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NTSE Issues

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raz said:
It's not the worst idea. Give all NTSE mods power to moderate posts before they go public (essentially the feature that Sya is talking about) so everyone still gets to give their feedback, but only stuff someone on the review staff or actual staff thinks is valid makes it through to the public eye.
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As much as it pains me to say this, in my opinion not all of the review staff or "actual" staff are non-biased - which would again raise the problems of censorship and some people's feedback being more valid then others.
 
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FrostJaeger said:
As much as it pains me to say this, in my opinion not all of the review staff or "actual" staff are non-biased - which would again raise the problems of censorship and some people's feedback being more valid then others.
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Well that's why you open it to all of them Frost, so that all the staff can see it.
 
If we do this, no half measures. Like I said we should try the flat out new way temporarily. See what we all think that away we have evidence, if we dislike it universally we dial it back.

Other forums have according to wes have stated their success, it is at least worth a look.
 
FrostJaeger said:
As much as it pains me to say this, in my opinion not all of the review staff or "actual" staff are non-biased - which would again raise the problems of censorship and some people's feedback being more valid then others.
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I agree with you on that frost. However, this new method could be effective in curbing that. The bias will be subdued when outside influences are minimized.
 
Syaoran said:
Oh this...this reminded me. Doesn't the news forum go through an approval system before post show up? Couldn't we do something like that for NTSE? I personally would rather all post be allowed and bad ones be removed(and discipline given), but I still think having to get a post approved before it goes through would be better than a 'private review' system. That way any bad post are stopped before they're even seen.
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I think you're on to something here. If we use that system for the NTSE, people can still post, but they'd be pending moderator review first.
 
"Other forums have done it" is a bad excuse, because "Everything has been done before." It's not like we're working with original ideas here. I bet you can find places that have an open system work. After for a time it was working for SARP without even any real rule enforcement. The problem with 'trying it' is that mentality you posted.
Ira said:
See what we all think that away we have evidence, if we dislike it universally we dial it back.
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Even if there's a better way out there, one we've tried it people will be against chaining it unless it fails. It's much better to look at all our options talk them out, figure out which one seems to be the best and -then- try that.
 
Syaoran said:
"Other forums have done it" is a bad excuse, because "Everything has been done before." It's not like we're working with original ideas here. I bet you can find places that have an open system work. After for a time it was working for SARP without even any real rule enforcement. The problem with 'trying it' is that mentality you posted.

Even if there's a better way out there, one we've tried it people will be against chaining it unless it fails. It's much better to look at all our options talk them out, figure out which one seems to be the best and -then- try that.
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I will repeat what I actually said: I said other forums according to wes have been successfull with the method he mentioned. Successful people emulate success. I’m saying let’s try it before we buy it. I’m merely suggesting we scientific method it, and move from discussing the hypothesis to actually testing it out.
 
Ideally, people could just decide to be mature enough to participate in a detached, professional process. That's why we review things at all — quality control and consistency — in a word: editing.

Some of us have professional editing backgrounds and know no criticism is worthless. Everyone, even the best writer in the world, needs an editor. Everyone.

I've done professional editing. I know @Doshii Jun still does. Some others as well. If something is wrong, you tell a person and let them fix it. If you caught them doing something naughty (i.e. copypasta), you suggest that they fix it before someone notices. And you know what? The high drama here on SARP only ever ensues and escalates because a submitter takes suggestions as an attack, at which point they insult the person giving criticism, who subsequently gets riled up and yells back at them.

People who cannot handle the quality control process should not be putting their stuff up for review, plain and simple. Save it for when you can take at least the most minor criticism in stride. Public submission reviews are SARP's longstanding attempt to be professional, and the process has served us very well.

Nothing would even change with locked-but-readable reviews, tbh. Everyone would still accuse their favorite NTSE punching bag and claim bias (and if what I've learned about private conversations in this thread is any indication, the charge wouldn't be wrong).

Please. Decide to act like professionals and adults. Foster a collegial atmosphere rather than a paranoid one. That's what I try to do, that's what Legix tries to do, that's what Gunhand and Ame try to do. That's what it looks like Syaoran tries to do when he posts like he has been lately. Frost. Meta. Etc. Etc.

But it's hard to make it work when the effort is one-sided.
 
Well firstly if we're talking scientific method we've already skipped steps, the first thing we should be doing is isolating the variable that is the problem. But also we should be laying out our options to efficiently pick. Unless you want to commit to trying -every- suggestion so far for a month. Not sticking with anyone until we've done them all.

AS for Success emulating success, like I said if you look, I'm sure you can find all sorts of successful systems, even the system that we're currently using. Because honestly the systems we see simply "Have not failed yet" there is no guarantee they will -continue- to be successful. After all our system was working, until recently. We also did use the suggested system before apparently, and it failed.
 
I'm honestly not sure what the old system even was, reading through that old thread. Frost claims that's what the old system was, but so far I haven't found any indication that it is as he says. I'll take a closer look in a few minutes, but I need to post elsewhere first.
 
CadetNewb said:
I'm honestly not sure what the old system even was, reading through that old thread. Frost claims that's what the old system was, but so far I haven't found any indication that it is as he says. I'll take a closer look in a few minutes, but I need to post elsewhere first.
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@ArsenicJohn claimed it was the "old system," @CadetNewb, not me. I merely claimed it was the "mystery box," as, well, that's what @Fred (and @Wes, if memory serves) called it.
 
raz said:
The high drama here on SARP only ever ensues and escalates because a submitter takes suggestions as an attack, at which point they insult the person giving criticism, who subsequently gets riled up and yells back at them.
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Sorry for quoting myself and all that, but I'd like to expand on this with a personal anecdote: Staff members routinely "Like" my first post in NTSE threads but delete my subsequent posts in the same threads (alongside the submitter's own freak-outs).
Legix said:
  • Grow some thicker skin and stop taking everything as a personal attack.
  • Let the staff handle actual disruptive behavior.
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Basically this.
 
I didn't claim any knowledge of the thread, the old system, or the mystery box - I was just saying some things may have happened behind the scenes.
 
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