Regarding SAoY Awards I've Created

[raz]

Greetings. I always love it when people engage with my awesome contributions to the Star Army setting. Here is some guidance and then a question in the end.

As a further note: I am not here to talk about anything specific (unless you want to talk about how cool my plots are ), but rather to inform the community about the details of my creations in a void. Importantly: I was asked by several members to make this post.

The Order of the Blazing Sun is akin to the Medal of Honor. It is given for extraordinary gallantry, which has a very high bar in this space future setting. The scope and scale of action this is awarded for is supposed to be widely impactful. One soldier against odds explicitly or implicitly in the hundreds or even thousands. It shouldn't be awarded specifically for life saving (which is covered by the Combat Livesaver Award). It is also an individual award. This means that multiple soldiers participating in a single part of an engagement should not receive it en masse; if they all deserve the same award for what they did at the same time then their individual actions were not extraordinary enough to warrant an Order of the Blazing Sun. This award should not be handed out like candy. And, if I'm being very honest, it really shouldn't be given to NPCs unless there is an overriding narrative value to doing so.

The Red Tessen is akin to a Silver Star. It is awarded for gallantry in service beyond what the Star Army's Combat Award would call for. Multiple soldiers who are part of a single engagement might all qualify for one, and such situations have happened in the past. Still shouldn't be handed out like candy, but isn't so rare as to be unobtanium. While it isn't as rare as the Blazing Sun, being awarded a Red Tessen singles out the recipient as part of a very exclusive combat fellowship made up of the Star Army's best soldiers.

The Star Army Unit Citation is an award for collective efforts. These efforts might include one soldier getting a Blazing Sun and a handful getting a Red Tessen or Combat Livesaver in addition to the Unit Citation. This is an appropriate award for mass gallantry in battle.

During the Unit Citation's approval process, Andrew reminded me that I should be specific about how it is awarded. And very amusingly, I was thinking this past Saturday and Sunday about his words and wondering if I ought to update the Blazing Sun and Red Tessen have more extensive awarding standards (what a coincidence!). They were introduced a long time ago when Wes had a lot of time to dedicate, so "Yui's approval" was a sufficiently high bar.

So the question: Would anyone have a problem with me correcting my awards to more contemporary detail and standards?

 

[HarperMadi]

Given the intent behind the creation I don't see any conflict, assuming nobody who already has these loses them due to the change. (Cue shrug)

Seems reasonable.

 

[demibear]

Likely would have to go through NTSE or Wes' approval, but no issues here. Doooo it!

Might be reason for a Distinguished Service Cross/Navy Cross type medal.

 

[raz]

Likely would have to go through NTSE

That would be the plan. Just checking in first as well as providing context.

 

[Wes]

My ship charged head on through a fleet of thousands of Mishhu ships after my players boarded a Mishhuvurthyar ship to steal its power plant and bring it to the Wakaba, saving thousands of stranded crew members of the YSS Wakaba from certain doom. It wasn't handed out like candy. Furthermore it was awarded IC on the recommendation of the Empress and I find it distasteful that you are lecturing me on what the ruler of the Star Empire can and cannot award to people.

I'm trying to avoid overreacting here but if every time this award is awarded it has to meet your personal approval it may be more trouble than it's worth and I will simply have to replace it with something else that can be used by GMs without spawning whatever this thread is.

 

[raz]

Well, Wes, I didn't actually see anything about these awards in connection with your plot. So I'm not sure what your reaction's about exactly.

Not to get into specifics, as I said in the opener, but I saw an award recommendation thread and was simultaneously asked by a couple of people about these awards and their nature.

 

[HarperMadi]

I didn't think I saw him saying anything about personal approval, I straight up thought this was just a change of standards or a clarification of something.

 

[iaincarter]

Eh, the timing is highly coincidental as it comes less than 24 hours after Wes' plot the YSS Resurgence involved the crew of the ship being awarded the Order of the Blazing Sun en masse by the Empress and Raz's points on that award almost exactly tear apart Wes' reasoning and implementation of said award. From a certain point of view given the timing and language used, it could easily appear that this thread was created to personally attack Wes' actions, and the info on the other awards was included to disguise the nature of the attack.

Please note that I'm not saying that this is the case, merely pointing out that it could easily be construed as such.

 

[HarperMadi]

Which makes sense since I only vaguely follow the Resurgence and treat its main actions and plot points as the kind of loosely detached "here's this cool ship somewhere else in the fleet going forth and doing great things" bit, so I didn't see it. Does make sense the way this whole thing could get a little wild. So...

 

[raz]

I've already cleared this up with Wes privately, and understand our misunderstanding.

I'll probably update the awards based on the positive OOC feedback here to my question (why I solicited such instead of just doing it). This won't only be about the clarity of IC requirements and OOC notes for guidance but to add a history section because that's an important new standard for wiki articles.

 

[Fred]

I remember that, in the original Miharu plot outline, I set out to have the plotship do things that in the end would allow some to earn Yui's Blood Medallion. I was absent during the epilogue of that plot, so Doshii Jun carried out the award ceremony. My understanding was that the longest-participating members got the blood medallion, and then the next best steps were the Order of the Blazing Sun and then the Red Tessen.

I'm a little fuzzy on what gallantry means so far as the military is concerned, since in my eyes its more or less synonymous for gentlemanly behavior (opening doors for ladies, easing them into their seats, walking down stairs first so that you can cushion their fall if they stumble).

So, I'm going to ask, to round out the context I seem to be lacking probably due to language barrier, if the objective of a plot would be to earn said medal, can an example be provided on what should be done or set up to reach a credible medal-giving outcome?

 

[Soban]

The millitary version of gallantry is much more putting your ass on the line. Not sure if that helps.

So, I'm going to ask, to round out the context I seem to be lacking probably due to language barrier, if the objective of a plot would be to earn said medal, can an example be provided on what should be done or set up to reach a credible medal-giving outcome?

I've specifically written an action to get one of my characters the OBS so I can speak to this. I paralleled it to the Medal of Honor. In Kuvexian War Letters Home, I used the style and inspiration from Medal of Homor citations to write the citation that concludes the story. (Admittedly, I kinda went over the top a bit.) What I would suggest if you wanted to set up a situation like that is to read through Medal of Honor or Victoria Cross citations and consider the factors and dire situation they were in and what actions they chose to take. Then put them in an analogous sort of dire situation. For KWLH, I wanted to also tell the story of the battle she won it in, so it's a good deal longer than most citations of the stort.

 

[raz]

I remember that, in the original Miharu plot outline, I set out to have the plotship do things that in the end would allow some to earn Yui's Blood Medallion. I was absent during the epilogue of that plot, so Doshii Jun carried out the award ceremony. My understanding was that the longest-participating members got the blood medallion, and then the next best steps were the Order of the Blazing Sun and then the Red Tessen.

While I do not precisely remember the exact details of Miharu's climactic fight because it's been a very long time, I do remember that the Blazing Sun was awarded appropriately in your plot rather than simply for in-character tenure. Simple tenure wouldn't have made sense anyway, because while it's the second award in the stack, Blazing Sun is specifically the highest combat recognition. Yui's Blood Medallion is higher in precedence, but can be given out by the Mistress-Taisho as a special recognition for anything she feels is worthy of her accolade.

When I wrote the Blazing Sun and Red Tessen, I didn't copy but heavily utilized the available Medal of Honor text from wikipedia. When you search for MoH citations today, you'll find that the requirements are somewhat different and are vastly more detailed. Chalk it up to a couple decades of wikipedia editors getting better sources, I guess. For this reason, as I said above, I was recently thinking about updating the awards anyway.

There is an OOC element to awarding anything, of course. As a GM, you want to give neither the Blazing Sun nor Red Tessen to players for things they might do again on the next mission. If players get a Blazing Sun for repelling enemy boarders then it sets them up for disappointment when the exact same kind of fight happens again two years later. Tied into this, too, is the fact that most of the Star Army is made up of superhuman supersoldier Nekovalkyrja bioweapons. GMs should understand this and take it into account. Your neko fighting against another evilNeko isn't sufficient to get a Blazing Sun, nor is facing down a single (or squad of) Advanced-Type Mishhu/Kuvexians/enemies.

So, I'm going to ask, to round out the context I seem to be lacking probably due to language barrier, if the objective of a plot would be to earn said medal, can an example be provided on what should be done or set up to reach a credible medal-giving outcome?

Since I'm just kind of expounding, I'll use this question as an opportunity to hone in on the crux of things. Unfortunately, the answer depends a lot on circumstances and the plot. As I said just last paragraph, the plot's tempo really matters. We can, however, look at the limited roleplayed examples of the Blazing Sun.

On the Miharu, the players faced down actual Mishhu Dark Ones. They had their minds warped during melee with leaders of the Mishhuvurthyar and the combat they engaged in ostensibly saved the entire Star Empire. And they did it without support behind them. Not everyone on the Miharu got one, and Doshii only gave it to specific characters that did specific things warranting its award.

For the Kaiyo, my character Aiko was recommended for a Blazing Sun by the GM for fighting against hundreds of foes during her capture by Kuvexians, which further served to utterly destroy the morale of the Interstellar Kingdom of Kuvexia. It wasn't quite PNUgen's Project Sweetheart against an enemy but it was pretty close. Later, Aiko singlehandedly destroyed an entire Iori-class sized Kuvexian space station at Glimmergold, and leaps headlong into Mishhu and Kuvexian squads whenever she gets the chance, but has not been recommended for another Blazing Sun because the other situations are just another day at work in the Star Army.

So in both of the examples above, what's really important is that the Blazing Sun was given for combat situations that the characters would likely never find themselves in again that further resulted in positive results reaching far beyond the immediate tactical situation of themselves or their fellow soldiers. Context matters, both IC and from an OOC perspective. The Blazing Sun is supposed to be difficult to obtain and have a very high bar for its award.

In 99.999% of cases, the Red Tessen is a better award to give characters for being really badass in combat. As the creator of several awards, it's actually my favorite out of all of them. I think players should generally view receiving it as a huge milestone in their characters' careers. A lot of people do not seem to realize that the Red Tessen isn't simply a ribbon but an actual crimson colored tessen given to the recipient, with the ribbon existing because carrying around a trinket all the time is highly impractical (see: original submission thread). This is the one people should be reaching for.

It's kind of silly when NPCs get high awards, in my opinion. Obviously, Miharu sprites or Wes' most played NPCs are an exception (because they're essentially player characters) but it's best to keep extreme recognition to player characters. I also really hugely disagree with the Blazing Sun being awarded for solo RP. Real life gallantry awards are given for "conspicuous" — i.e. highly visible, easily seen — bravery and Star Army is at its heart a roleplaying community, so I'm of the belief that awards (not just these) should generally happen as a result of plot RP where player characters interact with other player characters.

I think I answered Fred's question and beyond that have written quite enough. But having a discussion about it is helpful for when I do make revisions, so thanks for the query.

 

[raz]

What I would suggest if you wanted to set up a situation like that is to read through Medal of Honor or Victoria Cross citations and consider the factors and dire situation they were in and what actions they chose to take. Then put them in an analogous sort of dire situation.

Sorry I missed this in my answer to Fred, but I do not think that is correct. To repeat something written in the previous post, "the Star Army is made up of superhuman supersoldier Nekovalkyrja bioweapons. GMs should understand this and take it into account. Your neko fighting against another evilNeko isn't sufficient to get a Blazing Sun, nor is facing down a single (or squad of) Advanced-Type Mishhu/Kuvexians/enemies."

Star Army soldiers, frankly, regularly engage in combat situations so extreme as to make the most outstanding real life examples of heroism look tame. So it'd be more accurate to advise: Take an analogous situation and then dial it up to 11 (or 20).

 

[HarperMadi]

I mean, that may have been true a few years ago, and we still have a lot of Nekos. But most of our enemy factions have weapons and equipment that make Nekos kinda no better than modern soldiers. Moreover, we're starting to see a lot of what players are left play other species, with different racial strengths and weaknesses.

So yeah. Sure. Maybe 80ish percent of background characters are Nekos in this case. But player characters? Mostly minority species played by people with little to no actual military training or experience to draw on. The fact that these are the guys doing the cool stuff and surviving? Maybe you don't need to tone it up. Not anymore.

 

[raz]

But most of our enemy factions have weapons and equipment that make Nekos kinda no better than modern soldiers.

That hasn't been my experience nor the experience I've read on others' plots. The sci-fi nature of the setting's insanely powerful weapons and physics-warping technologies simply make our stories involve speculative tactics that are adapted to extreme sci-fi circumstances. Contrasted with a setting like 40k where "everyone fights like it's like WW1 with chainsaw swords because all the crazy tech cancels each other out!" is used as an excuse.

Maybe 80ish percent of background characters are Nekos in this case. But player characters? Mostly minority species

Taking a quick look at the plots listed as active on the wiki's Star Army sidebar — Resurgence, Wakaba, Hinomaru Sunrises, and Kaiyo — this isn't accurate. As the Star Army has always been, plots have approximately half-and-half Neko and non-Neko player characters with a slight favor to Nekovalkyrja, with most of the non-Neko these days being militarized Minkans (which upgrades normal people to Neko levels).

It's not really narratively engaging to ignore the setting's sci-fi considerations and make fictional heroism more mundane because non-Neko exist. In fact, two Blazing Sun bearers named Kai Nakamura and Rolf Eastwood both earned theirs in civilian bodies before Minkan military upgrades were ever a thing, so I don't think the elevated bar has ever been a problem.

But I think we're sort of straying from the point now. Fred's question provided good discussion but I think that's sufficient from my end.

 

[HarperMadi]

Agreed. I'll stick to collaborative storytelling. Maybe I do something awesome. Maybe I don't. Long as your clarifications don't make a big effective change that makes even the site owner wonder if it's worth it to keep the awards, it's not really my place to care. I'm sure I'll have some better information later on, but my husband made dinner.

 

[raz]

Long as your clarifications don't make a big effective change

I mean, nothing will get changed, only have the way it's always been made more clear on the wiki. Things will simply be brought to the levels of detail expected from current wiki articles.

Not sure why notes from the guy who made something might upset anyone. My posts are pretty much helpful "here's how to do it right, take it or leave it" statements.

 

[HarperMadi]

My posts are pretty much helpful "here's how to do it right, take it or leave it" statements.

I mean... If you want to call it that. I'm not sure if you've realized the level of diplomatic hostility you put off in how you word things. I know how difficult it can be to read tone, and more how prior interactions can affect how we read into it.

Perhaps it would help you avoid a lot of this with a less unyielding attitude, an offering of potential solutions and a willingness to actually consider what others say to you. You're a skilled debater, but an idea can flex without breaking down. The GM isn't the player's enemy.

 

[Ametheliana]

How did this go from everyone agreeing to the clarifications to everyone attacking it? Is it because of the misunderstanding about the Resurgence? It just feels like arguing for the sake.