Approved Submission Nekovalkyrja, Type 33A Variant for Legion

[Wes]

Submission Type: Body Variation
Submission URL: https://wiki.stararmy.com/doku.php?id=stararmy:nekovalkyrja_type_33a

Faction:
FM Approved Yet? Yes/Self/Today
Faction requires art? Yes

For Reviewers:
Contains Unapproved Sub-Articles? No
Contains New art? No
Previously Submitted? No

Notes: Submitted for discussion.

A commission is in the works for this.

 

[Wes]

Of course it's preparing for a ground invasion. The problem very much exists.

 

[Moogle]

from whom, though? Wouldn't fleet patrols and powerful strike teams take care of 99% of any current threat? The former preventing landing and the latter taking out what does land?

 

[CadetNewb]

Just to be safe, I'm saying this again; no big commission yet until there's a solid idea of how players would react to this.

Moving on though, I agree with you that the Nekovalkyrja are not, and should not be on a constant downward trajectory, and at the same time, we don't want them going on an upward trajectory in their abilities as well. Previously, there were problems that we're all aware of with having very powerful Nekovalkyrja - that new players would have a horrifically hard time settling into the setting since they'd be so powerful and different from the baseline or norm. And right now, we need new players and a way to ease them into the setting. Right now, the NH-29/33 levels are ideal since they're most close to being human, but with very distinct, special characteristics and traits that set them apart and define them as something special.

There's no need to revisit this again in my opinion. However, on the topic of volumetric personal shields, this should likely be separate equipment, attached to and slaved to their SPINE if so desired in the setting.

 

[ShotJon]

Yeah I am just going to say, that no matter how cool hard light constructing is, it goes against what you said before. When someone else wanted personal shields Wes, you went in with your big admin NO. Now you are doing it and when people tell you about this, you are just going to try to figure out how it could work, ignoring the fact that others wanted to do this before and you slammed hard on them. Not to mention SP4 personal, holy crap that will stop high caliber sniper rifle, no big deal. Aka it will stop anything anti-personnel and just looks like I WIN button added to nekoes.

 

[Wes]

What I said in the Why Are There No Personal Shields was that if felt kind of magic-feeling to me and that it should be projected from Nekovalkyrja skin. I didn't say no to it and I didn't stop other factions from making personal shields like Ira's Gartagens. By the end of the thread I already knew it was something I wanted on future nekos and once I saw this article I was even more sure. Then in the Eucharis RP we actually bought hard light tech, including a shield, from an alien merchant. And the Solid Volumetrics article was approved. So basically, everything lines up in favor of this ability. My only question is whether it should be part of the neko or an add on device that the nekos can support.

 

[Aendri]

I'm still completely against personal level shielding. It's been shot down in the past, and I don't see any reason for that to change.

Past there though, I'm kinda in agreement with Soresu. It wasn't THAT long ago that the 33 itself released, and we're already releasing a new version, with all sorts of new abilities, with no major need, and no research behind it either. Just randomly buying hardlight tech from some random turtle alien doesn't count as anything like "research" to justify this coming out.

I'm also more than a bit worried by your statement that there's a real need for a ground invasion force, since nobody else seems to be aware of this need.

 

[Samanthia]

Partial Quote :: there's a real need for a ground invasion force, since nobody else seems to be aware of this need. ::

It's probably more like that there is very little interest of being a ground invasion force when you can have the higher end tech jobs and space combat. Unless, now the space portion of the battle is over with and the need for more resources to make it worthwhile and cost-wise to clear out the Yamatia's enemy; The NMX, strongholds on the planets.

People will be more interested in ground combat as more plots direct their attention to planetary actions.

my opinion.

 

[Aendri]

Ground combat can be done just fine with what we have now. In fact, the Daisy power armor system was designed SPECIFICALLY for ground combat, and received a major update within the last year. So why do we need a whole new neko, and a whole new armor system, with all new abilites to go with to serve a purpose that we already have filled, and hasn't really been put to use as is? The Legions have been doing fine in clearing out planets (Or so I assume, since most of it has been onelined) without this modification, and there's even a plot based around not having these bodies at the moment. I'm not seeing any real need, and it would put a lot of hard work aside.

 

[ShotJon]

Okay I will budge in again. So I do not really mind this submission in generality. It could be fun, though I do agree that camo-skin would be better then automatic win button in a way of hard-volumetrics that neko could generate on her own. Like you suggest it would be better if this was served by a device, that way. not only nekoes could play with this fun toy, but also others who serve in SAoY, minkans, nepleslians, kodians, well anyone. That is in my opinoin much better and let's be frank. Nekoes are very powerful as its.

What I would suggest for these "ground pounder" nekoes, is to not give them suepr great combat abilites, they don't need those. We have weapons and PA for that. They need stuff that will allow them not to have to go out of armour for long time, survive better. Give them better ability to breath toxic air, loose the NH33 digestive system and move it back to what NH29 had, because that was clearly much much better for someone who has to fight on the ground and might get separated from the base and supplies. Taking off your armour to take a poo is problematic (yeah I went there). Give them better ability to cool off, so they are fine on desert planets.

Maybe more strong bones, something that would allow them carry more equipment and themselves without making them ohmigawd super strong. Like if I remember right, regular neko can lift about 250 kilograms (or was it pounds? Cannot remember.) Sure, you can make ground pounder a bit strong but not way too much. I think 50% strenght boost would make sense, without making them super mega tank tossing monsters that NH27s were.

This body could be rounded up well and work, it just needs thoughts and to sit and compare it to regular NH33 and old NH29 and see what this new body is getting, if it really needs it and how it can benefit SAoY. Aka go down the checklist and see first if we really even need this, then how to go about this and how to make this with as little sour faces as possible. I hope you will read this Wes.

 

[Wes]

What I would suggest for these "ground pounder" nekoes, is to not give them suepr great combat abilites, they don't need those. We have weapons and PA for that. They need stuff that will allow them not to have to go out of armour for long time, survive better. Give them better ability to breath toxic air, loose the NH33 digestive system and move it back to what NH29 had, because that was clearly much much better for someone who has to fight on the ground and might get separated from the base and supplies. Taking off your armour to take a poo is problematic (yeah I went there). Give them better ability to cool off, so they are fine on desert planet...This body could be rounded up well and work, it just needs thoughts and to sit and compare it to regular NH33 and old NH29 and see what this new body is getting, if it really needs it and how it can benefit SAoY. Aka go down the checklist and see first if we really even need this, then how to go about this and how to make this with as little sour faces as possible. I hope you will read this Wes.

This body is a minor variant of the existing NH-33. I'm not trying to design a new neko at this time.

Here's what I did, based on feedback:

• Hard light tech was removed.
  • This removes the proposed personal-scale shield ability.
    
  • I plan to have it be some sort of hardware add-on submitted later.
• The neko's volumetrics were be changed so that "solidness" is achieved through stuff nekos already have: anti-gravity fields and volumetric projection.
  • Mainly useful for clothing (?).
  • This is only a software change.
• The article has been rewritten to clarify what the point of this model is.
  • Basically, Nekos doesn't really need "power armor" they just need "armor."
  • Helping putting the army back in Star Army by moving away from PAs and more towards actual infantry

 

[Aendri]

I'm actually okay with all of that, except that last point. Wes, people LIKE the PAs. They enjoy using them, and getting to play with the iconic armors that are so intrinsic to Yamatai. Taking that away just doesn't sit right with me. It seems counterintuitive to remove a system that functions separately from the neko, but can connect, to create one that is broken down into lots of little parts, with none of the functionality of the PAs. How does the loss of the IES systems in the PA systems get made up under the circumstances? The loss of the ability to manage drones, or function in areas that would be inimical to a normal person? The whole reason PA exist, is they give the normal soldier the kind of wide ranging functionality that CAN'T be achieved on their own.

 

[Wes]

Power armors will still exist and be used, by both regular 33 nekos and by humans and such, but for the 33A they're going to wear armor like knights and samurai wear armor. You could say it allows for mecha-musume to some extent. The IES systems aren't necessary because a neko can calculate firing trajectories and manage drones and the armor's systems fine by themselves, although there will probably be armor that include computers anyway. I have only just barely started the armor page like 30 minutes ago. There will eventually be various options players will get to customize with.

All of this could already be done with a 33 neko, but the 33A is better at supporting non-powered armor because it's stronger/bigger. The 33A model is just more tailor-made for the add-ons to come.

 

[Fred]

And why is the 33A stronger than the Eihei?

Or rather, why is the Eihei not already sufficiently strong to handle those tasks? Being stronger and hardier combatants out of armor than spacy nekos (Tennyos) is practically their raison d'etre, which is why you usually have them in roles like SAINT agents and Ketsurui Samurai.

 

[Wes]

The simple answer is that...

1. Eihei is reserved for elite units and the 33A is not, and the Star Army doesn't want to make the Eihei overly common
   
2. 33A has physically larger muscles because it's expected to carry its armor without powered assistance from a traditional power armor suit.

So the Eihei is stronger out of armor and the 33A is stronger for (unpowered) armor. They have different roles.

Speaking of which, the 33A could use a catchy name, maybe like Bushi or something.

 

[CadetNewb]

In regards to Solid Volumetrics - I wrote that myself, and it just doesn't go well together Wes. It specifically states that it takes a lot to get a solid volumetric image up. It's not just a few light, fluffy motes of light, but enough to make it solid matter. Just going from gas to solid, the increase in density is very, very high, and then there's the additional energy consumption. You need a reactor and very powerful projectors. Even in other settings, they need a lot of effort to do that - Mass Effect and Halo both either need a large assembly, or miniaturized systems. But most importantly? A very powerful source of energy. The first, Mass Effect, uses its namesake - the systems providing the energy are effectively FTL drives. In Halo? Nuclear Reactors. I just don't think Neko got it in them to stop bullets or plasma bolts.

With the armor, they just need about an inch or so of armor plate all around right? Aren't the normal Neko strong enough for that already, quite easily? That's roughly how thick the armor is on Yamataian PA anyways. Maybe two inches at most. Going off what was said, couldn't going back to the NH-29 solve this problem? They have less logistical needs for the extended, messy ground fights due to their organs and things, and they're stronger. I think. Right? Personal energy shields are ok, but it's gotta be well made and considerate of what we got here in the setting. A suit of bodyarmor with an inbuilt reactor and projector system is what is needed.

 

[Wes]

In regards to Solid Volumetrics - I wrote that myself, and it just doesn't go well together Wes.

I've already removed solid volumetrics from the article.

Going off what was said, couldn't going back to the NH-29 solve this problem?

No, it wouldn't at all. The NH-29 isn't stronger than the 33.

 

[Fred]

Wes, if you want to move this to approved submissions, I don't know what you're waiting for.

I think most of everyone that's cared to comment in here has made thier opinions clear, and it mostly revolves around the same issues. I think this did help you tweak some things, but it seems pretty clear to me that you want to push this forward no matter what.

It's a variant, the NH-33 'chassis' is made to accomodate those variants, and 'super-strength' as the distinguishing selling point is feasible. So, go, make yourself happy and try them out. The worst that will happen is that people will shake thier heads in exasperation while you'll potentially have fun with this and eventually time will have this variant sink in the sea of obscurity so many other neko types have ended up in.

So, I give this submission my Get This Over With seal of semi-approval.

 

[Aendri]

Yeah, I have to admit. What this comes down to at this point is that either you're going to push it through against the recommendation of plenty of us, or you're scrapping the idea, since you apparently aren't in favor of making the changes we've asked for, or removing the parts we dislike. This really comes down to a standstill.

 

[Wes]

I've removed some of the software enhancements so the volumetrics don't have substance to them.

This means the only changes between this neko and the regular NH-33 is that

1. this one is scaled up to a slightly larger size,
2. it can take unspecified future cybernetics.
3. It explicitly states it can run a power armor's systems, although it's not clear that this is a new feature. I, for one, thing this was possible already with a normal NH-33.

In effect, the cool new features were gutted due to feedback. But I still want my tall nekos for the Legion, so this is hereby APPROVED.

The submitted article is/has…
[X] A very high level of overall quality
[X] A general topic sentence under the title header
[X] Artwork (Required for new species; Strongly recommended for vehicles and hand weapons) - Used placeholder
[X] Needed and/or useful to the setting
[X] In the proper format/template
[X] Proofread for spelling and grammar
[X] Easy to read and understand (not a lengthy mass of technobabble)
[X] Wikified (terms that could be a link should be a link)
[X] No red and/or broken links
[X] Reasonably scientifically plausible
[X] Reasonably neutral point of view

The submitted article is/does not…
[X] Overpowered (or cutting tech for a faction with little or no roleplay)
[X] Obtusely redundant
[X] Contain copy pasta descriptions of systems or interior compartments
[X] Unauthorized by faction managers or player-controlled corporation
[X] Contain references to IC events that have not occurred (SM must authorize retcons)
[X] Use second-person language (“you” or “your”) unless it is an instructional guide aimed at players.
[X] Use bombastic language (“virtually immune,” “nearly indestructible,” “insanely powerful,” “horrible effects”)
[X] Use an unbalanced header/text ratio (many headers but sections are one-liners)
[X] Use major unapproved sub-articles that should be submitted separately
[X] Lacking Detail
[X] Images hosted on sites other than stararmy.com (Photobucket, Imageshack, etc are not allowed)

The article has…
[NA] Speeds in compliance with the Starship Speed Standard, if applicable
[NA] Damage Capacity and Damage Ratings in compliance with the DR Guidelines
[X] The in-character year of creation/manufacture. (Should be current year. Future years not allowed).
[NA] The Standard Product Nomenclature System, if applicable.


Approved