Nepleslia and its cultural state

[Nyton]

Alright it's time to get down to this business.

Namely: NEPLESLIA!



First Topic: The Super Y Chromosome


For the longest time I think everyone just assumed that since natural born Nepleslian women were rare, they just imported Geshrin/Yamataian women for procreation and Nekovalkyrja for entertainment. A full blooded natural Nepleslian woman would be a rarity that would cause them to be coveted and protected. Also heavily isolated and repressed. If women are rare and female children are desired that would kinda make Nepleslia like a reverse China. In a universe like this one then the concept of buying and selling a female child to the highest bidder would not be unheard of. A poor family (IE Nepleslian male + Yamataian woman) who give birth to a female child (Half Nepleslian/Yamataian) could shoot to near luxury if they sold their child at the right price. Even if it is only half and this mysterious 'super y chromosome' condition is so prevalent that it affects non-Nepleslian women as well, then a female child born on Nepleslia is indeed valuable. But this delves to ask something else.

With all the technology and genetic manipulation (PNUgen can MAKE women outta almost nothing on an hourly basis) I find it difficult to understand why Nepleslia has a problem solving the issue regarding a declining female population. Unless someone was doing it on purpose. Human beings are made up of two chromosomes that specify gender. XX or XY. A woman carries an X chromosome in her egg. The gender is determined by the male sperm which carries either a Y or X chromosome. So when the sperm reaches the egg, the chromosome pairs up and determines the gender of the baby. Given this the problem lies with the MEN of Nepleslia, not the women. This 'Super Y Chromosome' problem needs to be addressed from the male side. Either something in the environment, something with their genetics that was done eons ago and is now long forgotten, or some sort of outside tampering that has been set in place.

But why can't they manipulate the sperm cells to become dominantly X chromosome? That's shouldn't be as difficult as making a Neko. A small independant firm with enough research money should be able to look into this. Hell, if it's really that serious an issue the government should be putting forth grant money in the billions.

Survival of your species is one of those issues that usually tends to draw that much pull, you know?

Or if that's too hard why not clone the women that already exist and disperse them accordingly? If an ST backup can be loaded into a freshly cloned body so a person can live again why can't they just clone the women that already exist? Clones of nekos are possible and established in the SARP. Why not clones of Nepleslian women? And if you need to create more variety then splice the genes of these women to create new women.

Currently using modern day technology scientists can withdraw the genetic information from sperm and insert it into an egg. So all they have to do is find a sperm with the chromosome you want and insert it. Moral issues are the only thing that prevents this from being done with humans. For now. Given PNUgen's prior history, I doubt such moral compass is even an issue.

Given these possibilities I find it strange that they even have this problem in the first place. True I think it's a cool little twist on a society, and I think the whole 'women are rare and thus coveted' an interesting RP background, at the same time... it kinda starts to fall flat.

But let's think of the reasons why this condition exists. Why is there a Super Y Chromosome? I touched on it earlier. Why not expand on it? The mysterious Super Y Chromosome causes the men of Nepleslia to have maybe what, 99.99% Y Chromosome sperm cells? Something like that. Maybe even 100% in the majority. Or some such high end number that causes female children to be rare.

Could this be because at one time men almost went extinct? Could some ancient lineage of humans pre-Nepleslia pre-Rok-veru have needed to make the Y Chromosome much stronger to resist some sort of plague? Is it an ancient genetic manipulation that was done for some long forgotten reason and is now causing unforeseen disaster?

Or is it because the very world of Nepleslia has an unseen and undetectable element that manipulates the genes of it's inhabitants to generate male children?

Or could some modern day outside force be causing this? Could it indeed be PNUgen that is doing this as a sort of way of ensuring the Nepleslians do not become a threat like they did during the early stages of Yamataian independance.

Or could this be the result of becoming so dependant on cybernetics that it has created a genetic condition in the men? The weakness with that theory is that not everyone posseses cybernetics. Unless it is so widespread that it eventually affected every genetic lineage on Nepleslia.

I leave this subject here and turn to another topic.

Second Topic: The Proliferation of Cybernetics

According to the creation guide, Nepleslians are dependant on technology. Cybernetics are supposed to be common place. In fact these are the measures used to close the gap between natural human limitations and enhanced Nekovalkyrja abilities. However according to SARP sources, and even some I wrote, cybernetics are expensive and thus out of the affordable range of the majority of the population since poverty is rampant. But given level of technology and mass production achieved in the SARP, even cybernetics should be able to be marketed cheaply even by 'back alley cyber-docs' (yes Shadowrun reference, sorry). Sure the quality could be low but hey, you get what you pay for. So given this, cybernetics shouldn't be so out of reach of even petty criminals. A thriving black market for parts and services should be able to exist in such an environment.

If anything, Nepleslia should resemble an environment like The Junkyard in Battle Angel Alita. People were thoroughly saturated with cybernetics. So much so that the human form took many interesting shapes. And these people didn't even have the level of quality the SARP is capable of. In a world where space travel and manufacturing is of a high level and the human body has been mapped out to be virtually replaceable we should see a high level of cybernetic technology in place on Nepleslia and so much use that it is almost inseperable from society.


Hmm, okay I've kinda run out of steam and it's getting late. I leave this to everyone to tear apart/analyze/argue/whatever. I'll probably do more damage later tomorrow or something. Goodnight.

 

[Wes]

On the disproportionate number of males:

1. Nepleslians tend to have the super-Y chromosome because they've got ID-SOL DNA mixed into the population. ID-SOLs have been around for a long, long time (they were basically the predecessor to the Nekovalkyrja).

2. A huge percentage of Nepleslians are clones - made expressly to work for their creator for the 8 year slave period. Most clones are made by large corporations, crime syndicates, and of course, Nepleslia's two militaries - the Greens and the Reds. The vast majority of these clones are male - Nepleslians like male soldiers and all-male units. They tend to keep the girls off the front lines and in the armored bases instead.

3. Most Nepleslians are interested more in seeking comfort (material gain) and waging war (attacking or defending) than in having a family. Having extra men isn't seen so much as a problem because most of those guys are in a combat zone and are "expendable" dudes who (according to the wealthy elite that has the women) "don't need their own girl" -- at least until the successfully survive their first 8 years and gain their freedom.

 

[Fred]

Well, the SARP seems to promote taking what is common over selecting rarer choice and yet you'll notice most, if not all, of our Nepleslian player characters have families.

 

[Fian]

Firstly, the causes. As you can see walking out in the streets, our population is composed mainly out of clones. My surveys have shown that the entire clone population has the Super Y Chromosome defect ( Or SYC ), while in the normal un-cloned population there is none, with some exceptions where there is a clone parent. It is only natural that the not normally birthed clones are the cause of this since natural selection would not doom a race to having 1% females.

So why exacly are there so many clones walking out there? The answer comes from our years of warfare. While training soldiers out of normal citizens will take a great deal of time and money, creating clones is a snap. They can be mass produced, they cost less, they are one track minded in their work and best of all nobody misses them should they go MIA. The demand for clones increased as our empire begin exploring the universe and occupying worlds, so much that clone production was being outsourced to the commercial sectors.

Then again, clones dont cause genetic defects on themselves either. But in a recent trip to the Nepleslian National Museum, I had analyzed the cybernetics that were being used during those times. When they were first being introduced, the radiation that these devices were producing was so high that they were not even given to normal soldiers, but to the expendable clones. Most of the clones had only minor difficulties with these implants, but the bodies of the rest were either rejecting them, or stopped functioning altogether.

While the clones were fighting a physical war, the clone producers were waging another. Each company wanted a clone that could function better, and due to combat statistics between cyberized and normal clones, this translated to clones that could better accept implants. The mutation caused by the implant's radiation had given the companies some genetic variation to choose from in picking new host materials for new batches of clones. First degree cloning has little complications, but however these corporations were engaging second and third degrees with their clones of clones, which in each generation eroded the genetic structure further.

Although these clones were always on the battlefield, some of them were "leaked" into society. In an effort to recover some of the genetic structure and to produce further variations for experiment, some companies deliberately paired up clone and normal Neps for their offspring, and the first of these leaks were not normal mutated clones either, but a certain specimen C-02067. This specimen carried the first recorded SYC defect. This was intentional as the companies were only interested in MALE children for warfare. Soon, every other company had C-02067's SYC gene for their mix and match affairs.

The leaks did not stop there, some clones escaped from the front lines, others, in times of peace, were discharged into society. Due to this, SYC took its hold upon our culture, creating the male dominated world that we live in today. The clones had also brought back with them their affinity to cybernetics which also became part of our identity as a race. The spread of the clones were also accelerated due to the lack of females in society (Thanks to SYC), the operation of the cloning vats were still in motion even in peacetime to maintain the population. More clones are now needed to replace those who had died, and more are being cloned out. It is a terrible vicious cycle.

One section highligthed in response to Kotori.

 

[Wes]

Firstly, the causes. As you can see walking out in the streets, our population is composed mainly out of clones. My surveys have shown that the entire clone population has the Super Y Chromosome defect ( Or SYC ), while in the normal un-cloned population there is none, with some exceptions where there is a clone parent. It is only natural that the not normally birthed clones are the cause of this since natural selection would not doom a race to having 1% females.

So why exacly are there so many clones walking out there? The answer comes from our years of warfare. While training soldiers out of normal citizens will take a great deal of time and money, creating clones is a snap. They can be mass produced, they cost less, they are one track minded in their work and best of all nobody misses them should they go MIA. The demand for clones increased as our empire begin exploring the universe and occupying worlds, so much that clone production was being outsourced to the commercial sectors.

Then again, clones dont cause genetic defects on themselves either. But in a recent trip to the Nepleslian National Museum, I had analyzed the cybernetics that were being used during those times. When they were first being introduced, the radiation that these devices were producing was so high that they were not even given to normal soldiers, but to the expendable clones. Most of the clones had only minor difficulties with these implants, but the bodies of the rest were either rejecting them, or stopped functioning altogether.

While the clones were fighting a physical war, the clone producers were waging another. Each company wanted a clone that could function better, and due to combat statistics between cyberized and normal clones, this translated to clones that could better accept implants. The mutation caused by the implant's radiation had given the companies some genetic variation to choose from in picking new host materials for new batches of clones. First degree cloning has little complications, but however these corporations were engaging second and third degrees with their clones of clones, which in each generation eroded the genetic structure further.

Although these clones were always on the battlefield, some of them were "leaked" into society. In an effort to recover some of the genetic structure and to produce further variations for experiment, some companies deliberately paired up clone and normal Neps for their offspring, and the first of these leaks were not normal mutated clones either, but a certain specimen C-02067. This specimen carried the first recorded SYC defect. This was intentional as the companies were only interested in MALE children for warfare. Soon, every other company had C-02067's SYC gene for their mix and match affairs.

The leaks did not stop there, some clones escaped from the front lines, others, in times of peace, were discharged into society. Due to this, SYC took its hold upon our culture, creating the male dominated world that we live in today. The clones had also brought back with them their affinity to cybernetics which also became part of our identity as a race. The spread of the clones were also accelerated due to the lack of females in society (Thanks to SYC), the operation of the cloning vats were still in motion even in peacetime to maintain the population. More clones are now needed to replace those who had died, and more are being cloned out. It is a terrible vicious cycle.

One section highligthed in response to Kotori.

But that's not true. The Super Y Chromosome is not a mutation or defect - it is totally intentional.

 

[Fian]

A mutation or defect that was intentionally retained?

 

[FM]

Perhaps the Super-Y Chromosome doesn't actually cause a lower birthrate of females, but rather females have a high risk of birth defects - making it dangerous to actually have a female child come to term. So essentially, there would be less females not because there aren't females born, but because they don't survive.

If you want to know some of the interesting concepts that would come of such an idea, you can look at Sana's backstory on Sakura.

 

[Wes]

A mutation or defect that was intentionally retained?

It is not a mutation or a defect (I shouldn't have to repeat myself like this). The Super Y Chromosome makes the men super soldiers - and it makes their offspring male. That's on purpose.

Perhaps the Super-Y Chromosome doesn't actually cause a lower birthrate of females, but rather females have a high risk of birth defects - making it dangerous to actually have a female child come to term. So essentially, there would be less females not because there aren't females born, but because they don't survive.

The Super Y Chromosome doesn't increase the rate of birth defects - it lowers them by providing extra mechanisms to check the DNA.

 

[Tom]

It would've been nice to know this before I had one of my players explore the vast depth that was the Super Y.

This was before the wiki, mind you, so information on it was non-existent to begin with.

I felt that the report was very realistic and feasible. Why's it taking months after it was written to bring into light that this theory is completely wrong?

Fian had even begun to figure out a creative way to get around it.

It is not a mutation or a defect (I shouldn't have to repeat myself like this). The Super Y Chromosome makes the men super soldiers - and it makes their offspring male. That's on purpose.

In what way, anywhere, on the CCG does it say that the average Nepleslian is a super soldier? I see ID-SOLs, but they don't account for the majority of the Nepleslian population.

Speaking of 'super soldiers,'... let's explore the CCG.

# Nepleslian <---- Basic Human

That seems to contradict the term 'super soldier.'

Nepleslians, while mostly human, also tend to be mostly male. Why the female birthrate is so low is unknown, but is suspected to be due to a super-Y-chromosome that evolved over time, which dominates the reproductive process.

You can't tell me that, when you read this paragraph in the CCG, that you don't consider the Super Y chromosome to be anything else but a mutation or defect.

A Nepleslian is a human male. While female Nepleslians exist, they are also extremely rare and often closely guarded. Female Nepleslian adventurers are unheard of. Also, while many Nepleslians have some mutant DNA or alien blood in them, most Nepleslians have appearances normal enough to pass for human.

The planetary information for Nepleslia further goes to show that a respectable portion of Nepleslia's population is, in fact, composed of mutants. How does this not indicate serious genetic mutation?

With this practical evidence to the contrary of your statement, as well as a lack of bringing this knowledge into light, can you really say we're at fault here?

 

[Wes]

Sorry it wasn't more clear.

Also, while many Nepleslians have some mutant DNA or alien blood in them, most Nepleslians have appearances normal enough to pass for human.

This wasn't really intended to be related to the super-Y. It's just that Nepleslia's a hub for numerous aliens that don't appear in the SARP, as well as mutated versions of humanity.

a super-Y-chromosome that evolved over time, which dominates the reproductive process.

I meant it became part of the common gene pool. We should have the terminology - evolved isn't accurate. I never thought about it until now. Also, Yangfan wrote that.

That seems to contradict the term 'super soldier.'

Nepleslians are the closest things to basic humans that this universe has - Some players want to play the humans they're most familiar with and I needed something simple to guide them through that part of the CCG.

I felt that the report was very realistic and feasible. Why's it taking months after it was written to bring into light that this theory is completely wrong?

It's the first time I've read it. You could've just asked me for more info.

 

[Nyton]

Yeah I was kinda hit with the same ton of bricks feeling myself after what I read. Wow. Well.

You know this practically alters my entire concept of Nepleslia? I had no idea that we were fighting the Clone Wars here. ID-SOLs I figured were just super trained, beefed up humans. The 'super soldiers' if you will. But now it says that they were ALL super soldiers at one time. Or most of them anyways. And clones. And that the non-clone heritage Neps are still capable of normal male/female birth rate, there just still isn't all that many women to go around because there's a zillion clones out there who are expendable chattle.

So basically Nepleslia is Mars and Yamatai is Venus? One society clones men and the other generates cat women hybrids. And everyone thinks Nep and Yama have nothing in common. ;p

 

[FM]

What this means, though, is that Nepleslian society would be fairly feudal. Essentially, you'd have the clone stock, and then you'd have the normal humans.

This also somewhat means that the Nepleslian entry in the CCG definately needs to be modified in this regard - female Neps aren't as uncommon as people seem to think; it's probably more 75% or 80% men, and maybe only 60% or so if you don't count clone stock.

 

[Wes]

What this means, though, is that Nepleslian society would be fairly feudal. Essentially, you'd have the clone stock, and then you'd have the normal humans.

This also somewhat means that the Nepleslian entry in the CCG definately needs to be modified in this regard - female Neps aren't as uncommon as people seem to think; it's probably more 75% or 80% men, and maybe only 60% or so if you don't count clone stock.

Right.

 

[Tom]

Well, all these revelations blow my mind.

Feudal society? I mean, yeah, I figured we'd have a lot of clones, but I didnt' think that there'd be so many of them that we'd basically have our own version of the cannon-fodder Neko. Unpleasantt.

I was envisioning, since the start, a sort of hyper-America, an extremely opportunistic and capitalist society, but one where the majority of people at least have the right to eke out an existance. This 8 year slavery thing is news to me.

But before we go into that, we need to get back to the genetics topic. I still think it's unfair to say we're all completely wrong on our rather solid deductions. Given that the information regarding this isn't readily available and (in at least mine and Blas's perspectives) visible anyway, can't we just go with our approach?

I mean, I could understand if this was the pre-history of the neko we're talking about, but Nepleslians really haven't had the same treatment in detail, and there's been a lot of room for interpretation.

 

[Millia]

Stranger than fiction.

I knew a guy for a few years who had an extra Y chromosome; instead of being XY he was XYY. I am not sure how much of his personality came from that, but physically he was very stocky and muscular. He also told me some stories about having anger problems and blacking out in rage when he was younger.

An interesting guy, even if he is a bit crude at times.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XYY

 

[Nyton]

So I guess one of the questions before us is whether we go with the version that Melchior's report gives us. No idea where this source came from but then again I haven't had time to follow it up. Or we go with the one the current players have in mind. But this one is in need of some tweaking anyways to resolve the SYC problem that we never addressed.

*sigh*

 

[Fred]

Wes, you're taking the "You didn't ask, so it's your fault you didn't know how it was" angle to this discussion... which I think is very wrong. The SARP is a setting with an exacting amount of details and we understand that you can't write it all out - you're not a machine.

However, these holes that can be taken advantage of in the interpretation other people have of the Nepleslians (such as when Tomoe and I assumed the Kylie had no scalar protection because there was no mention of it on the sheet - and mentioned it as a flaw that frustrated the Nepleslian several times before you woke up and assured us the Kylie was protected from scalar emissions). I'm inclined to favor Tom's side in this argument.

Tom's the one trusted to be in charge of Nepleslia now. Some of his players have made an active effort to flesh their race out and came up with answers they like. They might not look perfect or appropriate to you, but they are the ones fleshing out Nepleslia while you focus on Yamatai. What you reveal is, of course, important as reference information but it might not be applicable anymore.

From the moment Nepleslia was in Tom's hands, there would be the eventuality that it would change due to Tom's interpretation of it. Tom has a lot more players now, so, this power of interpretation has actually grown stronger since those views and perceptions became shared.

Nepleslia isn't the same as it was. Things changed. I suggest compromise favoring the people actively playing Nepleslia is in order. The interpretations of the people currently playing Nepleslia versus those you held might actually be more fitting for the race (in contrast to what the Yamataians are - a lot of those players went to Nepleslia so they would play more run-the-mill humans versus yamatai's vatborn soldiers).

 

[Wes]

Look, I don't want to drastically change the whole nature of the Nepleslian biology right in the middle of things. I'm used to Nepleslians the way I imagined them - they've been that way since they were invented in the year 1995. I love it when people fill in the holes in StarArmy - but the report tried to fill in a hole that wasn't there except for in Yangfan's Nepleslian CCG writeup. There are two resources StarArmy has to prevent these conflicts that were ignored: The questions forum, and the approval process. Either way would have allowed me to explain, but I was in the dark until yesterday.

 

[Nyton]

I thought this was the questions forum.

I know I never read this report or anything like it in the CCG when I originally made my character. I mean this whole clones thing just takes me by complete and utter surprise.

Dude, this has like serious retconnish/continuitiy/logicalities and other such problems. I don't even know where to begin.

 

[Wes]

I thought this was the questions forum.

I meant Fian, who wrote the report, should have probably sent something so major through the approval forum or questions forum.

I know I never read this report or anything like it in the CCG when I originally made my character. I mean this whole clones thing just takes me by complete and utter surprise.

Well, the report couldn't have made it into the CCG, and it's my fault for not mentioning the clones outside of in-character posts. I've already updated the Nepleslian page on it so this confusion won't happen again.

Dude, this has like serious retconnish/continuitiy/logicalities and other such problems. I don't even know where to begin.

If we retconned the clone thing, the Reds might not exist, for one (they use it heavily).