Rejected Submission [RA] Raiken Submission

[Sham]

Submission Type: New Race Submission
Submission URL: https://wiki.stararmy.com/doku.php?id=species:raiken

Faction:
FM Approved Yet? Yes, Approved by Me
Faction requires art? Nah

For Reviewers:
Contains Unapproved Sub-Articles? Yes (Read Notes)
Contains New art? Yes
Previously Submitted? No

Notes:

Sub-Article Notes - Raiconian Alliance is NOT being submitted at this time. However, the more detailed Physiology page IS being submitted at this time.

I am submitting just the race at this time.

- Thanks for Reading, Sham

 

[Wes]

Wes notes:

Main article looks good. Though I'm concerned with the references to other species and star systems, which we don't have any info on (though we have to start somewhere).

Also our faction creation guidelines say:

The tech level should be at basic spaceflight or lower.

Starting at a lower technology level is okay. If you start as an advanced species it may make it harder to explain the lack of encounters with your race so far in the IC timeline, as well as make the staff wary of potential power gaming.

Maybe we can waive this guideline if we can explain why they aren't known yet. Where are they on the space map?

 

[Sham]

The easiest solution is put em where people aren't. In this case, this little corner of the map over here.

The small red circle is the Raiken Home System
The small blue circle is the Dralu Home System (Not Submitted Yet!)
The small orange circle is the Whirlim Home System

Being off by themselves, I would assume they wouldn't be bothered quite yet.

That answer that question?

 

[Sigma]

I had hoped to avoid posting here, however, my chat with Blindy did little to answer my questions. So, here I am.

I wish to know - what is the purpose of this submission and the plan(s) for these lizard people? What do you plan to accomplish that cannot be done with existing races?

 

[Ira]

What is your purpose for the species? Answer: Sham's Answer: "To give sarp more Xeno diversity in species appearance, and appeal."


How are they different then the other races on sarp? Sham's Answer:Their government is unlike any in SARP, their culture follows suit. They endorse slavery, and not out of revenge. Their 'religion' is absolute.

What is your plan for the species? Sham's Answer: I'm going to try to highlight some of their 'special' stuff, the government, the culture, and this will lead into some interesting things dealing with morality as well(Basically development for now).


----------------

Sham's answers satisfied my inquiries. The species looks good. They are alien and that stand apart from the major factions in their look and appeal. I see this species as adding to what the Gartagens and Chelti did and gave SARP some alien diversity.

This has my support, though I recommend you make separate biology, psychology and cultural articles Sham. In any event I want to see this article Approved as soon as possible.

 

[Sigma]

I'm still waiting for an answer from Sham. You, Ira, are not Sham. What satisfies you does not do for me.

 

[Sham]

Sigma - Your three Answers

The purpose of the species - Give SARP more Xeno's, and Diversity, while also introducing some new concepts associated with them.

How are they different from all the other species? - Appearance withstanding, they have a unique government structure, cultural quirks (Such as the actively participate in 'slavery') and many rights we take for granted, they do not grant. Their 'religion' is absolute. Biologically they have three genders, not two, and they are lithovores!

What's the Plan? - What's the game plan? Right off, I'll be running plot arc inside the Alliance, where I'm going to dev up, and try to highlight the differences I mentioned above, and play with morality and the 'Right vs. Wrong' dilemma. I'll accomplish this via utilizing the rift between the 'Ruler and the Ruled'. I don't plan for FC, or any large expansion for around a year or so. Depends on speed, and how much exploring we do.


That answer your three questions?

- Thanks for Reading, Sham

 

[Sigma]

Excellent. Those certainly answer the questions, though raising new points.

while also introducing some new concepts associated with them

These are your quirks you mention later on? If not, please elaborate.

As lithovores who eat fuels such as "oil" (I assume crude oil), this strikes me that they will soon run out of fossil fuels. Even a fuel rich planet has finite resources. And if their own fauna are spouting fire, that merely increases the rate of consumption. I don't see how a large population of such creatures is sustainable.

My suggestion would be to make such fossil fuels like the caviar or foie gras of human cuisine while they make do with other sources of energy. For example, slow absorption of heat as a means of constant developmental growth. That way, if they're somewhere hot, they are slowly nourished by the same sort of combustible energy. That resolves the implausible sustainability of pure fossil fuel consumption.

matabolisim

Metabolism.

A raiken with poor scales is as ridiculed as an american with crooked teeth.

I don't believe we're allowed to make IRL references since all wiki entries are In-Character.

Finally, I would suggest adding in a section about their religious and societal morality. An overview with a link, as Ira said, to a more detailed page on their psychology. Currently, the only mention of slaves is in regard to the Dralu, which leads one to believe it's nothing major. An overview section on their psychology would be able to tell us what their basic beliefs, as a society, are. Details can go on a separate page.

 

[Ira]

Sigma kind sir, you are mistaken. My post was not intended for you, but for a qualified member of the NTSE in an effort to give them some kind of gravity when they view the article for approval.

 

[Sham]

Sigma Answers in Respect to Order...

- Yes, Concepts = Quirks

- Lithovores also eat stone and metals. However, in the interest of keeping this on task, the problem is already solved with Oushino. (Which will be in the next submission set, in a quick sentence, the plants are making oil.)

- Instead of pointing out Spelling Errors, you could fix them. (Already fixed it though)

- Reference Deleted (Fixed)

- In the interest of keeping this on topic, those are culture issues, which in turn will be submitted as a page of its own in the next set. It will be done, but not at this moment.

- Additional -
- There is a small section on religion.

The Raiken accepted this, under the condition that the Whirlim serve in the Alliance.

The Whirlim accepted, and the Raiken immediately began utilizing the Whirlim's talents, a huge advantage for the Alliance.

 

[Sigma]

Instead of pointing out Spelling Errors, you could fix them. (Already fixed it though)

No, I could not. As a common courtesy, I do not edit other people's articles unless they are 1) bound for/part of 4th Fleet, 2) the author is unknown or unavailable or 3) I have permission to do so. It would be rude of me to edit your wiki article without permission.

I still believe you should make more obvious reference to their culture to emphasize key points but, your decision.

 

[Wes]

Admin note on typo fixes: I edit people's posts and articles every day to correct those sort of things, but you don't have to be an admin to help with someone's pages, that's something everybody should do. That said, it's still the article creator's job to make the article polished enough to be approved, which means fixing errors. I don't want to encourage people to be lazy and rely on other members to fix their pages.

Conclusion: It is courteous, not rude, to edit articles to fix spelling and grammar errors and I encourage all members to do so regardless of the page author.​

Further posts in this topic should be about the submission itself; comments about the above statement will be considered off-topic and removed.

 

[Wes]

Sigma kind sir, you are mistaken. My post was not intended for you, but for a qualified member of the NTSE in an effort to give them some kind of gravity when they view the article for approval.

Because we share a common RP setting, all Star Army members have the guaranteed right (see: player rights) to comment on all NTSE submissions. What this means is that all posts in this thread are valid and should be responded to.

 

[Ira]

I'm still waiting for an answer from Sham. You, Ira, are not Sham. What satisfies you does not do for me.

And so I was responding and pointing out an invalid post.

 

[Sham]

Can you two, take any and all arguing out of here? Keep focus on what this thread is for.

 

[CadetNewb]

I've been called to weigh in on this article, however, considering what I see here in the thread, I will start my post with it being off-topic and then move on-topic.

Though Sigma comes off as abrasive here in the NTSE, his concerns, like any other person's, are valid and worth considering at the very least. To act on them or not, judging the articles and so forth all naturally fall on NTSE Mods. Despite this discrepancy between words and power, just because someone isn't an NTSE Mod, does not make their viewpoints, feedback and criticisms worthless, which I ask you to keep in mind Ira.

I'm not happy with either of you in regards to this specific squabble.

Moving on.

*****

Looking at the Raiken, I will first focus on the technical matters before talking about my own personal opinion on them.

The article itself just barely has enough content to get by and be approved. Yes, the basics are there, but not elaborated on in detail to further explain the nuances and complexities behind the numerous different oddities the Raiken have. Considering their differences and quirks are one of their selling points that you made Sham, this hurts the article's and species' own unique 'taste'. It hurts the whole point that was made.

Going on, I find the template used for the article to be horrible. It's only with a bit of digging that I realize that this is the same template that was previously used for another species, which I should have caught back then but didn't due to sitting that one out. Though I made that mistake then, I won't make it here again in the same capacity - there's better to choose from Shammy. The one Exhack made for his Iromakuanhe is much better - absolutely superb I feel - even though the namespace it resides in is now dated. This template he used separates history, culture and so forth into their own respective articles, allowing for far more detail and flavor to the species and faction as a whole.

However, as I said before, this article technically passes all the requirements needed for approval. As someone else pointed out to me however, I'm "used to Ferrari's, while this is a Honda Civic" in regards to articles - this, I am very aware of and have taken into account. Regardless, this leads me to my own Personal Opinion on the species.

I'm very, very, VERY leery of this.

The reason why is that I honestly don't know if you have any staying power in regards to the Raiken Shammy. Let me use a puppy as an allegory; you want this puppy. You want this puppy very, very badly and worked for it for a long time. But will you feed this puppy all the time? Will you take this puppy on walks? And, will you pick up its flaming atomic shits which is throwing radioactive, carcinogenic dust everywhere as it burns? I've seen you come here Shammy, wait until you turned 16 to re-join the site. Saw you branch out and participate on SARP, even as you worked on this in the background.

And that is why I believe you should have a chance - you've worked pretty long and hard, earning this shot with the Raiken despite my very wary gut feelings towards them.

In my opinion as an NTSE Mod, I feel this article should be approved, with improvements and cleanup prior to that being highly recommended.

In all honesty, and now that I think of it, I have the feeling that no one mod should ever approve a species. We should all weigh in if possible.

 

[Gardener in the dark]

Some of what makes the Raiken unique

This was separated out of the main article, by sham, when someone else recommended he do that for clarity. I don't recall who. So Cadet Newb, here's some more of those details.

I don't know what happened to the details on governance and the like that I remember sham writing.

 

[CadetNewb]

My fault for missing the link somehow - I now fear I am blind.

Despite that, I still stand by what I've said. The article would be much better if these biological traits and properties were included in the species page. The history and culture are better moved out of this and into their own pages, further fleshing them out in detail as Sham has time to get it. Right now, this is all about the species itself in regards to biology and such. Not what they did in their past, their art, or clothing.

 

[Sigma]

Reading the physiology page, I find I must re-iterate my initial concerns with even stronger emphasis.

Avoid physiologically unbalanced species... avoid... having absolutely no weaknesses, or negligible weaknesses that don't really bother them too much

Raiken Armour is tank AR 2

Not sure if this means 2 SP (ADR) or Tier 2 ADR, 10 SP. Either way, rather troubling. And yet they are as fast as humans. I fail to see any major weakness or flaw that compensates for such physical boosts. Smells overpowered.

Reproductive cycle makes no mention of how long gestation or maturation periods last.

 

[CadetNewb]

This submission has been sitting a while - I'm willing to pick it up and do the review myself, but what's the progress on the article? I don't see any changes myself.