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Approved Submission Shintoism

Immortal Cyan

Immortal Cyan

The Cyan Neko
Submission Type: Religion
Submission URL: https://wiki.stararmy.com/doku.php?id=wip:religion:shintoism

Faction: Yamatai
FM Approved Yet? (Yes/No; Who, When) No
Faction requires art? (Yes/No) No

For Reviewers:
Contains Unapproved Sub-Articles? (Yes/No) Yes, linked here.
Contains New art? (Yes/No) No
Previously Submitted? (Yes/No; explain reason if rejected) No

Notes:
This submission is an effort to define religion within Yamatai. While Yamatai is generally atheistic, it is important to codify the various belief systems that may be present for the purposes of character development and better RP.
 
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I really like this. Other then the fact that Ketsurui Chiharu's been elevated to the status of a goddess and the fact Yamatai treats their Empresses the same way .. religion has never been touched upon to this extent. I like this idea quite a bit and it should offer our more dedicated players to add additional fluff to their characters.

Though this is just personal preference, I would like to see some small descriptions added to the public worship steps. Like, what they do and what actions follow during this procedure.

Other then that, I approve of this either way, you can totally add that in afterwards. Let me just ping Wes.

@Wes

An article requiring the approval and Yes/No of the Yamatai GM/FM is needed.
 
Cool thing! My oldest characters are all basically Yamataian traditionalists who have carried the Shinto torch without defining it. Good on you for making an article so that more people hop on the weeb wagon :>

While some kami are indeed honored ancestors, not all kami are. And some ancestors aren't kami, they're just ancestors. It's a pretty amorphous term that can't be translated directly from Japanese, and identifies a wide range of spirits attributed to both animate and inanimate objects or concepts. The submitted article even suggests such a distinction through the fact that some of the kami you created aren't any sort of ancestor that existed (Hinata, Ayaka, Haru, Yumiko). So this line should probably be changed:
It is a spiritualist religion that involves the worship of ancestors (“kami”)
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to just say "involves the worship of 'kami.'"
 
If the Empress is the only "living kami", what about former Emperors and Empresses that still live after their tenure as such? Yui is an example of this.

I also wonder if warships associated with them are holy. the YSS Yui had reports of a ghost of Chiharu, and it and the SRSS Yggdrasill were involved with turning the ghost into her youngest daughter/partial ST backup, if memory serves. Is the YSS Yui considered holy?
 
Toshiro said:
If the Empress is the only "living kami", what about former Emperors and Empresses that still live after their tenure as such? Yui is an example of this.

I also wonder if warships associated with them are holy. the YSS Yui had reports of a ghost of Chiharu, and it and the SRSS Yggdrasill were involved with turning the ghost into her youngest daughter/partial ST backup, if memory serves. Is the YSS Yui considered holy?
Click to expand...

Thank you for pointing out this oversight. It's definitely something that I missed, and I likely would not have realized it without your assistance.

I think it might be safe to assume that former Emperors/Empresses retain their status as "living kami" even after their tenure. It would make little sense for them to suddenly lose their divinity after stepping down from their position. However, since most (or all) of the Emperors/Empresses are of the Ketsurui Clan, it might also be safe to assume that every member of the Ketsurui Clan holds status as a living kami.

Just in general, what does everyone think of giving every member of the Ketsurui Clan divine status?

Raz, I'll also incorporate your suggestion into the article. Thanks for the clarification.
 
I'm not sure about giving every member divine status. Many people are adopted into the clan rather than born into it. Perhaps they have to be born into the clan or "canonized" like catholic saints are for their contributions?
 
The question of "are all Ketsurui divine?" is kind of tricky within the SARP setting, since virtually all members of the clan are created superhuman catgirls and approximately zero of them claim to be divine kami.

I think it'd be up to the adherents of SARP Shintoism to decide which imperial family members to venerate to what degree. Maybe leave it as-is and let individual players decide how to run their characters.
 
Toshiro said:
I'm not sure about giving every member divine status. Many people are adopted into the clan rather than born into it. Perhaps they have to be born into the clan or "canonized" like catholic saints are for their contributions?
Click to expand...

I'm not knowledgeable about the adoption policies of the Ketsurui Clan, but I would assume that in order to be adopted, one would have to be a person of renown and honor. I think that adoption into the Ketsurui Clan could function in much the same way as canonization.

However, if I do decide to give the Ketsurui Clan divine status, I think the dynamic between them and their worshipers could be that of a reluctant God. There is one member of the Ketsurui Clan in particular who dislikes religion. I would not be surprised to find that other members of the Clan also find it distasteful.

I'm not one for making comparisons to WH40k, but if you're familiar with the Imperial Cult, there was a similar dynamic in which the God-Emperor was actively opposed to religion and prosecuted anyone who attempted to worship him as a divine figure. This dynamic could exist in some form within Yamatai. However, I imagine that the Ketsurui Clan would take advantage of it as an easy method to spread nationalism, raise morale, and to encourage political unity. Take this with a grain of salt however, 40k is a ridiculous setting and taking inspiration from there isn't really a good precedent to set for SARP.

EDIT:

I think I like your idea Raz. For instance, I think that extremely devoted Shinto practitioners would take the divinity of the Ketsurui Clan to it's logical extremes. These practitioners would believe that every single member of the Clan is divine. However, casual practitioners would only see the Empress and/or former rulers as divine.
 
One last question: Do you guys think actual IRL Shinto people would be okay with this?
 
As far as I'm aware the basis of Shinto is the worshipping of your ancestors, past and present; to maintain the delicate balance that is their culture by reminding people it exists; and to facilitate a means of profit when times are tough so that the shrines they watch over can be maintained.

It's main field is Japan and even on its home turf it varies like what the suggestions brought up. Some Shinto spiritualist believe solely in kami; whereas some enjoy a looser, less defined form of Shintoism that focuses solely on the worshipping of their dead ancestors and forebears. I'm certain what we did here hasn't stepped in the territory of the uncanny valley.

What we did here is just add a bit of SARP flavor in the form of the deceased Ketsurui Chiharu as a person elevated to godhood and other miscellaneous fluff related to the worshipping of our ancestors. The rest is standard fare.
 
Just noticed some post-approval edits were made. Ayame should not be considered a living kami because she is dead (committed suicide/traitor samurai claim to have killed her. what is the truth?). Additionally—and no disrespect to Andrew intended here—but I don't think many would consider Katsuko on par with Himiko/Yui/Uesu/Yuumi given her history.

Idk, something to consider.
Wes said:
One last question: Do you guys think actual IRL Shinto people would be okay with this?
Click to expand...
Shinto is only practiced by Japanese people and the animist spirits/kami that Shinto practitioners believe in further only exist on the Japanese islands, too. Like, there are no kami in America or Europe or Africa. It's pretty hard to say without the input of a Japanese person. Someone might think it's disrespectful, but that could be a matter of personality more than anything.
 
I was going to post about those edits after they were complete. But if you want to know now, I incorporated you and Toshiro's feedback into the edits. If anything, this probably got approved a little too fast. I'm just now getting the chance to make these changes.

@Talarn, @Wes
 
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Toshiro said:
Many people in the SAoY don't have ancestors at all.
Click to expand...
This is why the distinction between kami and "ancestors" is important. Some kami are ancestors who embody virtues and themes, but most are just animistic spirits that make up the universe. Like rocks and trees and the wind. So it can be a fitting belief system for those without ancestors.
 
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