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Approved Submission Ordained Triumph Elysian Warship

Zack

Inactive Member
Submission Type: Battleship
Submission URL: https://wiki.stararmy.com/doku.php?id=wip:faction:4th_elysian_celestial_empire:otbattleship

Faction: 4th Elysian Empire
FM Approved Yet? Yes
Faction requires art? Yes

For Reviewers:
Contains Unapproved Sub-Articles? No
Contains New art? Yes
Previously Submitted? No

Notes: I keep putting it off, I really need to submit this and get it out of the way so I can work on other stuff. Sure the battle management array thing could be its own article but it isn't that important for an NPC ship. As it is I think the article does everything I need it to do. It establishes that this Elysian ship is big and futuristic looking compared to other ships in the setting. Its really big, but on the inside there really isn't a whole lot going on. And finally: It has a really wordy name which is something the faction loves.
 
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I, to put it mildly, have a lot of concerns regarding this submission.

To start, why does this submission not follow the appropriate template, as required by the Submission Rules?

The Submission Rules said:
e. Use the standard format or template, if applicable
Click to expand...

* * * * * * *

Secondly, @Zack, regardless of whether or not this submission is for usage by an NPC faction, the aforementioned template explicitly says...

The Starship Template said:
<NEW: ALL WEAPONS SHOULD BE POSTED AS SEPARATE ARTICLES!
Click to expand...

...thereby rendering your argument of...

Zack said:
Sure the battle management array thing could be its own article but it isn't that important for an NPC ship.
Click to expand...

...completely invalid.

* * * * * * *

Thirdly, the following is a list of things I noticed were missing from the submission:

  • A list of "Key Features"
  • An entry for "Fielded By:"
  • The location of this starship's producer
  • Dimensions such as width and height
  • Number of decks
  • Operational Range
  • Lifespan
  • Refit Cycle
  • Compartment Layouts, such as...
    • Airlocks
    • Armory
    • Bridge
    • Captain's Suite
    • Cargo Storage Areas
    • Computer Room
    • Crew Cabins
    • Engineering
    • Fabrication Bays
    • Kitchen
    • Laundry Facilities
    • Lavatories
    • Maintenance Bays
    • Maintenance Conduits
    • Medical Center
    • Mess Hall
    • Officer Cabins
    • Passageways
    • Power Armor Bay
    • Recreational Areas
    • Shower Facilities
    • Shuttle Bays
  • Deck Layouts
  • Subsystems, such as...
    • Armored Hull and Hull Integrated Systems - and what is this ship's armor made out of, anyway?
    • Computer and Electronics - does this ship even have a method for communicating with other ships?
    • Emergency Systems
    • Propulsion
  • Vehicle Complement

* * * * * * *

Lastly, here are the concerns I have with particular sections of the submission:

Overview
This section said:
Developed in YE 37...
Click to expand...

This should read YE 39 in order to reflect the current year, per the Submission Rules.

The Submission Rules said:
l. Have the in-character year they are released (should be the current IC year)
Click to expand...

Moving on...

This section said:
Ordained Triump
Click to expand...

That's "Triumph, @Zack.

This section said:
Manufacturer | The 4th Great Elysian Celestial Empire
Click to expand...

How can the 4th Great Elysian Empire produce this starship when it doesn't have any shipyards in 000604?

This section said:
Designer | Baal-Hamon Design Cluster
Click to expand...

How can this starship have been designed by an entity that does not have an approved wiki article?

About
This section said:
...carries a small compliment of soldiers with minimal capacity for deployment of ground forces.
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What's "a small compliment" entail? A dozen soldiers? Two dozen?

This section said:
Though massive, the vast majority of the ship is automated, only requiring a single Elysian to give commands, though there are creature comforts to host over fifty support staff.
Click to expand...

Where is the article for the computer system utilized by this starship - and where are the articles for these "creature comforts"? Where is the article describing the neural interface system that allows for that "single Elysian" to give commands? What role(s) do these "support staff" have?

Appearance
This section said:
The four forward faces of the Dimond are patterned with the ship's combined sensor and emitter arrays.
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That's "diamond", @Zack - and where is/are the article(s) for these "...combined sensor and emitter arrays..."?

This section said:
...four large pannels that orbit the ring in the opposite direction that the ring rotates.
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That's "pannels," @Zack. Also, what's holding these panels in place?

Ship Systems
This section said:
Mostly new equipment is contained inside of the ship, as a focused effort on upgrading and replacing the old technology has removed a lot of the older gear present from the previous Elysian wars.
Click to expand...

Where are the articles for the "[m]ostly new equipment..." - wait, hold up. Why does this ship have "older gear present from the previous Elysian wars" when you, @Zack, personally stated...

Zack said:
I'm not using any technology from Elysia.
Click to expand...

Anyways, moving on...

This section said:
The interior of the ship is mostly unlit equipment areas serviced by remote-operated machinery.
Click to expand...

Where are the articles for these interiors, equipment areas, remote-operated machinery, and operator interfaces - wait a moment. Why does an automated ship with a crew of one even have remote-operated machinery in the first place?

This section said:
The living areas of the ship can support a crew of up to 50, though the ship is usually crewed by a captain and up to two support officers to manage tasks while the captain is asleep.
Click to expand...

Again, hold up. Fifty support crew plus one captain plus two support officers plus an unspecified number of soldiers equals more then fifty crew - so what happens to those extra people? Do they just...I don't know, starve or something? Additionally, where the articles detailing these "living areas"?

Battle Management Array
This section said:
The Ordained Triump...
Click to expand...

Again, that's "Triumph, @Zack.


Wait, what? You're telling me these "Battle Management Arrays" (which, as stated above, belong in their own submission) can simultaneously...

  • Detect and project virtually any form of energy?
  • Project a six-faced barrier?
  • Act as a long-range subspace detection array with a passive range of ten light-years?
  • Act as a weapon that can either:
    • Continuously fire a beam (with an infinite range) capable of destroying any other starship/installation/etc. in the setting?
    • Fire a five-second-long 15° cone-shaped beam (with a range of six light-seconds, which violates the three-light-second maximum mentioned here) capable of destroying any group of starships/installations/etc. in the setting every fifteen seconds?

That's so brokenly overpowered on so many different levels in so many different ways I don't even know how of something that I can use as a comparison.
 
I skimmed Frost's response and most of it was stuff that was answered repeatedly in previous articles so I don't think it deserves a response.

I did go through and correct the spelling errors.

The 6-faced barrier thing made me realize it'd be way better if the ship had a 4-faced barrier since that meshes better with everything else about the ship. However DRv3 doesn't have an option for 4-faced barriers and I don't want to have to take up the cause of 'lets have different barrier options!' right now.
 
Zack, the problem is that it's stupidly overpowered. It's a battleship that you have only 50 people on that's stronger than a whole Yamataian group of ships. And that is setting breaking on so many levels that if you don't see it, there's something wrong.
 
8 Tier 14 weapons, or 4 Tier 15 weapons. Literally right in line with the earlier DRv3 requirements.

More than enough for an NPC ship type.
 

This is not just a weapon.
 
It's a toned down version of a weapon used on a smaller ship that was approved recently. ASCs are all over the place in SARP.
 
Zack, I have told you time and again not to go comparing what you're making to another submission, especially one that is of another faction. I'd link you to the article but I feel like it's useless if you're not going to remember it for next time.

As of right now, this is too cutting edge.
 
What about this submission is too cutting edge?

Compare this to the Sharie, the Sharie has multiple ASC style weapons, with greater area of effect, and carries its own battlegroup of fighters along with it.

The Primus carries a similarly numerous amount of weapons and carries its own fleet of attack craft.

Mishhu battleships have multiple shock cannon style weapons and usually carry their own fighters

Even the Tolchock carries 5 Aether Shock Cannons with several hundred times the area of effect.

In comparison, the OT isn't maxed out on speed. Has only the amount of weapons allowed for DRv3 prior to the removal of that restriction, doesn't rock the boat in terms of size or HP, and has weapons with a smaller area of effect than ones that were approved only days ago.
 
"...they serve the role..." not "roll"

Need an article for Battle Management Arrays. After that we'll be getting somewhere, but as it stands now, I have no idea what kind of weapons this is using and what DR they are, either.
 
Zack said:
And Size 14 should get you 8 Tier 14 weapons, 4 Tier 15 weapons, 2 Tier 16, or 1 tier 17 weapon. Luckily I just want 4 weapons so doing the 4 Tier 15 thing should be acceptable.
Click to expand...

Why are you referencing rules that literally do not exist in the current revision of the Damage Rating article, @Zack? You're also missing the point @Alex Hart and myself have made, therefore I strongly suggest that you re-read the following posts @Alex Hart made...


Alex Hart said:
This is Yamataian level weaponry in a minor NPC enemy faction's hands.
Click to expand...

Alex Hart said:
This is not just a weapon.
Click to expand...

..and the following section of the post I made:


* * * * * * *

Zack said:
I skimmed Frost's response and most of it was stuff that was answered repeatedly in previous articles...

[...]
Click to expand...

The above statement is false, as the following concerns stated in my response were never addressed:


* * * * * * *
This Submission said:
Mostly new equipment is contained inside of the ship, as a focused effort on upgrading and replacing the old technology has removed a lot of the older gear present from the previous Elysian wars.
Click to expand...

As I have not given permission for the 4th Great Elysian Empire to use any technology from the Elysian Celestial Empire (ICly or OOCly) in the past, present, or future, I hereby reject this submission as Elysia's Faction Manager.

Moving on.

* * * * * * *

With that out the way, let's look at the Battle Management Array, shall we?

Overview

This section said:
As Combined Field System technology got more complex,even civillian versions of the technology started to develop additional secondary uses.
Click to expand...

False - as which articles (if any) mention these "secondary uses" you speak of?


This section said:
The logical extension of this is the Battle Management Array, a combined set of projectors and receivers that can manipulate gravity and a wide range of the electromagnetic spectrum with a focus on combat applications.
Click to expand...

Again, false. The logical extension of the Combined Field System, in my opinion, is the Integrated CFS Array, not this modern equivalent of the controversial Negative Energy Recoil Drive. Additionally, where are the articles for the "projectors and receivers" this thing uses?

About

This section said:
A Battle Management Array is built from groupings of receivers and transmitters.
Click to expand...

Again, where are the articles for the "projectors and receivers" this thing uses?

This section said:
Using phased array techniques the output of the array can be directed or shifted about for a variety of uses.
Click to expand...

What "phased array techniques" are you referring to? Where is the article that describes them?

This section said:
[...] In comparison to dedicated systems, the Battle Management Array tends to be more energy intensive to use, as it will usually require multiple energy fields to shape and direct its activities.
Click to expand...

What is the nature of these "energy fields," why are they required, and what projects them?

FTL
This section said:
The numerous gravity control emitters built into the array can be used to generate FTL effects, allowing a ship to use Hyperspace Travel.
Click to expand...

How the actual frell can something capable of acting as an Aether Shock Array simultaneously function as a Hyperfold Drive?

Shields
Firstly, this section should be called "Barriers" in order to conform to the nomenclature used in the Damage Rating article.

Secondly...

This section said:
The Battle Management Array is also capable of projecting conventional electrostatic barrier type shields as well as generating an anti-gravity shield to push objects away.
Click to expand...

...how the actual frell can something capable of acting as an Aether Shock Array simultaneously function as a Hyperfold Drive and a barrier?

This section said:
Both of these features are used in combination with other usage modes to guide and shape the energy produced by the array.
Click to expand...

Nice try, @Zack - but in my opinion we do not need more perfectly-accurate weapons like the hilariously overpowered Multiple Engagement Weapons on the Evangelist-class Cruiser. I'd also strongly advise you to consider what @Wes said here:

Wes said:
I agree that weapon redirection is essentially shooting you own shields and is super wasteful.
Click to expand...

Anyways.

* * * * * * *

Weapons
This section said:
The Array is capable or...
Click to expand...

That should be "capable of," @Zack.

This section said:
...producing a wide range of electromagnetic emissions as well as directed gravity.
Click to expand...

How, pray tell, is the Battle Management Array capable of producing these things?

This section said:
For combat the array can produce a directed energy beam consisting of a strong anti-gravity spike and a large amount of electromagnetic radiation. This combined beam tends to be bright white, though it can be adjusted in color or output type.
Click to expand...

Uh...how does that result in a "directed energy beam" - and what enables the Array to adjust the emission's color? More importantly, what different types of output are there?

This section said:
Larger arrays can also produce a blast of Scalar radiation powerful enough to act like an Aether Shock Cannon.
Click to expand...

How the actual frell can something capable of acting as an Aether Shock Array simultaneously function as a Hyperfold Drive and a barrier?

This section said:
The Array also has sensors intigrated....
Click to expand...

That's "integrated," @Zack.

This section said:
...into it, capable of detecting a large portion of the electromagnetic spectrum. They can also double as gravity-detection sensors and long range subspace radar.
Click to expand...

Where are the articles for these sensors, and what are their passive and/or active ranges?
How the actual frell can something capable of acting as an Aether Shock Array simultaneously function as a Hyperfold Drive and a barrier and an electromagnetic sensor and a gravity sensor and a long-range subspace radar?

Like I said in my earlier post:

FrostJaeger said:
That's so brokenly overpowered on so many different levels in so many different ways I don't even know how of something that I can use as a comparison.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
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