know if those two entries for the two variations of the style you mentioned look good. I tried to work the story into the description for the Samurai version, but I could be more specific if you want. I thought SAINT would also use a fun acronym for their combat skills, and that was the best I could come up with. It's a little silly, but I think it works...and in a world with DATASS and, well, SAINT it doesn't seem too bad. Again, if anyone has a better idea for an acronym that gets the same basic idea across, let me know. Is there a SAINT person around that wants to chime in on if that looks okay? @DocTomoe or @Rizzo maybe?

I shoved in all of the non-Yamatai martial arts I could find with a quick search, but if anyone knows of similar articles I missed, point them out and I'll link them.

I could also use fancier names for the bottom three Samurai entries.

Then once this looks good I can start writing the one page I started off with, heh...

Overall, sweet article. So many of us have probably wanted this exact thing for ages! It's amazing.

Reynolds said:

raz please let me know if those two entries for the two variations of the style you mentioned look good.

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You got it backwards. A single SAINT operative taught Sesshoku Sentō it to a single Fukei in YE 34. Afaik, Tokuko hasn't passed it on further. Doshii hasn't yet taken up my offer from the last bullet point, so it's just her for now. Even if she is given FM permission to pass it on, it would not be a sub-style of Sora-Mai. It's about grappling and destroying, not fluid gravity manipulation. Arm bars and larynx strikes, not aikido flips.

Before that, she only knew Sora-Mai and whatever personal style she developed while enforcing the law on Nepleslia and the Empire. Before the SAINT guy studied with some Kodian in a waterfall cave and instructed the proto-SOFT team he commanded, he character only knew SACQC/Sora-Mai (for use in Daisy combat) and the jiujutsu SAINT operatives are taught (which you have a good basis for there), plus whatever personal style he developed.

I'd like to keep it this way, which is why I provided a specific historical rundown in my previous post. The likes make me feel as though our FMs didn't hate how it was described. I was always taught that it's better to develop things in roleplay rather than try to say "it always existed," and this style's development started in 2012. Historical nuggets will always be part of setting elements, but I'd rather see the elements I went through the effort to create within the SARP's developmental regime be maintained rather than cast aside—if they're going to be used at all.

Feasibly, Saiga or another member of the 482nd could have passed on Sesshoku Sentō during mandatory in-service SAINT training (which is actually already a flashback post currently in-progress) or have put on clinics for the wider education of front line operatives. Director Shida would certainly approve something like that, since it'd keep the bastard out of trouble, but I'd never thought to make my martial art mandatory learning for all SAINTs rather than just the NPCs I'm intimately acquainted with. Or, I guess you could just fix it to "SAINT>Samurai" instead of "Samurai>SAINT" as the mechanism for wider dissemination and take it out of the Sora-Mai category, since that's what I said and it's a super simple fix (highlighted for tl;dr. I can only tl;dr when it comes to setting discussions).

On a more general note: for the SAINT style you've created, I don't think you should mention disabling Neko as a focus. I mentioned it in my post because it was describing my Geshrin character's "budo," to use a SARP term. He sought out the warrior-mystic to learn some strange lost art of effing up golems because he's at a disadvantage compared to his ubiquitous Neko colleagues. Most SAINTs should be concerned with fighting Mishhu and other actual enemies of the Empire and not the rogue Neko sects that we all know Wes wants gone.

Got it, I just thought you meant you created those characters in that order, so it spread from one bio to the other, not that it actually happened in RP. I moved that style to the bottom, next to SAINT but not a sub-style of it, unless you think that would make more sense? I also edited both descriptions to fit that story and the reasoning behind their creations.

raz said:

If Samurai Master Doshiington wants to let Tokuko be a Sensei-no-Budo and have taught it to other whipper snappers, he's more than welcome.

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Sure, that's cool. It'll be a somewhat unique school, considering most schools focus on weapons, with empty hands techniques as foundations for those teachings.

Okay, I adjusted the wording a bit more to make it more clear again. I also added a Notable Practitioners sub-section to that. I figured most of the styles should have an example character attached to them. It will definitely come up if we start adding lots of other new martial arts characters.

Does anyone have examples we can use for the other styles? Especially the ones from other planets. Does anyone feel like writing little blurbs for Nepleslia and the others? I guess I could just copy the first paragraph or so from the article itself and edit it a bit.

If you want to volunteer one of your characters as an example, that works too.

Kokuten's samurai Chi is likely a practitioner of the polearm style. So was Kyoshiro's Asami. Spears were all the rage for a while there!

5tar's Sumaru might be a good candidate for the double swords style, since 5tar was a wild guy. Probably more likely the power armor style, too, since he was a SAoY pilot who got to become a samurai. He got unceremoniously chumped in RP and subsequently did hara-kiri, though :\

Tsuya-sama is probably the bar-none master of the Power Armor focused style, I'd think. She's the Daimyo and leads Yui's 1st XF Samurai Detachment into battle.

Reynolds said:

Okay, I adjusted the wording a bit more to make it more clear again.

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Sorry to double post! I did a quick edit there so it was less raz-grandizing. There's no need for that! Notable practitioners are more than enough. Hope that's okay :^)

That edit seems fine, sure.

I added those suggested examples to the page, along with a few more I found while searching. I even remembered a few Gartagan fighters I ran into before. For the others I added the two people listed as helping create the Nepleslian one, and the two main characters from the warrior caste of Lorath. Works for me. These ones have such in depth articles that I don't see a good reason to add more description when there's plenty inside the links, but if someone else wants to flesh those parts out a bit more, go for it. I started a Neko Martial Arts thread, after all...!

Asami had a specific named martial art with an article and everything, so I added that as well.

I am not sure about attaching any characters to the SACQC or SAINT sections. I would want to make sure the SAINT people are comfortable with the little description I wrote up. And I'm not sure who to single out in SA. I have an Infantry character, but I'll already have my own little piece of the page. I can think of a few others, but most have stuck to PA combat. Maybe @CadetNewb has a few suggestions.

raz said:

5tar's Sumaru might be a good candidate for the double swords style, since 5tar was a wild guy. Probably more likely the power armor style, too, since he was a SAoY pilot who got to become a samurai. He got unceremoniously chumped in RP and subsequently did hara-kiri, though :\

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Sumaru was very clear in that his character made something of his own by dabbling everywhere. Considering how Jo Midori - a Kusariebi-no-Kage - was his teacher... he probably had greater ties to it. I don't recall him dual wielding either.

As for Tsuya, the projectile/gravity manipulation school is actually inspired from reading how she fought in an RP Wes wrote with someone else a long time ago. She probably adheres to it, might quite likely be its founder - her being away most of the time is probably not a big deal; she probably leaves behind plenty of sensei she personallyhandpicked and trained to teach it for her.

I'm not positive Sora qualifies as Nito Ryu. She's currently training by the Nito Ryu founder, but Saya-san knows more than just that (it's like a D&D specialist wizard, even if you're an evoker or an enchanter, you can still have access to a lot of other spells).

Kotori started as a Nito Ryu, but she only went through 2/3s of the training before quitting. She rounded that up - since then - with Star Army CQC and power armor training. Therefore, I don't think of her as a notable user.

Kosuka is a Nito Ryu sensei. Kei is someone Kosuka taught and whom graduated to being a full-fledged samurai herself.

I don't believe the Samurai have a school dedicated to power armor combat. Some of their schools translate better for power armor combat, yes, but there's likely none that focus on it. My take on it is that during training, that training is outsourced to Star Army instructors. All samurai eventually receive power armor training equivalent to a Star Army soldier. While some could become masters, I dont believe that would be the basis for founding an actual school at the samurai house for it - too close to the "I wield a single sword" and "I fight using gravity manipulation" and "I need to learn how to shoot a gun" common training all of them get.

Fred is right RE: power armor combat schooling for Samurai. It's a general training regimen, which is why the Power Armor Pilot class is considered lower value.

Doshii Jun said:

RE: power armor combat schooling for Samurai. It's a general training regimen, which is why the Power Armor Pilot class is considered lower value.

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Only suggested Tsuya and Sumaru as experts for it because Reynolds is trying to make it. Though, truly, I don't understand how you guys can envision it like this if you want them to respect Japanese martial arts tradition; mastering fundamental styles, regimes, and forms is a very impressive feat in and of itself.

Even if the class is "low value," they're still Ketsurui Samurai. I've been told they are among the most impressive fighters in the galaxy, whose Journeywomen plebs can easily brush aside even the most elite and veteran Star Army soldiers. It doesn't make any sense whatsoever that they wouldn't have a style for power armor combat, as @Reynolds is trying to codify. Moreover, I don't think anything called a "samurai" would believe other schools that focus on other weapons are "good enough." Members of the Gunsotsu probably freaking name their favorite Aether Beam Saber Rifle and train specifically with it because katana techniques don't realistically translate to effective use on a bigass heat blade with a pistol grip.

If you need a better pop culture reference to understand, think about how Obi-Wan Kenobi decided to master the oft-disregarded defensive lightsaber form ("That is so like you, Master Kenobi. I am called a great swordsman because I invented a lethal style; but who is greater, the creator of a killing form—or the master of the classic form?" -Mace freaking Windu).

A little heavy-handed, Raz ...

I can imagine those things being roughly true, but I should be more clear about why some classes are so low-value. A power armor pilot isn't part of a protective force meant to guard the people or, more importantly, the Empress and her family. They're infantry. Their martial skills are put to general combat.

So while they might name their rifles (a great idea!), the skills they bring to armor piloting are the skills of a trained Samurai, not a super-duper armor pilot. Put another way, they are awesome just by virtue of their Samurai training.

Surely they know the basics very well! And they can put them to a more violent, efficient purpose. They are special too because each has at least some training in other schools, even if they carry saber rifles (or beam sabers!) and a sword.

But in the realm of Samurai, they're just this side of failed. They couldn't hack it in the formal schools, or lacked the personality for more serious classes. Gunsotsu and armor pilots are warriors, not guardians or sentinels, and those are more important to the Royal Family -- and thus Samurai.

That's why Samurai don't devote an entire school to armor piloting. It's not valuable enough.

Informally, it easily could be different. Skills passed down. Shared across secure PANTHEON channels. Spoken of and shown in VR or taught in unorganized, unpublicized classes. They still are Samurai, they still struggle to be their best.

There's a pretty simple answer to that.

The "schools" like Kusariebi-no-Kage and Nitô Ryu are hand downs from founding members of the Ketsurui Samurai. Individuals that were there when Yui went and decided she wanted a specialized force of traditionally-steeped nekovalkyrja bodyguards for her then-Kitsurugi clan. That happened before power armor were a thing.

The Kitsurugi Samurai didn't go and say "let's have separate schools" at first. They pretty much formed a training regimen where everyone learned everything to be as deadly and versatile as possible with the array of weaponry considered traditionally prestigious, and those needed to work on equal-or-better footing with the military organization that was so important to Yui. Still, each of those whom stayed, whom survived, whom had to administrate and hand down their teachings had inclinations, preferences in what they taught, what they valued teaching more... and they in turn began having a following of teachers and students whom were of the same mind.

Such became noticeable. Eventually, they ratified them in schools. It doesn't mean they don't teach Power Armor combat. It doesn,t mean they don't care to become good at it. But Power Armor is this new thing they added to their training regimens across the board so that they'd be compatible with Yui's military. Of course they care to be good. But they all care to be good at helping Yui.

That's why we likely don't have a special school for it. It wasn't a concern at founding, and it needs to be applied broadly anyways.

+ Fred's points.

The explanations for why a power armor style doesn't exist fly in the face of what a "samurai" is supposed to be. Don't understand why you can't simply accept Reynolds' cool and logical setting contribution. It totally makes sense if you think about the themes, tropes, and actual historical warriors KetSam draw their inspiration from. Not my submission, though, so whatever. Just trying to throw support behind something cool that would make the Ketsurui Samurai actually more Yamataian and samurai-like.

raz said:

The explanations for why a power armor style doesn't exist fly in the face of what a "samurai" is supposed to be. Don't understand why you can't simply accept Reynolds' cool and logical setting contribution. It totally makes sense if you think about the themes, tropes, and actual historical warriors KetSam draw their inspiration from. Not my submission, though, so whatever. Just trying to throw support behind something cool that would make the Ketsurui Samurai actually more Yamataian and samurai-like.

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I appreciate how you feel about it, Raz. I disagree, but I respect the enthusiasm behind it. There might be a way we can compromise.

Since it seems like staff are here, I wanted to throw out this ryu:

https://wiki.stararmy.com/doku.php?id=wip:neju_koyu

Haven't heard back from Reynolds about it specifically, though he said to put something together about it. I have asked around about the historical aspect of it and could make a few things happen, but wanted to hear if I'm on the right track from someone before I throw myself into it.

Okay, let's back up a little:

Wes created the Kitsurugi Samurai. He eventually renamed them to Ketsurui Samurai.
They:

• Use guns
• Use katanas
• Dress in Hakama
• Sleep with their head toward the south, because it has some symbolism with death
• Were usually the best 'available' neko type around
• Have a standardized black hair/pale skin look
• Have the Ketsurui prayer, ever since Wes showed it off on the Y.S.S. Nozomi
• Use Power Armor, and are good at it.
  
• Have a standing rank equivalent to almosat top ranks available to noncomm officers: Santô Juni

That's what the Ketsurui Samurai were.

Then Doshii and I got invested. Doshii became faction manager too. They got fleshed out, namely because Doshii had one of the longest standing stable samurai character and because the Ketsurui Samurai were kind of barebones.

Doshii namely added roles. Things Samurai went out to do. He was trying to rationalize why the Ketsurui Samurai were not just the Ketsurui Clan's private army like Wes envisioned (to the point of Wes going "I don't see why people are using my Ketsurui Samurai this way), and more like wandering mystics echoing Star Wars Jedis the way some GMs/players ended up portraying them

Later on, we identified that some samurai had distinct fighting styles. All samurai could have access to the "default" skillset Wes has originally made them as, but they still had obvious preferences. Some prefered single blades. Some dual wielded. Some could projectile parry, manipulate gravity. Others were invisible guards and being steathy and good at it was almost a religion. Eventually, we identified that some much older samurai actually handed down their prefered fighting styles: not because they couldn't do it all, but because they believed "this method was the best way to fight".

Chizuru Saya was the oldest dual wielder, with sensei under her - namely Kôsuka. But Kôsuka wasn't the only one. This said, Chizuru wasn't alone. Jo Midori's own background had a cruel headmistress nicknamed "the snake" - that became Ebi Nadeko, the founder for the Kusariebi-no-kage. Gradually, from all those various tidbits, Doshii and I figured out there were schools and budos.

The reason why Doshii and I say that a Power Armor school is kind of wierd is because :

1. the founding members ought to have established those preferences of theirs a long time ago
2. it's kind of wierd to call power armor "my favorite fighting style"
3. it's kind of wierd to form a clique of extremely good power armor pilots amongst the Ketsurui Samurai because they should all be extraordinary fighters while in power armor. This forges a distinction of "good" and "very good" which is likely better put on an individual's experiences.
4. There's no way this can actually be used as a building character choice. "I like the spear", "I garb myself very lightly so I can shed it and use my skinstealth", "I like to dual wield" actually contributes something to a character. Going "I like power armor" is rarely going to pay-up visible dividends with a GM, and it's not going to make you magically write what you need to express this expertise accurately.
5. So it's a safer, more accurate choice to blanket all samurai with the power armor training.
6. Doshii's compromise likely leads to "a new school" being created... but then what? All the above caveats still stick. That's not what they styles were for - it's more a belief system for ways to fight, having extra armor and having more potent ranged weapon doesn't seem to mesh in well with that, considering how instrinsic using power armor is supposed to be for all nekos.

Let me get this straight: A Samurai assigned to the Gunsotsu, who are apparently nearly "failed" warriors who get assigned to what amounts to the Star Army's original special forces/assault detachment, could or would not have conceivably created a sub-specialization of Sora-Mai that focuses on the weapons and duties they're assigned to? Is that correct? Please consider that while you believe its weird "to form a clique of extremely good power armor pilots," such a clique has existed since Doshii's formalization of the Gunsotsu and the existence of the 1st XF Samurai Detachment long before that.

Following whatever answer is given there, a second question: How is that reasonable if the Ketsurui Samurai are supposed to emulate samurai and bushido and the perfection in all things that those inspirations demand? Or are they just called "samurai" to sound Japanese-y?

I know the history lesson wasn't for my benefit, so I'm questioning more the logic and thought process you are applying.

Sorry, I'm not convinced. Seems totally fine to me.

But hey, I don't need to be. I'm not going to miss any sleep over insistence that a grouping of samurai decided to devote themselves to the wielding of a power armor. I do think it's highly redundant, but doing so would just add to the hodge-podge of stuff that's in Yamatai anyways.

Doshii and I are people that mess around a lot with said Samurai, we provided our input, hopefully guiding the initiative taken here. We already went on a limb to give the best information that was at our disposal. That's about as much as I care to give, since I don't really have the heart to debate around an addition which was partly made to feasibly fragment the Ketsurui Samurai - something you know is a thing in my plot.

I think it worked out and I'm happy with the result, and I kind of feel the argument raised is kind of an "hindsight is 20/20" thing.