Reintroducing the 8 on tier weapon rule.

[Alex Hart]

I'd suggest having NTSE mods help with the damage calculations, rather than putting that burden on content creators. If you're having trouble, you can just go to your nearest mod to help you out with it.

 

[club24]

i agree with Alex, it's like working in any industry the pros should be able to give help to the newbies and while i personally haven't had an issue with drv3 I don't make carriers and dreadnoughts yet, that being said I generally take the approach of sticking to middle ground in terms of abilities and just give it a couple of specialist factors.

from everything i've seen drv3 was intended to be a basic guide for creation as well as the method for gm's to figure out damage in their rp as opposed to rolling the three black die and hitting nat 20 three times in a row.

 

[Ametheliana]

When we had it before, I helped out a lot in getting the numbers right. I wish I could find the examples of the charts I began making, but I would delete them after making them D:

 

[Legix]

When we had it before, I helped out a lot in getting the numbers right. I wish I could find the examples of the charts I began making, but I would delete them after making them D:

This is why I've never had issues while working with the NTSE.

Communication.

DRv3 doesn't cause problems for creators willing to talk and ask for help. It looks daunting (just like most things in SARP like creating a character did until a bit ago), but isn't hard to figure out or work with once you get some help or have someone to speak to.

 

[FrostJaeger]

This is why I've never had issues while working with the NTSE.

Communication.

DRv3 doesn't cause problems for creators willing to talk and ask for help. It looks daunting (just like most things in SARP like creating a character did until a bit ago), but isn't hard to figure out or work with once you get some help or have someone to speak to.

Speaking of help, I made a DRv3 calculator a little over a year ago. Much to my surprise, the link in the thread still works - though the calculator’s kind of bare-bones... >.<

 

[Kyle]

This is why I've never had issues while working with the NTSE.

Communication.

DRv3 doesn't cause problems for creators willing to talk and ask for help. It looks daunting (just like most things in SARP like creating a character did until a bit ago), but isn't hard to figure out or work with once you get some help or have someone to speak to.

Yup.

When I came back from my hiatus and saw that the system had changed, I went and asked some of the NTSE mods for help in understanding it, now for the most part I know how it works and don't really have an issue

Also, Frost, put some meat on those bones please

 

[Zack]

Just having any guideline works as far as improving the NTSE, and we might as well include the 8tier rule since it is going to be unofficially enforced anyways from the looks of things. The actual number itself doesn’t matter as much as just having a consistent guideline.

And something to consider, USO players make more than 20x the number of submissions to the NTSE than Nepland. So naturally we go through the NTSE a lot more, and have a lot more players who hate the experiance. Usually I get complaints the moment they start talking to NTSE mods in Discord.


I think the end goal would be to introduce a bunch of high level rules for defining what is acceptable and then hide them behind some curated starship templates. IE if you wanted to make a battleship you’d just go get the battleship template and have values for DR / speed / weapons already plugged in.

 

[club24]

ok, even I have limits and USO players making more than nepland doesnt mean anything in this context like, at all, and as much as you probably aren't don't count me among that number as for complaints I may as well point out it's only really been uso players having issues which you can take how you like, i do however agree that the templates could definitely use an update to assist in creation of content so lets focus on that instead of trying to wave around a number of subs in an online, fictional setting

 

[Zack]

If you use a road 20 times a day you’re going to complain about the pothole a lot more than someone who only drives on the road once.

We’ve got a lot of the old issues with SARP squared away now. Right now the biggest problem we have with the site is the NTSE.

 

[club24]

aaaaaaaaand if you have a complaint, please use the official complaints box, not this thread. this im fairly certain is how at least half of the recent posts in this one have started. it doesnt matter if you're right or wrong about it but the one agreed upon detail is that here is not the place and it would help your cause a lot more if you at least did that and stopped annoying others who are just here to discuss, as the name suggests, the 8 weapons on tier rule thingo

 

[Fred]

This is kind of getting bogged down, so - for your information - here's the tally of how I've perceived the people have reacted so far on this issue. I'm indulging Zack's everyone would think that would suck argument. Also, this "he said, she said" thing is getting tiresome.

In favor:

Ethereal​

Ametheliana​

Alex Hart​

Neutral:

Rizzo​

Club24​

Soban​

Arbitrated​

Wes​

Kyle​

Fred​

Against:

Zack​

Legix​

Gunhand​

So, there are a lot of people that appear ambivalent, are along to brainstorm but haven't shown that they feel strongly on the issue (myself included) and seem content with the current state of things. There aren't much people that are obviously for or against reinstating it besides a few.

I feel this topic has largely run its course. Arguing over it appears redundant. I don't really want to respond to any of Zack's baiting because I haven't the time to waste on it, and I've already made my views clear on the matter. I suggest you focus on that: what would you like and what you want in relation to the submission guideline that means to be reinstated in some shape or form.

Because I haven't seen any article proposed for it and I can guarantee you it won't be in the DRv3 page proper. It doesn't belong there.

 

[Zack]

I’m for 8 tier, but I also don’t want people to think that is going to solve problems by itself.

 

[Wes]

OK, I'll make a call as admin:

-As a rule of thumb, warships may have a max of 8 of on-tier weapons and a max of 10 tier equivalent weapon (TEW) groups. For example if you have the maximum of 8 on-tier weapons you can also have 4 weapons of the tier below, which are valued as half as many TEW points per tier lower. Ships with more weapons than the recommended maximum might not be approved as they could be considered overpowered for our setting.

Thanks for the feedback everyone.

 

[Fred]

I'll reserve judgment. I'm baffled, but you made a call and I can respect that.

What I'll add is related:
Please do not add Wes' above bit to the DRv3 article itself. It doesn't belong there! Try submission rules, or put it on the ship template itself... but not in the DRv3 article, please.

 

[Alex Hart]

I’m not quite sure how this would work, and would like a guide of some sort.

10 extra weapons seems slightly excessive, especially if tier equivalent. You’d be able to add 20 extra weapons 1 tier below your ship tier.

 

[Wes]

It's not 10 extra weapons, it's the equivalent of 2 extra weapons, but you can only use those extra 2 if they're below the tier of your ship.

The idea is to encourage point defense.

 

[Alex Hart]

Ohhhh ok.

 

[Syaoran]

I'm going to be honest, I skimmed through this and got bored mid way through so I don't know if this was already said, but this thread has some consequences to it so I will say this.

DRV3 was not supposed to be rules for what is and isn't allowed on a ship. That was a compromise made in it's conception. If you want to make rules for things like weapon limits, why not just make a submission for "Rules for building ships" that out lines what is allowed on civilian and military ships?

 

[Kyle]

@Syaoran has the right of it, I feel writing an article is a better idea than to slap on a rule to something that wasn't originally supposed to have em.

 

[Zack]

This should go either on the DRv3 page, or on the submission review template. It doesn’t make sense to have it anywhere else.

Edit: actually, it would make sense to put it on the starship template. Curated ship templates with pre-approved stats are probably the way to go in the future.