New faction 3 month rule.

[Fred]

Reading the above, two things occur to me:

• Nothing exactly stops a faction from being worked on from day 1 of a new member coming in this community. The actual approval and in-universe implementation of said new faction is an entirely different matter. I think Legix's experience speaks for itself, and this is what makes me feel that the afore-mentioned roadmap may be the clearest way for new people to track the requirements to making a new faction, as they struggle to figure out its place in the universe. As a drawback, though, this means it can be resource intensive; you'll have people working on new factions needing to be actively chaperoned through the process; the "be-with-us-awhile" requirement lets them simmer for 3-months, acclimating and therefore answering for themselves a lot of those early questions simply by being given the time to thrawl the wiki.

• We have a non-cannon roleplaying section where these prospective new game masters/faction managers can actually do test runs that won't be considered in-universe yet. This is the crucible where it's determined if an idea works, or not. Usually, excellence speaks for itself, and SARP has had no shortage of unapproved ideas being raised by fellow members whom felt they were too great to pass up. Those that successfully write to their audience see their ideas elevated, and those that don't will see those same ideas die in relative obscurity. It's a stark outlook, but the years have taught us that: the successful attain credibility; those that survive the ego-bruising perfect their craft; the prideful few that put their ego first will whine and eventually leave.

"Knowing how to write to an audience" likely covers why people believe a delay of a certain length is necessary. A level of communal pride is likely what creates resentment towards the people that come in and immediately want to carve out a piece of the pie ("You come to us because you like what you see, but then would rather do your own thing rather than play with what's been already built in the sandbox?"). Historically, SARP has very little patience for self-assured virtuosos since it is pretty much a meritocracy. Most of us have already discovered that through foibles of our own; and given that, there's not a wealth of patience spared to those tone-deaf enough to remain oblivious to that process.

"Yes, but-"

There is no "Yes, but-". Hard work is what elevates you. Not your pride, not your self-esteem (though a degree of that does help you survive criticism). Toshiro is actually one of the best examples here of someone whom has struggled through this process and found success. I remember. It wasn't easy for him. Sometimes, he went without any helping hands. Sometimes, I didn't think he'd be successful. Today, look at the ties he's forged, see the regard other people have for him, see the plots he's taken the helm of, see the sheer quality of his wiki articles.

Respect. Being able to listen, and caring about what others think (agreeing to take heed to a counterpoint doesn't mean immediately capitulating, but rather give it consideration). In this thread, we see him being annoyed (he doesn't suffer fools, I get it), but does anyone ever remember Toshiro actually being disrespectful to anyone? I sure don't.​

Persistence. Failing, and yet being able to rebound and iterate. Toshiro has been disappointed and discouraged in the past. It hasn't been easy to get where he is, but he reached it by persevering.​

Effort. Words fail me here. Just look at his wiki stuff and how intricate that is. That stuff doesn't write itself. And that level of quality wasn't cultivated overnight.​

Those are his recipe for success. The wise should take heed.

Some new people might catch that I referenced them as "fools". To those that applies, I'm sure that word will bite deeper. From you, I've seen some of the more annoying debating I've had the displeasure of seeing in SARP: the argument made out of endurance. Basically, it's insisting on the same argument over and over (albeit at times worded differently, occasionally punctuated by some butthurt) until the other party gets sick of arguing and just capitulates. Only fools do the same thing over and over expecting a different result while not taking heed of that.

The human being is capable of more. Try to be an awesome one.

 

[Charmaylarg Dufrain]

Maybe after rascaldees gets his faction approved/denied (did someone mention it was already approved already by wes, or is it still at the whim of the NTSE?) we can take a break from factions for a bit and take some time to officially re-structure the rules. Like bringing back making your faction start as a sub-faction that can grow from there like back when i came back from my several year long hiatus and there was a faction ban because of stuff like this. People would come in and week 1 try to demand their furry OC species/faction and then leave as soon as constructive criticism is given.


From that when it was lifted we got S6 (A very active faction). And the MoD from dragongod (Who actually took the time to make his faction, and was very active in the discord and forums the whole time.) and some time after origin (which while its slowing with kai busy/gone, is still there!)

i want to make a faction someday. Ive been here for almost 10 years in some capacity and i have big plans i want to act on someday! But im taking the long road and taking my time! and i think others should too~

 

[Legix]

Maybe after rascaldees gets his faction approved/denied (did someone mention it was already approved already by wes, or is it still at the whim of the NTSE?) we can take a break from factions for a bit and take some time to officially re-structure the rules. Like bringing back making your faction start as a sub-faction that can grow from there like back when i came back from my several year long hiatus and there was a faction ban because of stuff like this. People would come in and week 1 try to demand their furry OC species/faction and then leave as soon as constructive criticism is given.


From that when it was lifted we got S6 (A very active faction). And the MoD from dragongod (Who actually took the time to make his faction, and was very active in the discord and forums the whole time.) and some time after origin (which while its slowing with kai busy/gone, is still there!)

i want to make a faction someday. Ive been here for almost 10 years in some capacity and i have big plans i want to act on someday! But im taking the long road and taking my time! and i think others should too~

We can call it Lil' Nepleslia.

And make it full of little muchkin mice people.

 

[Rascaldees]

Therr are many differences between the UCS and Nepleslia. But I won't waste my time explaining those differences to people that seem intent on insulting rather than attempting to understand.

 

[Arbitrated]

Now now, let's not get all tense and antsy...


There is a reason people compare militarized and/or human-based factions to Nepleslia, though; many people have tried (and almost all of them have failed) to create them and Nepleslia has always had general similarities to the other factions - sure there's differences, but enough similarities to at least poke around with connections and point things out.

 

[raz]

There is a reason people compare militarized and/or human-based factions to Nepleslia

It's because despite other humans existing, Nepleslia is generally the site's PoV faction for all things "space humans" related.

 

[Alex Hart]

I feel the need to reiterate something that Fred said earlier. The approval and implementation/canonization in-universe of a new faction is an entirely different matter from it beginning work on the wiki and RP. Things are generally soft canon until wiki approved.

 

[Rascaldees]

I feel as though the point has been missed.

My proposal against this rule is not simply for the sake of setting clarity but for the freedom of other writers and their ideas.

I've heard a lot of "play Yamatai" and "play Nepleslia" and "play this faction". And what if none of those factions appeal to new users? What if the culture, role or general idea of these nations don't appeal to them?

What if a new player has a genuinely good idea? What if their culture, nation or otherwise is genuinely well thought out and original?

Bulldogging these players into playing something not only limits that freedom and creativity but also stiffles the potential for new ideas. Not only does it do this but it can also make a setting stagnant very quickly. If no new ideas come then what happens when the well runs dry and there are simply put no potential new plots or new people to interact with?

Other people have come before me and left people here with hurt feelings. So what? The fact that they created something and abandoned it shouldn't lead to hate and mistrust of every single new person that arrives here. It should be celebrated that they felt this place was important and vibrant enough to create something in the first place.

"Violence begets violence" are famous words said by Ghandi. Hate begets hate and mistrust begets mistrust.

Someone has to start somewhere and take a leap of faith that others will do the right thing. Sure, life gets in the way. Sometimes faction leaders may, for whatever reason, split away from the site.

But pushing new ideas out will only serve to encourage such behavior. If the same thing was coming the other direction and no one wanted to play Yamatai or Nepleslia, what then? Force them? You can't. Not if you want new people to join the site. And the internet has a bad habit of catering to the freedoms of players.

You can't force someone to write what they don't want to write without physically putting a gun to their head. Not only is that sort of action morally reprehensible but it's impossible for anyone here. The exact same treatment can be said for Yamatai, UCS, Nepleslia, NDC, MoD and any faction in the setting.

People will RP these factions because they WANT to RP them. Not because some rule says that they have to do so. And any rule made forcing them to do so is only going to encourage them to leave without contributing anything here.

So pass this rule if you want. I am just a man, after all. However, mark my words when I say that these trends are easily observed in not only RP sites but social media and the economy in real world. The players here are people with real desires and real dreams and real actions. They can easily be expected to walk away from a setting that they feel too restricted in.

That said, some rules are given. But the mass amount of people would never RP a character they were essentially forced to make.

 

[Soban]

Something that frustrates me is that when they split, they split and take all of their lore with them. Often leaving messy gaping holes in the setting, especially if they have been around for a while.

Star Army has deep lore that takes a while to learn. I still make mistakes about the lore and I've been here almost two years. We need to make a setting primer so that new people are able to get a quicker sense of the setting and it's basic ideas.

 

[SchererSoban]

Well I know im new though I did sign up for the forum over a year ago ( I also lurked for abit longer before really committing to the site). I think the 3 month rule will be good in the short term but a long term process should be looked at and discussed. Under this rule technically I should be able to write a faction but to be honest I shouldn't. The reason why is i'm still learning the format of the site as well as still learning about the lore a lot. I do have experience in it, with previous D&D experience plus being part part of a old star trek community for 10 years but the think is I don't have the experience here.

I think a big thing is putting in your time, as with work and other groups you should put in your time. A previous rp I was part of for 10 years was the Star Trek Simulation forum where it was live based once a week in a chat room for our rps. Each plot would be a ship but before you could get on a ship you had to go through a graduation class where a gm would make sure you fellow the rp's rules and formats and after being determined to be proper you where able to apply to a ship plot. From here you would start off as a basic ensign and work your way up.

At first it might seem frustrating but I know my experience there was amazing. I had a half baked idea of a ensign and he developed in over 10 years of roleplayings. I know the ship I applied to I didn't get the position I want ( I want security but joined as a engineer). As I was part of the ship I even got to move to a different department but my gm asked me since a long time player was going to leave and since orienteering was having issues getting people asked me if I would move back to the department. At this point we had rped together for a few years and I said sure. I'm glad I did this cause I was able to get a better prospective on things and I was able to work my way up and became the chief engineer.

I learned a lot and had a lot of character developments during this, a Warrior mindset as a engineer. After a few years my gm would ask his senior players some plot ideas or little hooks for upcoming arcs, this was major since it gave us time to plot ideas as well see other ideas from our fellow members. Now some of my ideas since I was younger got shot down but my gm help me develop better ideas and encouraged the ones that where half baked and just needed further refinement. So with that we had a mentor ship program kinda of in place and helped develop both new players but also give development time to the crew.

They also had a graduation program in place to get new GM's for when a new ship plot was needed and we had a great pool developed over the years.

Now I know this exact method can't be used but I think the nature of the merit could be looked at . Now we are all writers and we are all people who want to develop something unique. We all want the things we breath life into be hero's in our story or something we make critical to a plot. Lets be honest we do that, we do that with our skill and our ability but we should learn about what came before and build with it. We want to have it flourish with whats there and really build contrasts and paint that bigger picture.

So I hope that if we do implement this rule that we look at further refining it. That we encourage people to join plots and also work on developing our player base as we have done so before. That we mentor and take suggestions to see where we could grow as a player base.Lets put somthing in place maybe like a weekly or monthly post to talk about sarp development, maybe things we might be lacking or maybe things we can do to encourage our newer players into a plot. Maybe we can do some creative writings as a group effort to create new factions and also to discuses it among est our veteran and newer players if we find we need a new faction. Lastly lets keep having fun in all that we write but lets keep anything with are creations clear and cut.

Sorry for the ramble but hope this helps.

P.S long live the ship Kaiyo a plot that adopted me and is my home on the site.

 

[Miko]

Just make an apprenticeship for people looking to brave making a faction. Technically speaking a faction takes weeks if not months to build. Having a guide would help mold the faction to meet site standards and build community.

Afterall we are here for community, helping make new leaders is key to the success of any operation.

 

[Alex Hart]

It's looking like the voting has died down, and even with a split vote, the majority seems to be in favor of the 3-month rule.

 

[Charmaylarg Dufrain]

Wes has mentioned a few ideas he has on the subject here, But nothing official. Kind of spitballing it looked like.