Soul Transfers, Backups, Clones, and Parasites questions

[icekatze]

hi hi

On the off chance that someone is knowledgeable and willing to help out a plebeian like myself, I have a few moderately related questions that I couldn't find the answers to via the search function or the wiki.

1. Although it isn't explicitly stated in the laws of Yamatai, it seems to imply that there are restrictions on making multiple clones of the same individual except potentially for military applications. Is this accurate? I would imagine it would at least be considered uncouth for a political group to make lots of copies of their members in order to change the balance of power in a region.

2. If someone should be declared missing and presumed dead after a two month period and their backup revived, but much later it is found out that the individual is still alive, possibly as a prisoner or some-such, is there a precedent for how the wayward individual is reintegrated, especially with respects to financial institutions and family institutions? The laws that I could find seemed to imply that new persons are granted rights as individuals, but if that is accurate, I am not sure how originality or length of time in society affect those decisions.

3. The information I could find on the Second Mishhuvurthyar War seems to imply that it had devastating consequences, but the information on the wiki regarding the places the war took place does not say much about the rebuilding period or how extensive the damages were. Does anyone have estimates of casualties, civilian, military, or both? Would casualties have ready access to back-ups, or might those have also been damaged such as in the bombardment of Tatiana?

4. Were soul transfer backups targeted by the NMX during the war, either for destruction or capture. If the latter was true, would there have been individuals who destroyed their own backups rather than be revived as a slave? And also, would there be a mechanism for screening backups for Mishhuvurthyar tampering when recovered from war zones?

5. On a bit of a tangent, are there measures in place to combat parasitism, even if only crude implements like auto-self destruct implants for individuals who might be turned against their own side?

If there is someone who can shed some light on the consequences of the war, especially with regards to ordinary citizens, and the way soul transfer backups mitigate or complicate matters; I would be much obliged.

 

[Arbitrated]

I can't answer all of your questions, but I'll answer the ones I know the best at least! ^^

1. Although it isn't explicitly stated in the laws of Yamatai, it seems to imply that there are restrictions on making multiple clones of the same individual except potentially for military applications. Is this accurate? I would imagine it would at least be considered uncouth for a political group to make lots of copies of their members in order to change the balance of power in a region.

Yes, in short. My character Arbitrated was going to serve on the Eucharis for a time while pregnant, and one of the ways I discussed with Wes regarding this was using ST to allow her to "jump" between her original, pregnant body somewhere safe, and a second, temporary body on the Eucharis - Wes said no to that, because Yamatai would prefer to avoid the clutter that would come from cloning a living person.

2. If someone should be declared missing and presumed dead after a two month period and their backup revived, but much later it is found out that the individual is still alive, possibly as a prisoner or some-such, is there a precedent for how the wayward individual is reintegrated, especially with respects to financial institutions and family institutions? The laws that I could find seemed to imply that new persons are granted rights as individuals, but if that is accurate, I am not sure how originality or length of time in society affect those decisions.

This, I've seen to be a bit inconsistent, partially because it's a rare occurrence. Sometimes the "original" person who went missing gets to return to a normal life, with the cloned version dying. Sometimes it's the reverse. Sometimes instead of dying one of them goes off and does stuff elsewhere in SARP.

4. Were soul transfer backups targeted by the NMX during the war, either for destruction or capture. If the latter was true, would there have been individuals who destroyed their own backups rather than be revived as a slave? And also, would there be a mechanism for screening backups for Mishhuvurthyar tampering when recovered from war zones?

Last I remember when I looked at the page for the Soul Savior Pods, which is where the ST data of a ship's crew is almost always stored, any attempted and unauthorized tampering or interaction resulted in the Pod self-destructing.

5. On a bit of a tangent, are there measures in place to combat parasitism, even if only crude implements like auto-self destruct implants for individuals who might be turned against their own side?

Last I checked, Nekos and Minkans were difficult to "hack", but their brains would effectively melt and they'd die if this would happen. Because of how systems in tech like the Mindy work, it'd likely be useless without a living operator.

 

[Alex Hart]

For questions about the 2nd Mishhuvurthyar war, I recommend asking veterans such as @Wes or @Legix though both of them are busy with children at the moment, especially Wes.

 

[Legix]

hi hi

On the off chance that someone is knowledgeable and willing to help out a plebeian like myself, I have a few moderately related questions that I couldn't find the answers to via the search function or the wiki.

1. Although it isn't explicitly stated in the laws of Yamatai, it seems to imply that there are restrictions on making multiple clones of the same individual except potentially for military applications. Is this accurate? I would imagine it would at least be considered uncouth for a political group to make lots of copies of their members in order to change the balance of power in a region.

2. If someone should be declared missing and presumed dead after a two month period and their backup revived, but much later it is found out that the individual is still alive, possibly as a prisoner or some-such, is there a precedent for how the wayward individual is reintegrated, especially with respects to financial institutions and family institutions? The laws that I could find seemed to imply that new persons are granted rights as individuals, but if that is accurate, I am not sure how originality or length of time in society affect those decisions.

3. The information I could find on the Second Mishhuvurthyar War seems to imply that it had devastating consequences, but the information on the wiki regarding the places the war took place does not say much about the rebuilding period or how extensive the damages were. Does anyone have estimates of casualties, civilian, military, or both? Would casualties have ready access to back-ups, or might those have also been damaged such as in the bombardment of Tatiana?

4. Were soul transfer backups targeted by the NMX during the war, either for destruction or capture. If the latter was true, would there have been individuals who destroyed their own backups rather than be revived as a slave? And also, would there be a mechanism for screening backups for Mishhuvurthyar tampering when recovered from war zones?

5. On a bit of a tangent, are there measures in place to combat parasitism, even if only crude implements like auto-self destruct implants for individuals who might be turned against their own side?

If there is someone who can shed some light on the consequences of the war, especially with regards to ordinary citizens, and the way soul transfer backups mitigate or complicate matters; I would be much obliged.

Since I got tagged, I'll try my best to answer this. It should be noted my knowledge on things like the Mishhu Wars, however, are not personal experience but rather what I've dug up from my use + references to the period. You'd be better talking to actual veteran members such as @raz for a direct view.

1. There is and isn't. Accidents happen, after all; this is proven in IC when there was a second Hanoko made by accident (I might be mistaken but I do know it happened with a "high profile" character). Yamatai I don't believe considers it illegal but their views on ST transfers are that cloning the same person likely is viewed as highly immoral unless they gave consent and understood the associated problems of it. It's also far from easily accessible to all but the militaries to produce such numbers that would be able to make a "change in power". You'd be looking at the Nepleslian Star Army (both branches) or the SAoY as being the only ones with the access to the materials and capability to both facilitate the actual cloning as well as ensuring the clones don't go through what would very likely happen: identity crisis.

Unlike traditional cloning, ST Transfers are far deeper. The fact most Yamataians utilize manufactured/bio-synthetic bodies means that no... their clones/ST Back-Ups would be far more similar than what most psychiatric specialists view as logic to support against this. They'd have very much the same fingerprints, same mindset, same memories... everything would be exactly the same due to the machine nature of ST-copies. As a result, most ST clones I can recall that existed at the same point are either dead or became villains at some point. But I do not believe it's illegal; your assumption that it's immoral is very likely and that stigma is probably large enough to avoid people doing it in the first place.

2. No but it has happened. As I stated before, I believe it happened to Hanako? There's a few characters that were confirmed alive after their back-up came and were able to do so. I do not believe the SAoY or any power in the entire setting has a contingency for such a thing, however.

3. The information is too scattered for precision but most damage was dealt within Nepleslia; a lot of it is now mended and repaired as far as IC roleplay has shown. Yamatai has also repaired most damages AFAIK. As for survivors, they'd have had access based on my memory of how the process worked? A Yamatai expert or an ST lore-junkie would be a better person to ask.

However, there definitely were various incidents of ST backups being "damaged". Most of these are not wide-spread but many lost or had their ST status damaged through attacks. I believe I remember reading of two incidents?

4. NMX didn't really have the means to "target" a back-up. This is because back-ups were often made between sorties or even deployments. This meant that the damage to one's mind was lost upon being ST'd as their memories and experience before being "broken" wouldn't have carried on.

I don't believe there was a process for screening them but there was a re-integration of sorts for the few NMX Neko + survivors, IIRC. It was very rare for that to happen though.

5. If there are, I doubt traditional Neko have it. You'd probably be looking at groups like SAINT or the IPG - who dabble with sensitive and classified information - who would generally be worried for that. There are scanners that can detect Mishhu, I'm pretty sure... and from there, it's not impossible to save someone via auto-doc.

As for the overall? War in Yamatai is still seen as something that shouldn't be throwing people into their death. ST copies aren't perfect; they have to be made BEFORE something. Not to mention there's characters (such as mine, Ronin) who opt out of getting an ST back-up made. Even for a nation like Yamatai which has little to no resource issues, throwing away super soldier Neko or things like their PA suits or ships? It's not something they enjoy or plan around. Strategic losses are still preferred as avoidable versus a tactic, even with ST. Someone who died but had an ST back-up nearly a year old might need months of re-briefing or even retraining to make them useful again.

You'd be looking at nations like Nepleslia for where it complicates things, however; effectively the nations without a mastery of it. Places like Nepleslia view ST transfers with a mixed hand because they find cloning to be more efficient and in general doesn't provide the issue of someone going "lol I can just die whenever, it's cool". The implication of ST transfers isn't on those who benefit from it but those who fear that it might make them changed for the worse upon mastering or further implementation of it. Yamatai doesn't mind doing it for its members and it's a fairly well-known cultural norm; Nepleslia on the other hand outright shuns it and reserves it only for select groups/ex-members of Yamatai (such as their Jiyuuian population).

Sorry for the wall of text, but I hope this helps o/

 

[icekatze]

hi hi

Thanks so much for the prompt replies, and I think I have a clearer understanding of how things work.

This, I've seen to be a bit inconsistent, partially because it's a rare occurrence. Sometimes the "original" person who went missing gets to return to a normal life, with the cloned version dying. Sometimes it's the reverse. Sometimes instead of dying one of them goes off and does stuff elsewhere in SARP.

It does seem like the kind of thing that would depend greatly on the nature of the individual going through the identity crisis. I think that might be part of why I found the idea so intriguing.

Last I remember when I looked at the page for the Soul Savior Pods, which is where the ST data of a ship's crew is almost always stored, any attempted and unauthorized tampering or interaction resulted in the Pod self-destructing.

That's good to know. I might have assumed the data would be stored somewhere safe in friendly territory, but having a more recent backup certainly makes the loss of a body less logistically painful.

4. NMX didn't really have the means to "target" a back-up. This is because back-ups were often made between sorties or even deployments. This meant that the damage to one's mind was lost upon being ST'd as their memories and experience before being "broken" wouldn't have carried on.

I think I might have figured out where my misconception stemmed from. When I read some of the wiki entries on the NMX which stated that they put a priority on capturing cloning facilities, I didn't realize that cloning facilities was a bold-faced term and distinctly different from backup facilities (like the ones that all Yamatai cities larger than 5,000 people are required to have). Coming from a background where a transporter clone is considered a clone, you can perhaps understand my mistake.

While the terror of dying probably isn't much lessened with the ability to restart from a backup, I could imagine it lessening the drive for revenge.