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NTSE Issues

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I can say i have done nothing wrong here save for being friendly to everybody and giving everyone a chance, as i would prefer to be given. Some have been kind. Others have been threatening. Most have been indifferent, or watchful to see where i placed my allegiances. It does sadden me that i can't be assessed upon my own words or work. This is most unfortunate of all, as many who come here are younger and are looking for a community to call home, as the real world has plenty of challenges enough. I believe the senior members are often looked to as either role models or wiser heads. My suggestion is as Edto suggested: Be kind. It costs nothing and may pay dividends. To those who do not wish to be kind, or feel slighted without recourse, step away from those who cause you that pain. Do not always feel the need to comment, especially if one can't separate their feelings for the person and their work. I do understand there is a great deal of investment from both sides, investment i don't share as of yet. But i have experienced the darker side of this site. I reported that interaction, though no apology was forthcoming. Fortunately I have a bit thicker skin from living a bit longer than some around here.

So what is your point, Bullroarer? And who are you to speak when you are so new?

My point is if i can see and experience these things, so can others. Especially others who may not be as equipped to handle these situations. Those who are new, either to the site or life. And to those that feel my "newness" discounts my opinions as uninformed, I have seen and experienced plenty of people in my life and some commonalities seem to always be present. Lets be amicable and civil, if nothing else, shall we? Lets set a better example. I can take the high road when slighted. So can others.
 
What the hell I was pinged here.

What the hell happened here.

What the fuck is wrong with you all

Try not to look at me like some model reviewer. I am not. I am far from perfect and I don’t think I wish to be perfect because that’s a wholly unachievable standard and all it’ll do is cause too much stress for too little reward.

I thought NTSE was the place where you shouldn’t care about emotions. Just hand in the checklist, hand in the criticisms, get them fixed, Bob’s your creepy uncle who gives you fucking spongebob socks every year for Christmas.

Teachers don’t care about your “emotions” when they grade an essay of yours. They take it, they grade it for what it’s worth, they hand it back. They may say “good job” here or “you suck” there but it always tries to stay as objective as possible.

So why the hell is the NTSE trying to be any different. This system here has worked for centuries. Heck, I wouldn’t be surprised if there was some Ancient Greek kid who was bummed out because his teacher gave him a poor grade on his essay he spent a week working on.

And that’s the thing. Everyone wants to think their idea is perfect.

*inhale*

Cut. Your. Ego.

You are not perfect. Your ideas are not perfect. I can’t make them perfect.

But the idea that your idea is this immutable holy object and any modification to it is ABSOLUTELY HERETICAL is a silly idea.

Fuck, get over it. Rarely will your idea ever be the best.

I suggest every submitter stop trying to defend their idea like “it can never be changed because it’s perfect right?” Your article may very well potentially have flaws. In fact, for a lot of your your flaws are predictable.

Excuse me for this callout post — it only serves as an example for the trends in flaws.
  • Ame tends to try and write too much in each subsection. Instead of making lists she embeds them into paragraphs.
  • Zack tends to write the bare minimum.
  • Arieg doesn’t have a sense for the balance of power in an abstract system, trying to apply too much realism.
  • Frost tends to fill his articles with references to literally everything, making it take forever to tab through each link.
  • Ethereal tends to be on the other end of the spectrum. He submits a Corp article and has zero products with articles, personally leaving me kind of confused.
The problem doesn’t come in these error trends. The problem comes in trying to say “No, I don’t have these problems!”

It’s like trying to deny that the constant of gravitational acceleration at the earth’s surface is 9.81 meters per second squared. You have the problems. You constantly have them.

I, however, do not suggest every reviewer soften up too. The objective remains the same: Help the person submitting. It’s our job to crunch the rules and apply them to the article.

Your job as a reviewer isn’t a subjective job. Objectively, it’s to hand a person the checklist and get on with life.

WHY ARE YOU NOT DOING THAT.

Hand a person a checklist, detailing everything. Get on with life. Go play Doki Doki Literature Club or something. If they argue, fine. Point out why you made the choices and let them have their justification. Don’t bend for them because of their emotions, bend for them because of their logic.

Meta, out.
 
World would be much easier if reviews of submissions were limited to NTSE mods only. FMs can work out with submitters what's good and what isn't in PMs.

Mods are installed to their positions for a reason. Apologies if that point's been made, but it bears repeating.

Quick edit: Go Fred.
 
Doshii Jun said:
World would be much easier if reviews of submissions were limited to NTSE mods only.
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Moderator: "an arbitrator or mediator."

Mods are here to make sure reviews go smoothly and to do the "official" check off. Mediation in the absence of others being party to the discussion isn't moderation at all.

As a note, all of the NTSE mods who've quit have done so because they don't like that stuff they approved turned out to be unapprovable and reversed.
 
Doshii does bring up one point. I don't think Mods should be the only ones allowed to talk in reviews. But I have seen people who aren't mods go in and change things on other people's submissions because they feel that something needs to be changed. That is a serious problem. Unless the mod tell someone or they get the submitter's permission -before- hand players shouldn't be touching other submissions, not even for spell checking.
 
See, I would be inclined to agree Doshii, but both mod and FM posting in the same thread may point out things that they missed.

Without mod and FM in one thread communication issues might happen.

In fact FMs point out a lot of big concerns I miss.
 
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It seems like the NTSE system is good. The people in it are bad at their jobs is all.

I'd be perfectly happy to wait three weeks to see something go through if the person reviewing it did their work right. Hell, everyone has bits of it, but in reading NTSE threads in my spare time, it looks more like my country's embarassment of a political system than quality control.

The mods currently working with it should be ashamed of themselves.

Worse, it's not just the NTSE. That's a symptom of the childish behavior and the trolling that plagues this site like a cancer. You're all the problem. Find a solution, please.
 
"The mods suck!" has been a constant criticism of the NTSE. Honestly, nobody's ever going to work perfectly with others simply because of differing "personalities" (as this thread proves).

We're certainly at a better point approval mod-wise than we've been in a long time, though. Especially with Fredly helping out on the authority side of things so much! There's less bias, more thorough reviews, and (this part may seem unbelievable) things get approved faster.
 
@HarperMadi The biggest problem I can point out is the decay of the intended NTSE process.

You were actually quite a nice person to review for, even though I personally didn’t sign off your checklist. We asked you why the Eye was way above standard caps, you gave us a reason, we entertained the numerical values for power balance concerns, and everyone was nice.

The problem comes when two sides aren’t willing to change where they stand at all, and then edit wars come in, and...

Well, I’ll be honest: People have basically treated mods as their bitches and mods have had varying responses. Some go easy, some go hard...

Just use the damn system. It’s there, it works, use it, go home and play Xenoblade. That’s really my psychology and I’m practically the only NTSE person that doesn’t get shitflung because I’m doing my job. Nothing more, nothing less.
 
Good. That's progress. But the idea that constructive criticism isn't your place to care and that you'd be creating for someone by doing it is fucking shameful, Raz.

The mods suck, the players suck. Everybody sucks because we're human. But I am sick of seeing shit on the site and the discord that makes this site look like the goddamn GOP and the childish begavior it entails.

Progress is good. And I thank you for that.
 
HarperMadi said:
But the idea that constructive criticism isn't your place to care and that you'd be creating for someone by doing it is fucking shameful, Raz
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I'd link you to every occasion where I've proposed a change to someone's offering so you can see how polite I am until the point at which some thin-skinnned baby flips out at me for my advice, but I'm pretty sure the effort would be wasted since your opinion comes entirely from sitting around in the Asteria server watching people talk crap on everyone they don't like.

But, you know, I'm over anyone believing lies about me because I'm awesome and enjoy SARP regardless of the spite.
 
Thank you, @META_mahn I intend to continue using the system and intend to continue seeing progress with you guys fixing it. I must admit I kinda lost my cool after reading through this thread and it showed.

The problem is still mostly in the dispositions and opinions of the people involved. Nothing that a quick check can't fix.
 
@raz

You're right. I do sit in the Asteria server and watch people talk crap about you and it pisses me the fuck off. They're just as bad as you lot!
 
No worries, I absolutely flipped when I saw both sides completely losing sight of what it means to even have an NTSE. Walked in, gave everyone a knuckle sandwich, I’m happy now.
 
HarperMadi said:
@raz

You're right. I do sit in the Asteria server and watch people talk crap about you and it pisses me the fuck off. They're just as bad as you lot!
Click to expand...
I am not sure why you'd think this other than it's the only thing you've experienced. The extent of private conversation I have about SARP with people y'all see as "my friends" entails 1) talking about SARP stuff, and 2) going "lol get a load of this troll post where they're attacking someone, guys. isn't that silly?"

Meanwhile, we've all seen the screenshots about the stuff said in Asteria chat.
 
@raz I'm gonna let you in on a newsflash you might not engage in saying a lot of things about people. But as someone who communicates with both sides I can assure you they both have been pretty slanderous about the other side. No side is 'right' or 'better' in this. There is nothing to be gained or proved by lingering on which one was more well behaved in the past. Focus on being well behaved in the future, where it really matters.
 
HarperMadi said:
The mods currently working with it should be ashamed of themselves.
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Excuse me! o/

I'd like to know when you opened your wallet in order to furnish the cash in order to expect this level of quality out of volunteers.

I'd like to know why people practicing their hobbies, and volunteering to give free time - often away from what they'd personally prefer to spend time on - in order to help out just because they happen to be decently knowledgeable enough with the setting and willing to lend an hand... I'd like to know why they should be ashamed of giving.

Because that's what a Mod or a Staff member is: people that give of their time to help out with site stuff. And of course, when you step up and end up being given extra priviledges to go with the responsabilities you perform... it becomes your lot to be second-guessed by those without the burden and the power that goes with it.
 
Agreed. I'm at the cold hate of everyone stage of my anger on this matter.

Unfortunately, I wish I could say everyone was innocent on the matter.

For some goddamn reason, people tend to vent to me about the suck that goes on, here. Including Ame stealing plots and lying about Eth poaching players. Including Ira feeling he has to "warn me" about Legix and Frost. Despite the fact that I rather like Frost's attention to detail.

I think you know perfectly well that I will remain neutral and aggressively so.
 
Syaoran, I believe your advice is spot on. It really helps mend hurt feelings. But...
Syaoran said:
No side is 'right' or 'better' in this.
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I am and I am.

Never going to concede that because I've been nothing but attacked for being a Yamatai veteran who cares about the site and setting simply because people disagree with MY EXPERIENCE AND EXTENSIVE KNOWLEDGE OF THE SETTING'S CANON.

I agree that everyone should show each other respect, and I have up until the point that others do not. But respect the join date and my contributions. There's a hierarchy, here.
 
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