Nepleslian Guard Corps

[Aendri]

I still think it needs to be clarified whether this is a standing army, or a reserve force that can potentially be called up at need. 7 billion standing soldiers appearing out of nowhere won't fly.

And the equipment thing holds true in any case. If you're going to equip them just as well as a Marine, then expand the marines, don't make a new organization. As it is, this just comes off as you not liking the marines, so you want to make your own group to play with.

 

[Arieg]

I still think it needs to be clarified whether this is a standing army, or a reserve force that can potentially be called up at need. 7 billion standing soldiers appearing out of nowhere won't fly.

It won't happen overnight , it'll probably take two-three years of spending and training to hit that number which is the aim.

And the equipment thing holds true in any case. If you're going to equip them just as well as a Marine, then expand the marines, don't make a new organization. As it is, this just comes off as you not liking the marines, so you want to make your own group to play with.

Twenty maybe thirty percent of that number is going to equipped on par with the marines, and thats simply because a bunch of reservists won't last long if the Gulf War is any indication. With the battle doctrine I plan on employing (NATO's concept of forward defense) you still need well armed and well trained offensive units to pull it off and counter major enemy thrusts into your line. For that you still need offensive formations.

And as far as the concern for them being equipped with ships think about it, if your planetary governor wouldn't you want your planetary defense force equipped with its own starships rather them being at the mercy of a Navy that's obligated to cover the entire empire?

 

[ShotJon]

And as far as the concern for them being equipped with ships think about it, if your planetary governor wouldn't you want your planetary defense force equipped with its own starships rather them being at the mercy of a Navy that's obligated to cover the entire empire?

Well one thing is what you want and second is what you have money for. Also the point of Navy is kind of to use their stasthip to defend the empire you know....

 

[Arieg]

Well one thing is what you want and second is what you have money for. Also the point of Navy is kind of to use their stasthip to defend the empire you know....

Money is an object? And yes, they defend the empire, the entire empire. Which means they could be caught shorthanded, a concern for anyone setting up a defensive force for their world.

 

[Sigma]

You consider both existing combat arms inadequate for the defense the Empire. Where do you get such an opinion? So far, the only major incursion into Nepleslia has been due to sabotage and espionage. That's an issue for the IPG to deal with. And that was, I'm told, an event planned by Uso, which leads me to believe it may not necessarily have been liked by everyone.

Money is an object. It defines the plausibility of the venture. If the same money went into expanding the Marines and Navy and achieved the same or greater result, then it shows that this project is just a waste.

And here's an example of the cost. 3.5 billion IBR weapons will cost Nepleslia 2,975,000,000,000 DA. That same money would be able to purchase 3,500,000 Kouken-class escorts. I personally would rather see more warships (and larger fleets) rather than more rifles. Most NAM equipment has no pricing so I have to use the only Origin warship in use by Nepleslia. The same money could also buy 119,000,000 HPARs.

The Navy would certainly be able to protect more people if they could get this money to buy warships.

 

[ShotJon]

Also imagine all the people who are being swalloved by guard that could be sent to boos ranks of marines and navy, even if it would be only for the duration of war. Draft is draft.

 

[Aendri]

Once again. If you want a force that has the same capabilities, and the same basic skills, then just expand the NSMC and the Navy. It makes zero sense to form a brand new organization, when everything you've said is a change that could be added on to what we have.

 

[Arieg]

Once again. If you want a force that has the same capabilities, and the same basic skills, then just expand the NSMC and the Navy. It makes zero sense to form a brand new organization, when everything you've said is a change that could be added on to what we have.

Because the NSMC isn't under the control of a planetary government. The Guard will be, on a planet to planet basis.

 

[Sigma]

You do realize that in times of war, the US National Guard can be called up for federal service?

I believe something similar exists for the British Territorial Army, regional units, which are still sent overseas on the orders of the central government.

And currently... Nepleslia is at war. So if it comes to pass, the Guard would immediately be at the disposal of the Nepleslian government. Especially if you're trying to get the central government to fund it. You're not making a private army in Nepleslia at the expense of the Nepleslian state.

The moment an invasion occurs, the Navy and NSMC (and thereby the central government) take command of the planet's defense. As the theoretical youngest service, the Guard would never really be exercised in combat situations under the planetary authority since the more experienced services will immediately step in during times of conflict.

Further, why would the central Nepleslian government PAY for a force that is not in its direct control? This gives me even more cause to disapprove of this concept. Money which could fund our senior services would be sent to a service not controlled by the government.

 

[Arieg]

You do realize that in times of war, the US National Guard can be called up for federal service?

This isn't the US National Guard.

I believe something similar exists for the British Territorial Army, regional units, which are still sent overseas on the orders of the central government.

They don't operate beyond their home systems, period. Each Guard detachment is specifically responsible to their own planet and nothing else.

And currently... Nepleslia is at war. So if it comes to pass, the Guard would immediately be at the disposal of the Nepleslian government. Especially if you're trying to get the central government to fund it. You're not making a private army in Nepleslia at the expense of the Nepleslian state.

It would in a certain way yes, and technically the Nepleslian states (the planets) are funding it. Who wouldn't want their own defensive force that doesn't have to respond to a war that they have no part in?

The moment an invasion occurs, the Navy and NSMC (and thereby the central government) take command of the planet's defense. As the theoretical youngest service, the Guard would never really be exercised in combat situations under the planetary authority since the more experienced services will immediately step in during times of conflict.

If it were of a scale that that Guard couldn't handle yes, such as something on the scale of the Battle of Nepleslia. Smaller situations, minor scrimmages, or even a moderate military attack could easily be handled and crushed by the Guard. The Navy and Marines aren't omnipotent nor are they numerous enough to cover all the bases and be everywhere at once. Thus not tying up Federal level military assets on every planet. And as far as experience look at it this way, the Guard's ranks will probably be composed of everyone from your weekend warriors looking to pay for school up to retired or disenchanted Marines and Navy personnel who retired or got out and went home but opted to sign up just in case their home world came under threat.

Further, why would the central Nepleslian government PAY for a force that is not in its direct control? This gives me even more cause to disapprove of this concept. Money which could fund our senior services would be sent to a service not controlled by the government.

Because the Nepleslian states would probably want this to happen, an extra layer of security between themselves and another Rok'Veru. Especially considering, even though it was Uso, the incidents on Nepleslia would have shaken their faith in the ability of the Federal government's ability to defend them.

 

[Kokuten]

Let's clear up some things here and get my foot down on the situation so we're all satisfied with direct and 'Nepleslian' information.

The guard serves as a protectorate force who not only handles the defense of the planet, but serves to preserve order of the Imperium's worlds. They are the acting force that works not only as a military arm, but an assistant to any arriving Marine forces, they're local and they know the terrain. These kind of guys are necessary to provide adequate defense to all planets, especially in the case of Rok'Veru, where the marines did not arrive in time to adequately defend the planet.

Our Marines, the marine-marines of the NSMC are the hands of the Imperium, they're needed for defense, but total offense. We can still afford to fund a strong offensive arm, while also having a cost-effective vanguard force. We cannot assume Nepelslia can afford to outfit every single person in power armor, and not like that's a good idea in the first place.

We need a force that's not only suited for defending a planet, but is also controllable as well. If we get some high-ranking official with a wild-hair who thinks he can turn his forces into an indepedent nation, Nepleslia has the federal means to put down such a rogue move. In short, this is a wall, and a wall isn't supposed to bite back, so we make it with as few teeth as possible.

In this case, our Nepleslian Guard is just strong enough to handle planetary problems and issues, but nothing large enough to be a threat to Federal Imperium as a whole.

 

[Arieg]

Let's clear up some things here and get my foot down on the situation so we're all satisfied with direct and 'Nepleslian' information.

The guard serves as a protectorate force who not only handles the defense of the planet, but serves to preserve order of the Imperium's worlds. They are the acting force that works not only as a military arm, but an assistant to any arriving Marine forces, they're local and they know the terrain. These kind of guys are necessary to provide adequate defense to all planets, especially in the case of Rok'Veru, where the marines did not arrive in time to adequately defend the planet.

Our Marines, the marine-marines of the NSMC are the hands of the Imperium, they're needed for defense, but total offense. We can still afford to fund a strong offensive arm, while also having a cost-effective vanguard force. We cannot assume Nepelslia can afford to outfit every single person in power armor, and not like that's a good idea in the first place.

We need a force that's not only suited for defending a planet, but is also controllable as well. If we get some high-ranking official with a wild-hair who thinks he can turn his forces into an indepedent nation, Nepleslia has the federal means to put down such a rogue move. In short, this is a wall, and a wall isn't supposed to bite back, so we make it with as few teeth as possible.

In this case, our Nepleslian Guard is just strong enough to handle planetary problems and issues, but nothing large enough to be a threat to Federal Imperium as a whole.

Exactly, it'd take more then a wild haired officer. The Federal level leaders would have to anger over half of their planets for anything to happen worth noting. Otherwise they'd get squashed like the Chechins.

 

[Arieg]

http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff3 ... dAPC-1.png

Medium, 8x8 wheeled Armored Fight Vehicle, standard chassis will include a 30mm coilgun turret, it will be amphibious, and have the capability to be air lifted, and it'll employ a laser point defense system.

 

[Cedric]

From what I'm told, they're equipped on an entirely different inventory (all Zen Arms) and won't use our cast-offs even though its cheaper. And yes, they're nowhere near as versatile as Marines.

Though why we don't just enlarge the NSMC instead of a new arm is a policy question I don't have the answer to.

All I can tell is that the point of this branch is to provide a buyer for the new Zen Arms weapons.

Why don't you use a pencil as a torch?

Because while, yes, it will burn, and it will provide a bit of illumination: that wasn't it's original intent.

Besides that, it's more time-consuming to re-train than to simply train. Take a Marine like Cedric, who has never spent any time in a reserve unit. The most time he spent off-field was several weeks -- and even then he was busy as hell, founding the Sapper School. Outside of that, he's always been on the frontlines, fighting, and (once, thus far) dieing against NMX forces. Now tell him everything he knew about offensive battle plans is out the window, that he has to go to some planet far from the lines, and sit on it for many months straight without engaging the enemy. He'd go stir-crazy. Phaedra would go stir-crazy. I don't wanna' even guess how Laura would react in the long-term! The point is that Marines (IRL, and it seems in this universe as well) are not generally of the personality to do a job like this.

That's why we have Air Guard units flying over D.C. instead of active Air Force pilots. It's their jobs.

Besides, it's not like you're taking Marines out. It would be bringing in new people. new blood, that would be trained for the Guard. We wouldn't (nor could we afford to with the way units like 4th Fleet seem to operate, far from home, and deep in enemy space) be pulling away Marine forces. Besides, I'm tired of there being only three plots to choose from as a member of the Nepleslian miltiary! Add some spice to this thing! On top of that, nobody is saying this unit is the do-all-end-all of military branches. It's not like it would have stopped the Nepleslian invasion. Nobody is saying that. It's just that having forces in already set positions would have likely reduced the otherwise horrific footprint left by the NMX invasion force.

Well that is not truth. Marines are current infantry of Nepleslia and they are equipped to defend as much as they are to attack. Theit tactics might not suppoer it, but that would easy to fix.

Not to mention that I really do not see any IC reason for guard. Creating sub-division of marine corps would be cheaper, easier and faster. I can see OOC reason which is that you just wanna make new stuff Arieg.

Just because Marines are "current infantry" doesn't make them suited for the job. The government can use them as they wish, but that doesn't mean they would be good at it. Especially if you need to (as you said) rewrite several parts of Marine operational doctrice (retraining, as I discussed already).

It's like saying because you own a BiC lighter, that a flamethrower wouldn't be better at killing people.

Marines could defend the ground. The problem is that, while being orbitally dropped, it is to establish fixed positions (during invasions of friendly territory), and thus placing themselves in front of the enemy. It would be far deadlier to have those positions there and manned (as well as anti-orbital fire towards NMX ships), so the Marines could instead drop in behind advancing enemy forces. FThis could be a classic development of the "Hammer and Anvil" tactic developed by Alexander the Great and his contemporaries. Far more effective than just throwing a wall of lead at your enemy's face. I'll explain it in this simplified form.

The Anvil: A Nepleslian Guard Corp heavy artillery unit stationed on a small ridge over-looking a wide field and river. With a security element of two infantry platoons assigned, they have been tasked with holding the ridge, and providing indirect fire support for local units. Ahead of them are the forward elements of an NMX ground force (let's say, for the sake of argument, a metric crap-ton of Rippers) who are advancing on their position. While the unit could (alone) take out the advancing enemy force, it would be far more resource-efficient in long-term aspects, to instead use this tactic, and not just chunk lead at them. After all, Rippers may not individually be tough, but there's a ton of them in any given fight.

The Hammer: Under command of Admiral Valken, 4th Fleet is in orbit, with their home ship busily punching as many holes through NMX defenses as possible. Supplemented by ground and in-orbit Guard anti-ship batteries, they are able to gain an advantagious position over the field of battle. Volkov's Cavaliers suit up in their PAs, and are flung down to the ground below via catapult. Landing, they are (as planned) placed behind the advancing Ripper forces. With precision sniper fire, well-coordinated artillery fire, and the simple use of small-arms carried by the PAs: they divide and shred the Ripper unit. In all, the engagement lasts forty minutes. As opposed to an hour-thirty of just throwing rounds down-range.

However, I'm not saying the Guard should be a standing military force, fully equipped, and always manned. Of course there would be people who do the stuff every day (just like the REAL National Guard of the United States) but I imagine a (at least) small majority would do it a few times a month, and a few weeks out of a year (such as myself). As I said, I believe the Guard could be a game-changing asset in the fight against the NMX. I just don't think it should be a full-time and constantly moving force. Lower the number of starships (after all, the Navy can't be everywhere), keep the orbital platforms, and I would be behind this.

After all, being one my self, I can't help but like an organization of Citizen-Soldiers.




So far, it seems the only arguments to get rid of this force are the fact that it's not the Marines or Navy.

On the flip-side, some of the arguments to make this force are that it's not the Marines or Navy.


I say we make, see how it runs, and go from there.

You don't know if you can fly if you haven't tried walking.

If this idea gets accepted, you can bet your sweat petute that I'm makin' a character for it!



EDIT
Also, this unit could be used for Marine characters who don't get used a lot otherwise. A secondment program where Marines are sent to train and work with Guardsmen, training the few PA pilots there are, teaching simple things like room clearing, and also acting in a similar role to US advisors during the Vietnam War (in instances where the Guard and regular military are working in cooperation, helping to coordinate the two forces).

~ Thank Sanderford for that idea.

 

[Wes]

Are you saying this would be for a plot?

Would new players have to choose between guard and NSMC? How would transfers work if they wanted to change plots?

 

[SSharp]

Who said that, Wes?

 

[Cedric]

I'm not saying that.

Sanderford was suggesting that, for characters like Naomi, who aren't extremely active (or as active as the average board-goer) would be able to participate in something to do with the Guard. It could be as simple as ordering a cross-training event from superiors.

We do that all the time with active soldiers in the Guard. They don't have to switch branches, they just come work with us.

 

[CadetNewb]

Let's try and keep in mind that this isn't the United States National Guard.

I'm under the impression that This Guard was inspired by events in Lam's Plot, "Taking it Back" where the civvies picked up arms and fought tooth and nail against the NMX with everything they had. The idea was simple - why not give them some better, but still dirt cheap equipment and some training? Like taking Minutemen and giving them RPG's, mines, grenades and maybe flak vests.

But from there, the idea grew. Why not have them watch over their own world proper? Sure, makes sense to have them do something. And we kept on adding on to it from there until we're now with this bloated mess that nobody can agree on. But Kokuten's spoken. They're a protectorate force made up of the local Joes and Janes of the very planet they defend, but also serve to help keep the order.

But still, this is pretty loose - we still don't know what they're going to be equipped with. I've heard of AFV's, Tanks, Fighters, Orbital Defense Platforms and Ships being talked of. But personally? I'd rather stay closer to the origins. The whole original point was to prevent a planetside invasion from turning into a complete bloodbath by having something to both lead civies to safety and to hold the line until the marines arrived.

Taking these viewpoints into consideration, just what are they going to be equipped with, and just how organized will they be?

 

[Arieg]

wiki.stararmy.com/doku.php?id=members:arieg:nepleslian_guard_equipment

Kinda a rough list of what I'm working on, each of those 'concepts' will probably have art here in a few weeks then articles.

Overall the 60 percenters that'll be weekend warriors will be organized into area defense units, primarily with semi-flexible mobility but with a set area of responsibility. The Signals Intelligence and General Intelligence units will fall into this category (enhancing their operational capability significantly by being localized assets).

The other forty percent will pretty much be everything from ship crew to shock troops. Their organization I'm still thinking on.

 

[ShotJon]

The FM has spoken but I still has words to say to you Cedric.

First of all no one said that if there would be sub-division of marines, then they would be pulled from actuall units. THat is stupid, they would be taken from new recruits and trained for their tasks. Only peopel that would be pulled out are people who would actually train them, but hey guess what? These have to be pulled out to train Arieg's guard too. YOu cannot just hire some mercs for that. But we got over that anyway. Guard won't be subdivision of marines so I dunno why you took it out away.

Another point, even if Cedric and Phaedr or other veteran soldier would be pulled out to serve in defense of planet that is not problem. So they would not like it? Who cares? THey are soldier they should listent to orders, shut up and do their works. Also yes Marines are current infranty of Nepleslia. They are NOT assault only. Marines pulled of defensive maneuver well before. Take evacuation procedures at Tok'Veru and Tange. And who do you thinkg mans current outpost? Penguins? No, the marines.

Not to mention that I am very offended if you think me or Sigma does not know what hammer and anvil is and how it works. But guess what? That could be used with marines too. One unit of marines is deployed for defense and hold the enemy while, other stratecigaly inserts in Enemy is back or flank and hits them hard.

That is about all I wanted to say. I am still on Cadet's idea of Guard being few patriotic kids with assault rifles trained to hold the enemy off until cavalry arrives. That would make for much more fun in any potential RP I think.